Less than 20% of Americans say they're living the American Dream

[Hyral]

Which makes it really shocking that Bernie couldn't even win the Primaries let alone get elected. The one candidate who was actually going to allow more people to achieve the American dream.

The American dream is to work your way to the top (wether that is possible or the system is rigged is another story). Not to take it from others through the government. That might help you understand why it is not shocking Bernie did not get the support you expected.

[Seranthor]

No, you aren't wrong. He got around that much but that translated to zero electoral college votes. And he was rich and spent over 60 million of his own money to do it, something like 90 million in todays money.

And after spending over 100 million dollars to get 18% of the popular vote and no electoral college votes, it was considered the best 3rd party showing since 1912.

You aren't wrong, he got 18%. But even then, it took that much to still lose.

How many 3rd party candidates do you know can come in spending 100 million of their own cash freely plus any other public funding they might get.

I believe that socialist guy that has all the 'bros' could have pulled it off, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. We will never actually know because that was a road not travelled.

Certainly politics would be more entertaining to watch if some of these mega-millionaires would make runs at the WH. I can see it now... Musk v Cuban 2024

[Fugus]

Let me explain it like this I rather people keep their money then pay the goverment for things we can do locally. I say we have the oppurtunity to try something different if we could elect fdr for 4terms on ideas that were down right absurd for the time and possiby could have destroyed this country why cant we try the tax cut theory. All that tax cuts do is shrink the goverment and im not saying foreign investment would open job oppurtunity all I am saying is we become competitive by cutting coperate rates. A job is something you have to work at and learn the skill. Obviously not everyone will find a job it happens and sometimes it sad but lets face it how far do you go before you abandon your values to take care of people you really dont know?
The more I dig into the actual roles of goverment and economics the more I realize that somethings are better off with the states and local groups doing the job while the fed does its job in insuring our saftey(physical and cyber threats) and ensure that our commerace prospers in the realm of Free trade and inflation/deflation. Like the federal reserve/central bank.
I dont like sanders because he is absurd. Taxing will not gurantee stability long term wise. It just makes the goverment bigger. Getting wallstreet and the 1% to pay taxes at 50-65% will issue a national debt somwehere around $2-19 trillion dollars. So if you want a clinton era budget you wont get it with him.

FDR actually helped us greatly.

Thing is the tax cuts aren't just a theory, they have been tried and the results are pretty much negative. The tax cuts don't just shrink the government like it isn't some rock that doesn't do anything.

If you cut taxes then you either increase the debt or you cut programs and we are adding like 80 BILLION to our military which is already bloated as it is. The shrinks come to other areas whether it be medicare, medicaid, foodstamps, the EPA and other such things. And those are the stuff that he is trying to cut just to balance his increases to the military with the tax cuts just adding to the debt.

And we are already competitive to foreign tax rates. You have to look at what our EFFECTIVE tax rates are which is what the companies actually pay. It averages only about 12.6% with the multinationals paying even less and many of them paying nothing or getting refunds.

Cutting it doesn't create any appreciable jobs and what minute few that might pop up isn't worth the costs to us from the cuts. It actually hurts us.

And some rolls are better at state level, some at federal level and some left to the private market. Healthcare is better left at the federal level and is done worst at the private level as it is critical services that do not work in any free market and benefit greatly from economies of scale with the profit motive being the worst overall motivator for the best outcomes.

And Sanders was not absurd. And it wasn't just taxes it went beyond just that. He also increase the wages for the working class that actually increased consumer spending improving the economy.

A small government for small governments sake is just as bad as a big government for no other reason but to be big. There is a middle ground and as it stands we are too big with our military spending and too small with our public spending.

And you also have to look at why the rich spend such a huge portion of the taxes, it isn't because they are over taxed, they aren't. It is because the vast majority of the workers in the US are paid so low that they can't afford to pay taxes to begin with. If you want to improve the ratio, pay them workers enough to actually afford to get off welfare and pay taxes.

From the projections I saw, Sanders budget was projected to balance the budget and have us working down our debt by his second term.

And his healthcare plan was cheaper, higher quality, and with full coverage than what we have now and vastly better than what we had before or what the GOP has put forward since taking power. There is one review that tries to claim it is bad that a bunch try to link to claiming it would cost us 30 trillion, but very few try to link to the retraction where the original article had to correct themselves that after it actually came out to be being about $4,000 per year per person cheaper than what it would replace.

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I believe that socialist guy that has all the 'bros' could have pulled it off, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. We will never actually know because that was a road not travelled.

