Trumpcare Back From Dead Again: Cassidy-Graham Cruelest Version Yet, Has 49 Votes

[Smitzelplix]

Guessing you're in a state that refused to expand medicaid. No one's fault but your governor.

And if Republicans get their way no one is going to have expanded Medicaid since that's one thing they want to roll back on.

[Kujako]

And if Republicans get their way no one is going to have expanded Medicaid since that's one thing they want to roll back on.

Oh it's better than that, the current plan redistributes funds without taking the expansion of services into account. So states that did expand their medicaid coverage will get short changed while the states that didn't will get an increase in funds.

[Mormolyce]

A fake quote to go with the lie about pre-existing conditions.

During a Fox & Friends interview on Thursday morning, Vice President Mike Pence was asked to respond to concerns people rightfully have that the latest Trumpcare bill will make it tougher for people with preexisting conditions to obtain and keep health insurance.

“Folks like Jimmy Kimmel, they’re worried about the preexisting condition thing, ’cause this will be up to the governors to decide how the money is dispersed, who gets coverage,” host Ainsley Earhardt said. “Can you guarantee that these governors will make sure that preexisting conditions are covered?”

“Thomas Jefferson said, ‘Government that governs least, governs best,'” Pence said, using a quote that the Thomas Jefferson Foundation says Jefferson never uttered. “I mean the question that people ought to ask is, who do you think will be more responsible to the health care needs in your community? Your governor, your state legislature, or a congressman and a president in a far-off nation’s capital. I mean, this is the concept of federalism upon which our constitution was framed.”

https://thinkprogress.org/pence-uses...-f3647fe54811/

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C'mon man, don't just arbitrarily cut off the list.

Phew, for a minute there I thought there was only 20 countries on earth. Good on you for keeping him honest.

[Shkar]

A fake quote to go with the lie about pre-existing conditions.


https://thinkprogress.org/pence-uses...-f3647fe54811/

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Phew, for a minute there I thought there was only 20 countries on earth. Good on you for keeping him honest.

It was mainly that he was (at least as I saw it) implying that countries with single-payer were WAY lower on the list. If he would have included a link, or the numbers of some European countries or what have you, I wouldn't have cared in the slightest.

[Zan15]

My yearly income is around 20k, and people wonder why I don't have any kind of insurance.

you should apply for medicaid, you easily qualify for it....unless you are not in the united states that is..or maybe 1 or 2 states that have such a low threshold

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Guessing you're in a state that refused to expand medicaid. No one's fault but your governor.

even if they did not expand it, he should qualify for it at 20k income in most states.....unless giggles....he is in one of those wonderful red states.


but even in those states he would qualify for ACA subsidies and pay as little as 0 for his insurance.

take florida for instance. no medicaid, 20k income.....plans on the ACA start at 59 dollars a month (i bet he spends more then this on his phone)

Estimated monthly premium

$55.12

Deductible

$6,650
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum

$7,150
Individual Total


Copayments / Coinsurance

Emergency room care: $350 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $33
Primary doctor: $35
Specialist doctor: $80 Copay after deductible



want lower deductibles

Estimated monthly premium

$73.21
Deductible

$2,000
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum

$2,000
Individual Total

Copayments / Coinsurance

Emergency room care: No Charge After Deductible
Generic drugs: No Charge
Primary doctor: No Charge
Specialist doctor: $5

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My yearly income is around 20k, and people wonder why I don't have any kind of insurance.

So which state are you in????


how about texas...

20k income....aca gets you plans starting at 35.00.....

Estimated monthly premium

$35.57
Was: $231.41
Deductible

$6,150
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum

$6,500
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance

Emergency room care: $350 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $5
Primary doctor: $25
Specialist doctor: $50 Copay after deductible

_______
want lower deducts

Estimated monthly premium

$72.81
Was: $268.65
Deductible

$500
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum

$2,350
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance

Emergency room care: $200 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $5
Primary doctor: $10
Specialist doctor: $30

_________________

Estimated monthly premium

$91.87
Was: $287.71
Deductible

$1,750
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum

$1,750
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance

Emergency room care: No Charge After Deductible
Generic drugs: $1
Primary doctor: $1
Specialist doctor: $5

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My yearly income is around 20k, and people wonder why I don't have any kind of insurance.

you should check out https://www.healthcare.gov/

very easy to price out plans without having to fill out much other then age, income, zip code...

