It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
-Kujako-
A fake quote to go with the lie about pre-existing conditions.
https://thinkprogress.org/pence-uses...-f3647fe54811/During a Fox & Friends interview on Thursday morning, Vice President Mike Pence was asked to respond to concerns people rightfully have that the latest Trumpcare bill will make it tougher for people with preexisting conditions to obtain and keep health insurance.
“Folks like Jimmy Kimmel, they’re worried about the preexisting condition thing, ’cause this will be up to the governors to decide how the money is dispersed, who gets coverage,” host Ainsley Earhardt said. “Can you guarantee that these governors will make sure that preexisting conditions are covered?”
“Thomas Jefferson said, ‘Government that governs least, governs best,'” Pence said, using a quote that the Thomas Jefferson Foundation says Jefferson never uttered. “I mean the question that people ought to ask is, who do you think will be more responsible to the health care needs in your community? Your governor, your state legislature, or a congressman and a president in a far-off nation’s capital. I mean, this is the concept of federalism upon which our constitution was framed.”
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Phew, for a minute there I thought there was only 20 countries on earth. Good on you for keeping him honest.
you should apply for medicaid, you easily qualify for it....unless you are not in the united states that is..or maybe 1 or 2 states that have such a low threshold
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even if they did not expand it, he should qualify for it at 20k income in most states.....unless giggles....he is in one of those wonderful red states.
but even in those states he would qualify for ACA subsidies and pay as little as 0 for his insurance.
take florida for instance. no medicaid, 20k income.....plans on the ACA start at 59 dollars a month (i bet he spends more then this on his phone)
Estimated monthly premium
$55.12
Deductible
$6,650
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$7,150
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: $350 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $33
Primary doctor: $35
Specialist doctor: $80 Copay after deductible
want lower deductibles
Estimated monthly premium
$73.21
Deductible
$2,000
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$2,000
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: No Charge After Deductible
Generic drugs: No Charge
Primary doctor: No Charge
Specialist doctor: $5
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So which state are you in????
how about texas...
20k income....aca gets you plans starting at 35.00.....
Estimated monthly premium
$35.57
Was: $231.41
Deductible
$6,150
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$6,500
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: $350 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $5
Primary doctor: $25
Specialist doctor: $50 Copay after deductible
_______
want lower deducts
Estimated monthly premium
$72.81
Was: $268.65
Deductible
$500
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$2,350
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: $200 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $5
Primary doctor: $10
Specialist doctor: $30
_________________
Estimated monthly premium
$91.87
Was: $287.71
Deductible
$1,750
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$1,750
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: No Charge After Deductible
Generic drugs: $1
Primary doctor: $1
Specialist doctor: $5
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you should check out https://www.healthcare.gov/
very easy to price out plans without having to fill out much other then age, income, zip code...
Treno any clue to the state you are in, is it NJ?
or because you said your state produces jeff sessions it would be AL?
in AL you would qualify for even more subsidies under the ACA to the point you would pay 0.
Estimated monthly premium
$0.00
Was: $321.44
Deductible
$6,450
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$6,450
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: No Charge After Deductible
Generic drugs: No Charge After Deductible
Primary doctor: No Charge After Deductible
Specialist doctor: No Charge After Deductible
_____________
Lower deductibles?
Blue Cross And Blue Shield Of Alabama · Blue Cross Select Silver, A Multi-State Plan
Estimated monthly premium
$50.58
Was: $414.70
Deductible
$450
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$1,250
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: $275
Generic drugs: $5
Primary doctor: $25
Specialist doctor: $40
Last edited by Zan15; 2017-09-22 at 02:39 AM.
I totally agree, the costs for healthcare are absolutely insane, and it is due to so many different factors. I absolutely want a single payer system, and im a moderate, due to my stance on not liking people profiteering health care. However, i think a lot of people who consider my remarks as heartless or cruel will have to understand that under a single payer system, there WILL be rationing, and that means a lot of people are not going to get treatment, and a large group of those people will be the terminally ill, and probably the morbidly obese.
The rationing argument in the context of your post is horrible. You do realize that rashoning care, when everyone can get care, explicitly means that there are people who don't get care now. Not because of rationing, but because they cannot afford it. If we are not meeting capacity now and meeting capacity will still mean rations, that explicitly means that more people do not get care NOW...
Also, google triage... it's not just a quest in manythril harbor...