Certainly politics would be more entertaining to watch if some of these mega-millionaires would make runs at the WH. I can see it now... Musk v Cuban 2024

No, not a chance on our current system and how unknown and broke he was at the start. I have a better chance of a 3-way with Jessica Alba and Hayden Panettiere.

With the system we had, he had a very good chance of winning if it weren't for the DNC cheating to make sure Clinton got the nomination. No clue if he would have won that with a legit primary because that never happened but by all data, he was a contender with a real chance.

Would much prefer to see our system setup with no primaries where all candidates ran at the same time using a ranked voting with public funding and no private funding and media mandated to give equal coverage to all candidates. Not even the parties could fund the elections and all voting must be done on paper and pen and counted in public by hand.

[Taso]

FDR actually helped us greatly.

Thing is the tax cuts aren't just a theory, they have been tried and the results are pretty much negative. The tax cuts don't just shrink the government like it is some rock that doesn't do anything.

If you cut taxes then you either increase the debt or you cut programs and we are adding like 80 BILLION to our military which is already bloated as it is. The shrinks come to other areas whether it be medicare, medicaid, foodstamps, the EPA and other such things. And those are the stuff that he is trying to cut just to balance his increases to the military with the tax cuts just adding to the debt.

And we are already competitive to foreign tax rates. You have to look at what our EFFECTIVE tax rates are which is what the companies actually pay. It averages only about 12.6% with the multinationals paying even less and many of them paying nothing or getting refunds.

Cutting it doesn't create any appreciable jobs and what minute few that might pop up isn't worth the costs to us from the cuts. It actually hurts us.

And some rolls are better at state level, some at federal level and some left to the private market. Healthcare is better left at the federal level and is done worst at the private level as it is critical services that do not work in any free market and benefit greatly from economies of scale with the profit motive being the worst overall motivator for the best outcomes.

And Sanders was not absurd. And it wasn't just taxes it went beyond just that. He also increase the wages for the working class that actually increased consumer spending improving the economy.

A small government for small governments sake is just as bad as a big government for no other reason but to be big. There is a middle ground and as it stands we are too big with our military spending and too small with our public spending.

And you also have to look at why the rich spend such a huge portion of the taxes, it isn't because they are over taxed, they aren't. It is because the vast majority of the workers in the US are paid so low that they can't afford to pay taxes to begin with. If you want to improve the ratio, pay them workers enough to actually afford to get off welfare and pay taxes.

From the projections I saw, Sanders budget was projected to balance the budget and have us working down our debt by his second term.

And his healthcare plan was cheaper, higher quality, and with full coverage than what we have now and vastly better than what we had before or what the GOP has put forward since taking power. There is one review that tries to claim it is bad that a bunch try to link to claiming it would cost us 30 trillion, but very few try to link to the retraction where the original article had to correct themselves that after it actually came out to be being about $4,000 per year per person cheaper than what it would replace.

Our military is not even as powerful as it can be thats why we use drone striking. Trust me the current budget probaly covers for equipment repairs. The actual cost would be way more. Now our defense is questionable because a very small percentage goes to cyber. But in general we spend way more in social then anything else as for this years budget.
http://federal-budget.insidegov.com/...nding&s=47xnQz

[Fugus]

Our military is not even as powerful as it can be thats why we use drone striking. Trust me the current budget probaly covers for equipment repairs. The actual cost would be way more. Now our defense is questionable because a very small percentage goes to cyber. But in general we spend way more in social then anything else as for this years budget.
http://federal-budget.insidegov.com/...nding&s=47xnQz

No, we are drone striking due to a withdraw order signed by Bush Jr before he left office that had us get out by a set date. Obama tried to get it extended but they refused and we had to pull out. The drones allowed them to continue in that area while still honoring the withdraw from what I know. Anyone more educated on this can correct me in any way. But our nation is plenty powerful to march into any of the 7 areas we are warring with. And we shouldn't even be warring with 7 nations let alone warring with nations for 17 years, like a damn blood feud when it originally was started by us based on lies.

The budget is overdone with too much of it being wasted. The Pentagon just got caught trying to bury a report showing how they wasted 5 billion every year that they could cut without firing anyone or cutting pay and I know from experience, they actively break and waste stuff to keep their funding up.

And we spend more in our social than we have to already because HOW we are doing it. We could go single payer and cut our healthcare funding MASSIVELY as we spend more per person than any other nation with worse results and while their is spent per person, ours is spent just by those who had to pay for it driving it up more for the people who actually pay for it.

We massively too much on our military. It is too big for what it is needed to be. Just like our healthcare, we spend more than any other nation by a huge margin.

Edit: And with an increase in minimum wage, you our social spending was drop like a rock from all those who no longer are on welfare while working. They would be knocked off welfare and paying taxes instead of tax exempt and collecting welfare.