Treno any clue to the state you are in, is it NJ?

or because you said your state produces jeff sessions it would be AL?


in AL you would qualify for even more subsidies under the ACA to the point you would pay 0.

Estimated monthly premium

$0.00
Was: $321.44
Deductible

$6,450
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum

$6,450
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance

Emergency room care: No Charge After Deductible
Generic drugs: No Charge After Deductible
Primary doctor: No Charge After Deductible
Specialist doctor: No Charge After Deductible

_____________

Lower deductibles?
Blue Cross And Blue Shield Of Alabama · Blue Cross Select Silver, A Multi-State Plan
Estimated monthly premium

$50.58
Was: $414.70
Deductible

$450
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum

$1,250
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance

Emergency room care: $275
Generic drugs: $5
Primary doctor: $25
Specialist doctor: $40

[Toogoodman]

Yes, people should take better care of themselves, but one thing that would seriously help address many of those problems is cheaper healthcare. How many health issues go ignored until it's too late because treatment is so expensive? There are so many issues out there that are cheaper to fix if caught early, or that become impossible to fix if caught late. If people aren't worried about not being able to afford it, they are more likely to take their kid in when they have a cough that won't go away, or when they start to get a chronic pain.

Granted, healthcare has other problems as well. Doctor's and med students are highly suicidal, for instance. The complicated web of insurance providers/plans and all the differences and paperwork involved adds a ton of time that could be reclaimed. The amount of misinformed and outright harmful advice on topics like diet, exercise, and vaccines is another. Heck, the way pharmaceutical companies make profits off of production instead of invention is a huge deal in my opinion. We could manufacture drugs for WAY cheaper, but getting a patent guarantees a monopoly. This works fine for other markets, but is insane for medicine. Separate the two; pay them for inventing the drug or subsidize the cost, but let competition drive down prices of the good.

A big part of the reason costs are so high is that so many people can't pay for it. The hospitals know that a ton of people aren't going to pay their bills, so they jack up their prices to get what they can from the people who will pay. If payment was guaranteed, they wouldn't have to do that. They might still try, but single-payer would lead to a stronger bargaining position regardless.


These are all massive problems in my eyes. And if you want to talk about how we can address these in positive ways, I'm absolutely game. If you are worried about the side-effects of a massive, sudden change to the system, that is a valid concern, and we can talk about a staged plan. I don't think it's accurate to say these are dealbreakers though.

I totally agree, the costs for healthcare are absolutely insane, and it is due to so many different factors. I absolutely want a single payer system, and im a moderate, due to my stance on not liking people profiteering health care. However, i think a lot of people who consider my remarks as heartless or cruel will have to understand that under a single payer system, there WILL be rationing, and that means a lot of people are not going to get treatment, and a large group of those people will be the terminally ill, and probably the morbidly obese.

[Felya]

I totally agree, the costs for healthcare are absolutely insane, and it is due to so many different factors. I absolutely want a single payer system, and im a moderate, due to my stance on not liking people profiteering health care. However, i think a lot of people who consider my remarks as heartless or cruel will have to understand that under a single payer system, there WILL be rationing, and that means a lot of people are not going to get treatment, and a large group of those people will be the terminally ill, and probably the morbidly obese.

The rationing argument in the context of your post is horrible. You do realize that rashoning care, when everyone can get care, explicitly means that there are people who don't get care now. Not because of rationing, but because they cannot afford it. If we are not meeting capacity now and meeting capacity will still mean rations, that explicitly means that more people do not get care NOW...

Also, google triage... it's not just a quest in manythril harbor...

[Glorious Leader]

I totally agree, the costs for healthcare are absolutely insane, and it is due to so many different factors. I absolutely want a single payer system, and im a moderate, due to my stance on not liking people profiteering health care. However, i think a lot of people who consider my remarks as heartless or cruel will have to understand that under a single payer system, there WILL be rationing, and that means a lot of people are not going to get treatment, and a large group of those people will be the terminally ill, and probably the morbidly obese.