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
Not only that, but the state Medicaid Directors are against it as well, urging them to hit the brakes on this legislation.
The Republicans do not care. They don't want to look like inept morons that for seven years bitched and moaned about Obamacare and how if they had the power they would create a much better system. Well now they have complete control of every branch of our government and what did they do? They shit the bed because they had no fucking clue on what to do. So now to save face they are looking to fuck everyone but the fucking rich and insurance companies. In the end though that is all they care about. As long as the corporations and the 1% are happy, they have no problem fucking everyone else over.
Ive got bad news for you. Pre ACA the healthcare insurance industry is largely run by bereaucrats who only think of people as statistics. Dollars and cents as opposed to fleshy breathing humans.
Why you people seem to always be in favor of unaccountable private tyranies ill never know. I just wish you would stop unironically claiming thats freedom.
Yes, but you're not understanding something, right now there is rationing because some people cant afford it, but under a system like single payer that rationing comes based on who the board would deem not worth it, for a lack of a better word. Which is exactly where triage comes in, if you're too far gone, then you probably wont get medical treatment and will probably go to hospice, if they even afford you that. That's just the reality of it, its not a bad thing, if you have terminal cancer, and you virtually have no chance of surviving, why prolong it? resources are finite, and those resources should be spend on the healthy, regardless of age. The obese would also fall into this category, if you're so overweight that you're murdering your own organs, why would we ration valuable healthcare resources to you? Were not going to give you a new heart that you're going to destroy, it would go to someone who is active, and would benefit greatly from it.
I also feel that everyone should be forced to be an organ donor, why take healthy organs to your grave...
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Exactly my point, if you willfully destroy your own body, why would we waste scarce resources on you....
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I mean, if you think a government run program would think of people as statistics you're delusional, where not a populace of 10M, we have 326M individuals in the country, people literally are simply statistics unfortunately.
This is amusing. Why you think this argument only applies to governments and not private tyrannys is beyond me. At least in theory the government is accountable to the voting public. Its not even a theory for insurance companies they ate literally only accountable yo share holders.
As for why you "waste resources", this is a backwards view that can only be viewed from the perspective of people (individuals) who only view humanity as a resource. You cant sit there and argue governments do this while participating in the same bs yourself. It may come as a shock to you but governments across the world triage and by and large those systems function with better healthcare outcomes, no death panels and no arguments over wasted resources. Your view is incredible cynical and not a reflection of reality.
Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2017-09-22 at 02:13 PM.
No, hospitals base their ration on triage, not some board of directors:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage
So, no, you have a deep misunderstanding of how hospitals work.Originally Posted by triage
Your making shit up Arnold. If you think triage comes after review by board of directors, you don't actually know what triage is.Which is exactly where triage comes in, if you're too far gone, then you probably wont get medical treatment and will probably go to hospice, if they even afford you that.
That's not how it works and with single payer, the likelyhood of that obese person knowing their health problems and the cancer patient knowing sooner, has the potential to save both, before major treatment is needed.That's just the reality of it, its not a bad thing, if you have terminal cancer, and you virtually have no chance of surviving, why prolong it? resources are finite, and those resources should be spend on the healthy, regardless of age. The obese would also fall into this category, if you're so overweight that you're murdering your own organs, why would we ration valuable healthcare resources to you? Were not going to give you a new heart that you're going to destroy, it would go to someone who is active, and would benefit greatly from it.
That's fucked up... I'll agree with this, only if you volunteer to be the guy telling grieving families...I also feel that everyone should be forced to be an organ donor, why take healthy organs to your grave...
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
Did i say private insurance companies aren't a shit show? I have actually advocated the opposite, as i am opposed to the profiteering of healthcare. What i do find amusing however is that people seem to think a government run body would be any different, have you ever dealt with the IRS for example? As a veteran, I've dealt with the military healthcare system when i was on active duty, and I've dealt with the VA since becoming a civilian, lets just say i go to my private practice primary physician for a reason. Saying that the body in charge of healthcare would be accountable to the voting populace is ignorant, considering how many government bodies that should, by your logic, be accountable to the voting public, are constantly encompassed by scandals. Do i think the government should run healthcare? absolutely, but be wary of what that means, don't be under the misconception that "big brother" has your back, because on a national level, were all "cogs in the system", no matter how much you think they love you.