[Taso]

No, we are drone striking due to a withdraw order signed by Bush Jr before he left office that had us get out by a set date. Obama tried to get it extended but they refused and we had to pull out. The drones allowed them to continue in that area while still honoring the withdraw from what I know. Anyone more educated on this can correct me in any way. But our nation is plenty powerful to march into any of the 7 areas we are warring with. And we shouldn't even be warring with 7 nations let alone warring with nations for 17 years, like a damn blood feud when it originally was started by us based on lies.

The budget is overdone with too much of it being wasted. The Pentagon just got caught trying to bury a report showing how they wasted 5 billion every year that they could cut without firing anyone or cutting pay and I know from experience, they actively break and waste stuff to keep their funding up.

And we spend more in our social than we have to already because HOW we are doing it. We could go single payer and cut our healthcare funding MASSIVELY as we spend more per person than any other nation with worse results and while their is spent per person, ours is spent just by those who had to pay for it driving it up more for the people who actually pay for it.

We massively too much on our military. It is too big for what it is needed to be. Just like our healthcare, we spend more than any other nation by a huge margin.

Edit: And with an increase in minimum wage, you our social spending was drop like a rock from all those who no longer are on welfare while working. They would be knocked off welfare and paying taxes instead of tax exempt and collecting welfare.

ok. Give me some sites where this is all said.

[Fugus]

ok. Give me some sites where this is all said.

Here is the withdraw order on Wiki, just did a quick 5 second google. You can find the original text if you look longer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E...rces_Agreement

The fact we are in 7 conflicts is known with Afghanistan starting 17 years ago and starting more as we went. Afghanistan is actually the longest conflict in US history.

The military breaking stuff to keep funding up is common knowledge and you can find stuff about them all over the place. During the brief stint I was in they would make sure to use every round of ammunition they are given because they are afraid if they don't use it all they will lose funding and use the "Drive it like you stole it" mentality when it came to vehicles as well.

The Pentagon report most sites hailed as them wasting 125 billion but that was because they said over years. It breaks down to 25 billion per year wasted. Again 5 second google, you can look for more.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.05b6395d76a8


As for the healthcare bits, you can look for them all over the place. The fact remains we spend more, per person by a huge margin than just about any other country. I think we spend between 8,000 to 10,000 per year per citizen just covering who we do while. Again 5 second google.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...her-countries/

As for the increase in healthcare, that is a bit more in depth to go into to give you too many sources with all the areas. But short facts, roughly 1 in 7 americans now collect food stamps with about 80% of them working and still being poor enough to collect. As of last year a full third of all US jobs paid less than 15k which is too poor to pay taxes and you still collect welfare. Over half the nations jobs paid less than 30k.

Not really wanting to do anymore googles though.

Edit: Oops, wasn't 5 billion per year, was 25 billion per year, correcting that.

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@Taso

Sorry to cut this short man, but I am off to bed, it is almost 2AM here.

[Nfinitii]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/19/less...can-dream.html



Not surprising given the wealth gap and rising inequality.
Which makes it really shocking that Bernie couldn't even win the Primaries let alone get elected. The one candidate who was actually going to allow more people to achieve the American dream.

Yea, Bernie certainly would have helped, increase my taxes and give me less money to buy a home with is exactly what I need.

[Orlong]

I'd rather rent and go enjoy life than buy and be house poor like so many people I know.

Except those who buy a house wont be paying anything in 20 to 30 years and youll still be paying rent for the rest of your life

[THE Bigzoman]

i'd choose the bottom in a heart beat....

Right though?

10 char

[cuafpr]

I'd rather rent and go enjoy life than buy and be house poor like so many people I know.

the people u know buying houses must not be very bight.... per sq/ft buying is way cheaper, and an investment via equity and tax breaks. i pay 900/month for my house taxes and insurance one 1 acre of land, and 1400 sq/ft of space brand new build for me. that same amount of sq/ft renting would be over 1200-1500 a month here. I bought within to below what my income could support though, if people are buying the max a bank will loan then yeah they can be house poor but thats their own fault.

[Fugus]

Yea, Bernie certainly would have helped, increase my taxes and give me less money to buy a home with is exactly what I need.

So I take it you make over $250,000 and get your money mostly through dividends?

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Except those who buy a house wont be paying anything in 20 to 30 years and youll still be paying rent for the rest of your life

While I disagree with you on most things, this is one of the most logical and correct things I have ever seen you post.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Except those who buy a house wont be paying anything in 20 to 30 years and youll still be paying rent for the rest of your life

This doesn't get said enough.

