The nature of Light and Void (audio drama spoilers)

[Lothaeryn]

It's really hard to tell how much of an outlier Xe'ra might be. She certainly doesn't seem much like the Naaru Velen has hung out with before, but that's kind of the thing. Any Naaru we would have hung out with would be ones personally interested in helping us, and who didn't do anything too offensive in the process. So, A'dal is a pretty cool guy, but what if there are a million others out there with their heads shoved up their collective asses just waiting for the conditions of prophecies to be fulfilled before they start doing what they're "meant" to do?

In Legion itself, Odyn was a good example of a Light-user who turns out to be a total self-righteous bastard if you look at his history, who very much did force himself onto others.

We're told this is a war that's been going on since forever, and Xa'atath has been giving us hints that the Naaru may be hiding some details about all the shit that went down before they picked up the Draenei. Xe'ra might just be a little old-fashioned.

This is true, considering Xe'ra was the first and last of the "Prime Naaru" whose lineage lead to O'ros, there is a possibility that there have been countless generations of Naaru between Xe'ra and the Sha'Tari Naaru from BC, and as a result their ideologies have also changed as well.

If the Tears of Elune hint is anything, it is possible that countless cycles of creation have existed, and Naaru are one of the oldest surviving embodiment's of the light still serving in this cosmic war with the void. Maybe Elune really did create the Naaru before time, and Xe'ra still continued her service under mandates that predate this existence, and as such, took more blunt approaches to achieve her goals.

Either case, she and her line are officially dead now. Until more light (no pun intended) is shown upon what they accomplished we wont know what has been hidden until much later.

[KrakHed]

This is true, considering Xe'ra was the first and last of the "Prime Naaru" whose lineage lead to O'ros, there is a possibility that there have been countless generations of Naaru between Xe'ra and the Sha'Tari Naaru from BC, and as a result their ideologies have also changed as well.

If the Tears of Elune hint is anything, it is possible that countless cycles of creation have existed, and Naaru are one of the oldest surviving embodiment's of the light still serving in this cosmic war with the void. Maybe Elune really did create the Naaru before time, and Xe'ra still continued her service under mandates that predate this existence, and as such, took more blunt approaches to achieve her goals.

Either case, she and her line are officially dead now. Until more light (no pun intended) is shown upon what they accomplished we wont know what has been hidden until much later.

One thing I found interesting was Lothraxion's comment that Sargeras and the Legion thought they had already defeated the Light, suggesting that they had fought on a larger scale at an earlier point in time. Because that itself could be a reason why we don't usually see more aggressive or forceful Light entities around. Most of them may have died fighting the Burning Legion, leaving mostly non-confrontational Naaru to press on. Which may be why their favored tactic with the Draenei was just to keep running from world to world, waiting for the optimal time to fight back. They could have simply been the more cautious of their kind in the first place.

[vilememory]

I get the feeling that the Light is very singular goal oriented, and that they only do things one way. Hence the chaining people to follow their train of thought. Hell they might be so single minded to the point of being suicidal, their can be ONLY LIGHT! Creating an imbalance that destroys the universe. For all we know the Light could be this manipulative controlling entity that is insane but refuses to admit that it might be wrong. The Void is fighting to survive, it is also crazy and manipulative but at least it is upfront about it. Oh yeah, totally going to corrupt you and drive you nuts. But you will get so many freaking super powers! And a free makeover!

[KrakHed]

I get the feeling that the Light is very singular goal oriented, and that they only do things one way. Hence the chaining people to follow their train of thought. Hell they might be so single minded to the point of being suicidal, their can be ONLY LIGHT! Creating an imbalance that destroys the universe. For all we know the Light could be this manipulative controlling entity that is insane but refuses to admit that it might be wrong. The Void is fighting to survive, it is also crazy and manipulative but at least it is upfront about it. Oh yeah, totally going to corrupt you and drive you nuts. But you will get so many freaking super powers! And a free makeover!