Also, if you don't think the US would ration healthcare you're truly delusional, I tore my ACL in the Army and had to wait 11 months for surgery, and don't even talk to me about "feel sick", ever wait 3 weeks for an appointment because you have the flu? Good luck getting that cancer treatment if you're 70, or that new heart if you weigh 550lbs, or that new lung if you're a heavy smoker, and honestly, that's the way it should be.
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I mean, you're conflating immediate care (i.e. emergency triage care) with rationing care. Rationing of care already happens, you cant say that ER triage is the same as patients setting up surgeries. In case you didn't already know, hospitals actually have a board of medicine, who actually decide where their resources are best spent, what gets people are extremely unhealthy into the surgeries they need is the insurance they pay for directly. Obviously, this system works differently in other countries, but there is a reason people cross the Canadian border into the US to get surgeries faster.
No, this is most likely how it will actually go down. I have the pleasure of going out to lunch every month with one of the top healthcare economists in MA, one of professors from college (who is actually quite liberal), and she talks this stuff all of the time. She also believes heavy rationing is not only needed, but will happen, as it should, but again, we will watch it play out here eventually.Your making shit up Arnold. If you think triage comes after review by board of directors, you don't actually know what triage is.
Do you think a person who weighs 400+ lbs looks in the mirror and says "damn, im pretty healthy", probably not. Saying an obese person doesn't know they're in critical danger is laughable. Cancer is a different beast, you could screen negative one week, and be dying a few weeks later.That's not how it works and with single payer, the likelyhood of that obese person knowing their health problems and the cancer patient knowing sooner, has the potential to save both, before major treatment is needed.
Why should it even be a discussion? It should just be reality for everyone.That's fucked up... I'll agree with this, only if you volunteer to be the guy telling grieving families...
Trump WH admits in private "we really aren't sure what the impact will be" and are just obsessed with passing something they can call "repeal and replace".
So clueless Trump doesn't care how many people he kills, it's all about how it looks.
It's funny, they used this line in pubic before, trying to discredit the CBO. Problem is,
a) it failed spectacularly, and
b) they can't use it this time since they didn't give the CBO enough time to grade it anyhow.
So what used to be their line of attack, a line just as stupid as "polls mean nothing", is now purely an admission of ignorance.
OMG!!!!
John McCain is a no on Cassidy-Graham (and still lying about the extensive process the ACA took to passage, it was passed in 2010, not 2009 as McCain claims).
SENATOR JOHN McCAIN ON HEALTH CARE REFORM
Washington, D.C. *– U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ) released the following statement today on health care reform:
“As I have repeatedly stressed, health care reform legislation ought to be the product of regular order in the Senate. Committees of jurisdiction should mark up legislation with input from all committee members, and send their bill to the floor for debate and amendment. That is the only way we might achieve bipartisan consensus on lasting reform, without which a policy that affects one-fifth of our economy and every single American family will be subject to reversal with every change of administration and congressional majority.
“I would consider supporting legislation similar to that offered by my friends Senators Graham and Cassidy were it the product of extensive hearings, debate and amendment. But that has not been the case. Instead, the specter of September 30th budget reconciliation deadline has hung over this entire process.
“We should not be content to pass health care legislation on a party-line basis, as Democrats did when they rammed Obamacare through Congress in 2009. If we do so, our success could be as short-lived as theirs when the political winds shift, as they regularly do. The issue is too important, and too many lives are at risk, for us to leave the American people guessing from one election to the next whether and how they will acquire health insurance. A bill of this impact requires a bipartisan approach.
“Senators Alexander and Murray have been negotiating in good faith to fix some of the problems with Obamacare. But I fear that the prospect of one last attempt at a strictly Republican bill has left the impression that their efforts cannot succeed. I hope they will resume their work should this last attempt at a partisan solution fail.
“I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal. I believe we could do better working together, Republicans and Democrats, and have not yet really tried. Nor could I support it without knowing how much it will cost, how it will effect insurance premiums, and how many people will be helped or hurt by it. Without a full CBO score, which won’t be available by the end of the month, we won’t have reliable answers to any of those questions.
“I take no pleasure in announcing my opposition. Far from it. The bill’s authors are my dear friends, and I think the world of them. I know they are acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what is best for the country. So am I.
“I hope that in the months ahead, we can join with colleagues on both sides of the aisle to arrive at a compromise solution that is acceptable to most of us, and serves the interests of Americans as best we can.”
###
Source: https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public...8-C87E3CCCC4CE
Last edited by paralleluniverse; 2017-09-22 at 06:15 PM.