Not to mention once you're old if you want to move into a small apartment/condo, you can sell your house that is paid off which means you get the money.

[Souflikar]

80% of Americans should stop bitching and make things happen for themselves. A portion of that percentage are content relying on Government. That being said, it you do rely on Government, you will NEVER live the American dream. So, STFU.

[Rotted]

Millennials and hard work in the same article... lol...

Best. Attitude. Ever.

[pateuvasiliu]

Obviously people are going to choose



over this

I'd choose bottom on a heartbeat, small town life was always what I wanted. Quiet, no pollution, a tight knit community.

But the latter has far fewer jobs and probably smaller salaries.

[Fugus]

80% of Americans should stop bitching and make things happen for themselves. A portion of that percentage are content relying on Government. That being said, it you do rely on Government, you will NEVER live the American dream. So, STFU.

You really need to look how the economy works and the income ranges for the workers.

A full third of jobs pay 15k or less per year, a full half pay 30k or less per year, and 70% of jobs pay 50k or less per year. The national median income is only $29,600 per year.

And working hard doesn't change those stastics, it just increases the chances of you raising your place in it which knocks another out of that spot and lower down. Mathematically your advice doesn't work.

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I'd choose bottom on a heartbeat, small town life was always what I wanted. Quiet, no pollution, a tight knit community.

But the latter has far fewer jobs and probably smaller salaries.

Depends on what level you are going.

I personally hate living in the city but hate living in the country too. Prefer the outskirts of town where I can go into town easy or further into the country but I have some level of life around me.

Made the mistake of moving to an area that was TOO country for a while. The silence was great for a month or two, then cabin fever set in and there was nothing around.

[Souflikar]

You really need to look how the economy works and the income ranges for the workers.

A full third of jobs pay 15k or less per year, a full half pay 30k or less per year, and 70% of jobs pay 50k or less per year. The national median income is only $29,600 per year.

And working hard doesn't change those stastics, it just increases the chances of you raising your place in it which knows another out of that spot and lower down. Mathematically your advice doesn't work.

Bullshit, those numbers only exist because people settle on mediocre careers and STILL try to live beyond their means. You can educate yourself and make a very nice career and life for yourself. You don't have to be a Harvard Graduate, Doctor or Lawyer either. Get a grant, go to a Tech school and your life can change. The bottom line is, make a damn effort. Your remarks dictate that, "Oh well, that's just the way it is because that's how economics work." Nice advice from a clueless individual.
You must be very young because you seem ignorant to a common sense real world approach. Stop copying stats from the Internet and use your brain.

Have a nice day.

[Fugus]

Bullshit, those numbers only exist because people settle on mediocre careers and STILL try to live beyond their means. You can educate yourself and make a very nice career and life for yourself. You don't have to be a Harvard Graduate, Doctor or Lawyer either. Get a grant, go to a Tech school and your life can change. The bottom line is, make a damn effort. Your remarks dictate that, "Oh well, that's just the way it is because that's how economics work." Nice advice from a clueless individual.
You must be very young because you seem ignorant to a common sense real world approach. Stop copying stats from the Internet and use your brain.

Have a nice day.

I have educated myself which is why I'm smart enough not to take what you are selling.

What you are suggesting, while decent small scale advice, doesn't fix a large scale problem and if actually used on a large scale and without the proper worker protections actually makes things worse.

And actually in my mid 30's and helped run a business for years putting in 60 hour weeks.

You need to start looking at the stats and how the world works. Going of your anecdotes that doesn't see beyond your nose and your emotions isn't using your brain. Actually looking at the big picture is and you aren't doing that.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I'm sure other people have said this buuuuuuut... the concept of the "American Dream" or how individuals perceive it I think is more of the problem than the lack of achieving said dream.

Let's face it, for most, it's an over-sized truck and or SUV with an over-sized, overpriced cookie-cutter home with all the latest and greatest appliances/entertainment while also having a litter of children, a dog and the hottest things in yard care. Combine that with parties and hangouts around the grill every night, NFL package and beers. Weekend excursions. All in all, you're looking at a massive fucking price-tag and an arguably unreasonable living standard.

Not to mention, rather boring and shallow.

I don't think many Americans understand that this lifestyle isn't exactly sustainable and tends to breed mental health problems. It's okay to settle for an apartment or smaller home. It's okay to have a Corrola instead of an F-150. It's okay to enjoy Netflix and play games rather than spend thousands on television just so you can watch a bunch of overpaid retards bash their brains in. You don't need a dog. You can settle for A child or none at all.

I mean, if you have the finances and you truly want X and Y go for it but those things are not really what makes your life great.