I've been saying this from the beginning, but I think the Light is just idealistic. It believes in so much in what it feels "should be" that it becomes what "must be", and this keeps them stuck in a box of sorts. The Void is the opposite in that it doesn't even recognize there is a box, except vaguely. Instead of "should be"s and "must be"s, they're swimming in an endless ocean of "why not"s and "may as well"s.

That's why the Void seems more upfront. It doesn't really recognize the basic underlinings of morality. That's why the Void tends to reference some form of self-interest or extended self-interest, rather than appealing to your sense of right and wrong.

[Wyrt]

I want to know why Xe'ra is so radically different from the rest of the naaru we have met. The other naaru had no problem with shadow users, they didn't lightforge people, they didn't force themselves on people, etc.

I feel like we're missing something here.

[Dagoth Ur]

Oh yea. Sorry. Yea im a big proponent of what ppl likrle you say in which both are cosmic forces ect ect.

I was mostly reacting to early page insistence suggedting that was a 100% sincere vision, and suggestions the Light is evil.

I mean a world being consumed in holy fire 8snt a bad thing if you are 100%sure its nothing but life sucking demons.

We van be cautious of divine forces that have done nothing but help while also realize that entities that have done nothing but try to kill us...might not be completely honest.

Like we find out 1 or 2 bad things about light things and so many ppl want to say its just as bad or worse than the thing that has been eating souls and trying to kill us for years

Yea I see what you're saying, a lot of people are over-simplifyng this to "omg Light is evil" which is entirely wrong.

It's more like both Light and Void are children who can't comprehend that our reality is the mix of the two.

How ever you turn it around Light is still safer less destructive force than the Void, but it would be smart to be catiuos even with Light.

[Deleted]

Oh yea. Sorry. Yea im a big proponent of what ppl likrle you say in which both are cosmic forces ect ect.

I was mostly reacting to early page insistence suggedting that was a 100% sincere vision, and suggestions the Light is evil.

I mean a world being consumed in holy fire 8snt a bad thing if you are 100%sure its nothing but life sucking demons.

We van be cautious of divine forces that have done nothing but help while also realize that entities that have done nothing but try to kill us...might not be completely honest.

Like we find out 1 or 2 bad things about light things and so many ppl want to say its just as bad or worse than the thing that has been eating souls and trying to kill us for years

The Light and the Void aren't good nor evil, they just are. That's the point all along. Xe'ra's conception of the Light isn't new in the lore, she is the cosmic embodiment of the Scarlet Crusade.

What we are seeing it's the first time Blizzard defines what we always saw about the Light, that enslavement and purging of "unnatural" are also used on grand cosmical war. A war between Absolute Order and Absolute Chaos and we are the tools.

- - - Updated - - -

No. Time is FASTER in the nether.

Exactly. /10char

[derpkitteh]

this just further shows the player priest's power.

we can balance light and dark within ourselves at the same time. we can even cast the two at the same time.

[Deleted]

So the light is a benevolent dictatorship

[Arrashi]

So the light is a benevolent dictatorship

Benevolent as long as you are obedient and don't ask questions.

[Deleted]

Benevolent as long as you are obedient and don't ask questions.

It just wants whats 'best' for us!!!!!

[KrakHed]

So the light is a benevolent dictatorship

Benevolent as long as you are obedient and don't ask questions.

Not quite. It's more that the Light can be a benevolent dictatorship.

The Light and the Void aren't good nor evil, they just are. That's the point all along. Xe'ra's conception of the Light isn't new in the lore, she is the cosmic embodiment of the Scarlet Crusade.

What we are seeing it's the first time Blizzard defines what we always saw about the Light, that enslavement and purging of "unnatural" are also used on grand cosmical war. A war between Absolute Order and Absolute Chaos and we are the tools.

The way I see it, there can be several different approaches to the Light, and the Light will respond just as well to all of them as long as there is faith. Zealots can wield the Light to destroy their does, even when their faith is fueled by false doctrine. Even Turalyon was guilty of that. It doesn't matter if your reasons are fundamentally wrong, so long as you believe the Light is right and follow what you believe that rightness to be. This here is extremely dangerous, as we've already seen with Odyn and the Scarlet Crusade.