Theirs already rationing. In the US healthcare is rationed by money. Every health care system in the world rations health care. Medical resources are necessarily scarce.

[Gestopft]

It should be noted, both insurance companies and also doctor/hospital groups hate this bill. The fact that these two groups, opposed to each other as they might be, both hate this bill, should be saying something.

Not only that, but the state Medicaid Directors are against it as well, urging them to hit the brakes on this legislation.

[pathora44]

Not only that, but the state Medicaid Directors are against it as well, urging them to hit the brakes on this legislation.

The Republicans do not care. They don't want to look like inept morons that for seven years bitched and moaned about Obamacare and how if they had the power they would create a much better system. Well now they have complete control of every branch of our government and what did they do? They shit the bed because they had no fucking clue on what to do. So now to save face they are looking to fuck everyone but the fucking rich and insurance companies. In the end though that is all they care about. As long as the corporations and the 1% are happy, they have no problem fucking everyone else over.

[Breccia]

My yearly income is around 20k, and people wonder why I don't have any kind of insurance.

The ACA is made for people exactly like you. Your income is so low, that you would get over half subsidized.

[Glorious Leader]

Singlepayer would be insanely expensive(everyone who pays taxes would find their taxes go up, and even those who don't pay taxes would find themselves paying taxes), would put everyone's healthcare into the hands of bureaucrats who only think of people as statistics, and would be 100% unconstitutional.

Repealing Obamacare and letting the free market replace it is what should happen.

Ive got bad news for you. Pre ACA the healthcare insurance industry is largely run by bereaucrats who only think of people as statistics. Dollars and cents as opposed to fleshy breathing humans.

Why you people seem to always be in favor of unaccountable private tyranies ill never know. I just wish you would stop unironically claiming thats freedom.

[Toogoodman]

The rationing argument in the context of your post is horrible. You do realize that rashoning care, when everyone can get care, explicitly means that there are people who don't get care now. Not because of rationing, but because they cannot afford it. If we are not meeting capacity now and meeting capacity will still mean rations, that explicitly means that more people do not get care NOW...

Also, google triage... it's not just a quest in manythril harbor...

Yes, but you're not understanding something, right now there is rationing because some people cant afford it, but under a system like single payer that rationing comes based on who the board would deem not worth it, for a lack of a better word. Which is exactly where triage comes in, if you're too far gone, then you probably wont get medical treatment and will probably go to hospice, if they even afford you that. That's just the reality of it, its not a bad thing, if you have terminal cancer, and you virtually have no chance of surviving, why prolong it? resources are finite, and those resources should be spend on the healthy, regardless of age. The obese would also fall into this category, if you're so overweight that you're murdering your own organs, why would we ration valuable healthcare resources to you? Were not going to give you a new heart that you're going to destroy, it would go to someone who is active, and would benefit greatly from it.

I also feel that everyone should be forced to be an organ donor, why take healthy organs to your grave...

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Theirs already rationing. In the US healthcare is rationed by money. Every health care system in the world rations health care. Medical resources are necessarily scarce.

Exactly my point, if you willfully destroy your own body, why would we waste scarce resources on you....

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Ive got bad news for you. Pre ACA the healthcare insurance industry is largely run by bereaucrats who only think of people as statistics. Dollars and cents as opposed to fleshy breathing humans.

Why you people seem to always be in favor of unaccountable private tyranies ill never know. I just wish you would stop unironically claiming thats freedom.

I mean, if you think a government run program would think of people as statistics you're delusional, where not a populace of 10M, we have 326M individuals in the country, people literally are simply statistics unfortunately.

[Glorious Leader]

Yes, but you're not understanding something, right now there is rationing because some people cant afford it, but under a system like single payer that rationing comes based on who the board would deem not worth it, for a lack of a better word. Which is exactly where triage comes in, if you're too far gone, then you probably wont get medical treatment and will probably go to hospice, if they even afford you that. That's just the reality of it, its not a bad thing, if you have terminal cancer, and you virtually have no chance of surviving, why prolong it? resources are finite, and those resources should be spend on the healthy, regardless of age. The obese would also fall into this category, if you're so overweight that you're murdering your own organs, why would we ration valuable healthcare resources to you? Were not going to give you a new heart that you're going to destroy, it would go to someone who is active, and would benefit greatly from it.