The danger of the Light is that it can be interpreted in so many different ways, and the only constant is that you get more power the less questions you ask.

[Deleted]

The war between the High Heavens and Burning Hells was an everlasting conflict and as such, a stalemate. Attacks on one side would be repaid by counterstrikes; legions of demons and angels were obliterated in the process, but without causing a significant breakthrough.
From the union of angel and demon the nephalem were created. Inarius wanted to eradicate the nephalem or 'first born', whom he eyed as abominations, but it was Lilith who first saw their potential. She realized the nephalem had the potential to become more than both angel and demon, and wanted to harness their power for her own ends.

For a while all seemed right, but eventually both sides of the Conflict were bound to take notice of Sanctuary. It was the Burning Hells which first discovered the realm. They took notice of the mortal inhabitants of Sanctuary and realized its strategic value. Control over Sanctuary and its mortal population could gain the decisive advantage in the Great Conflict. In order not to alert the High Heavens, the forces of Hell opted for the subtle approach. The Prime Evil Mephisto sent his son, Lucion, to the realm, where he established a cult - the Triune. This cult would win over humanity to its side, gradually turning them over the side of Evil. However Inarius noticed the intrusion, and created a counter-sect - the Cathedral of Light - that preached the teachings of the Light. And so the great game had begun: a secret war of subterfuge and manipulations, with humanity as its grand prize.

heaven/angels = the light
hell/demons = the void
sanctuary = azeroth
nephalem = players
triune = old gods
cathedral of light = army of light/naaru

but instead of fighting for mens souls, they fight for the world soul. sounds awfully familiar doesn't it?

same shit with the nature of good/evil (light/void) in there, evil/void makes suffer and causes chaos, good/light demands absolute obecience/worship/removes free will.

[KrakHed]

but instead of fighting for mens souls, they fight for the world soul. sounds awfully familiar doesn't it?

same shit with the nature of good/evil (light/void) in there, evil/void makes suffer and causes chaos, good/light demands absolute obecience/worship/removes free will.

And everyone thought Illidan would just be Kerrigan. I don't think we're seeing quite the same scenario here, but more perhaps a variation of the same basic concept. Which could mean it turns out completely differently.

[Deleted]

And everyone thought Illidan would just be Kerrigan. I don't think we're seeing quite the same scenario here, but more perhaps a variation of the same basic concept. Which could mean it turns out completely differently.

don't know why anyone would think illidan would become a titan-level being, that's pretty stupid on the face of it, if the light/void could do that they would have a long time ago. afaik he was just gonna be the leader/champion of the army of light, strong but nowhere near xel'naga/titan.

but don't color me surprised if we get a light based raid at some point.

[KrakHed]

don't know why anyone would think illidan would become a titan-level being, that's pretty stupid on the face of it, if the light/void could do that they would have a long time ago. afaik he was just gonna be the leader/champion of the army of light, strong but nowhere near xel'naga/titan.

but don't color me surprised if we get a light based raid at some point.

With how much of an utter prick Odyn can be, my fondness for the Scarlet Crusade, Xe'ra's attitude, the descriptions of "Crystal mountains", and Xal'atath's hints of what came before the Draenei, I'm actually looking forward to a resurgence in factions of the Light that had been formerly suppressed by the Burning Legion. Perhaps hunting down, or even "recruiting" from, the Burning Legion on their quest to restore Light and order to the decimated universe. All done their way, by the means necessary to get it all ready for the invasion of the Void.

[Golden Yak]

With how much of an utter prick Odyn can be, my fondness for the Scarlet Crusade, Xe'ra's attitude, the descriptions of "Crystal mountains", and Xal'atath's hints of what came before the Draenei, I'm actually looking forward to a resurgence in factions of the Light that had been formerly suppressed by the Burning Legion. Perhaps hunting down, or even "recruiting" from, the Burning Legion on their quest to restore Light and order to the decimated universe. All done their way, by the means necessary to get it all ready for the invasion of the Void.

I am very much looking forwards to Lothraxion doing a lot of converting of the Legion's scattered forces in the near future. Get a big army of Lightsworn demons - I think the felguard and fellords would look sweet in white and gold armor.

[KrakHed]

I am very much looking forwards to Lothraxion doing a lot of converting of the Legion's scattered forces in the near future. Get a big army of Lightsworn demons - I think the felguard and fellords would look sweet in white and gold armor.

Those were actually some of my first choices. I mean, who else are they going to use to repopulate the universe, considering how the Legion genocided nearly everyone else? Still got my fingers crossed for some Apexis to show up.

[rasako]

Clearly, Blizzard is just trying to play up the natural hatred for religion and organized society that today's rebellious modern generation loves to hate. The void has always been about showing you visions that can be misconstrued as truth but are false in order to drive all beings in the universe to madness.

Just as locus walker says right after the part you quoted, neither is wrong, but neither is true. the Light sees one path and shuns all others, where the void shuns one path and is open to ALL potential futures. Destiny/fate/religion/whatever you believe/don't believe in throws you into one of those two camps.

You either take the road less traveled or you fall into madness and despair clamoring for whatever perceived truth you believe to be right.

But if I were a betting man, I'd never put my money on the void, that's just examining the facts.
They basically play out like the chaos gods of 40k, playing with the beings of the universe for their amusement and furthering their goal to swallow all of existence to return the universe to "nothingness"

[KrakHed]

Clearly, Blizzard is just trying to play up the natural hatred for religion and organized society that today's rebellious modern generation loves to hate. The void has always been about showing you visions that can be misconstrued as truth but are false in order to drive all beings in the universe to madness.

Just as locus walker says right after the part you quoted, neither is wrong, but neither is true. the Light sees one path and shuns all others, where the void shuns one path and is open to ALL potential futures. Destiny/fate/religion/whatever you believe/don't believe in throws you into one of those two camps.

You either take the road less traveled or you fall into madness and despair clamoring for whatever perceived truth you believe to be right.

But if I were a betting man, I'd never put my money on the void, that's just examining the facts.
They basically play out like the chaos gods of 40k, playing with the beings of the universe for their amusement and furthering their goal to swallow all of existence to return the universe to "nothingness"

I'm not sure this is about religion or organized society so much, or that the Light is the "path less traveled". I think the "path less traveled" is what the Void is. All the paths you would normally never even consider. All the murders and betrayals that you were always able to do, but had blinded yourself to because you found them unthinkable. But to the Void, nothing is unthinkable.

The Light is about fighting for whatever truth you consider to be right. The Void is more rejecting that anything is right or wrong in the first place, and making all actions morally equivalent. Eating a baby is the same as taking care of a baby, and the choice between them is entirely about how it benefits you.

That's why all roads are open to the Void. Right and wrong simply don't factor in.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and I just realized something interesting. See, the Naaru Saa'ra helped design the Conclave's Altar of Light and Shadow. Netherlight Temple was dedicated to researching the Void to help her and the other Naaru, and none of Velen's allies ever stopped him. The Netherlight Crucible was also designed for both Light and Void, and Velen sees absolutely no issue with that. Why is there such an ideological difference between Xe'ra and the Naaru Velen knows, who were willing to tell him about how they go Void? How ere the Auchenai allowed?

And then it hit me. Velen and his Naaru friends are more ideologically in line with the Cult of Forgotten Shadow's doctrine of balance than the mainstream Church of the Holy Light. All the Naaru we've known up until now have been Shadow Cultist in terms of their beliefs. Velen is basically a Shadow Cultist, who never once showed discomfort at using the prophecies of the Void. Sure, he primarily uses the Light, while most Shadow Cultists focus on the Void, but his underlying beliefs are the same.

The friendly Naaru have been their equivalent of Shadow Cultists all along. The Sha'tar are as close as you can get to a Naaru shadow cult.

Xe'ra seems to be an outlier because she's the only one we've seen who doesn't profess the beliefs of a Shadow Cultist.