I also feel that everyone should be forced to be an organ donor, why take healthy organs to your grave...

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Exactly my point, if you willfully destroy your own body, why would we waste scarce resources on you....

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I mean, if you think a government run program would think of people as statistics you're delusional, where not a populace of 10M, we have 326M individuals in the country, people literally are simply statistics unfortunately.

This is amusing. Why you think this argument only applies to governments and not private tyrannys is beyond me. At least in theory the government is accountable to the voting public. Its not even a theory for insurance companies they ate literally only accountable yo share holders.


As for why you "waste resources", this is a backwards view that can only be viewed from the perspective of people (individuals) who only view humanity as a resource. You cant sit there and argue governments do this while participating in the same bs yourself. It may come as a shock to you but governments across the world triage and by and large those systems function with better healthcare outcomes, no death panels and no arguments over wasted resources. Your view is incredible cynical and not a reflection of reality.

[Felya]

Yes, but you're not understanding something, right now there is rationing because some people cant afford it, but under a system like single payer that rationing comes based on who the board would deem not worth it, for a lack of a better word.

No, hospitals base their ration on triage, not some board of directors:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage

Those who are likely to live, regardless of what care they receive;
Those who are unlikely to live, regardless of what care they receive;
Those for whom immediate care might make a positive difference in outcome.

So, no, you have a deep misunderstanding of how hospitals work.

Which is exactly where triage comes in, if you're too far gone, then you probably wont get medical treatment and will probably go to hospice, if they even afford you that.

Your making shit up Arnold. If you think triage comes after review by board of directors, you don't actually know what triage is.

That's just the reality of it, its not a bad thing, if you have terminal cancer, and you virtually have no chance of surviving, why prolong it? resources are finite, and those resources should be spend on the healthy, regardless of age. The obese would also fall into this category, if you're so overweight that you're murdering your own organs, why would we ration valuable healthcare resources to you? Were not going to give you a new heart that you're going to destroy, it would go to someone who is active, and would benefit greatly from it.

That's not how it works and with single payer, the likelyhood of that obese person knowing their health problems and the cancer patient knowing sooner, has the potential to save both, before major treatment is needed.

I also feel that everyone should be forced to be an organ donor, why take healthy organs to your grave...

That's fucked up... I'll agree with this, only if you volunteer to be the guy telling grieving families...

[Toogoodman]

This is amusing. Why you think this argument only applies to governments and not private tyrannys is beyond me. At least in theory the government is accountable to the voting public. Its not even a theory for insurance companies they ate literally only accountable yo share holders.


As for why you "waste resources", this is a backwards view that can only be viewed from the perspective of people (individuals) who only view humanity as a resource. You cant sit there and argue governments do this while participating in the same bs yourself. It may come as a shock to you but governments across the world triage and by and large those systems function with better healthcare outcomes, no death panels and no arguments over wasted resources. Your view is incredible cynical and not a reflection of reality.

Did i say private insurance companies aren't a shit show? I have actually advocated the opposite, as i am opposed to the profiteering of healthcare. What i do find amusing however is that people seem to think a government run body would be any different, have you ever dealt with the IRS for example? As a veteran, I've dealt with the military healthcare system when i was on active duty, and I've dealt with the VA since becoming a civilian, lets just say i go to my private practice primary physician for a reason. Saying that the body in charge of healthcare would be accountable to the voting populace is ignorant, considering how many government bodies that should, by your logic, be accountable to the voting public, are constantly encompassed by scandals. Do i think the government should run healthcare? absolutely, but be wary of what that means, don't be under the misconception that "big brother" has your back, because on a national level, were all "cogs in the system", no matter how much you think they love you.

Also, if you don't think the US would ration healthcare you're truly delusional, I tore my ACL in the Army and had to wait 11 months for surgery, and don't even talk to me about "feel sick", ever wait 3 weeks for an appointment because you have the flu? Good luck getting that cancer treatment if you're 70, or that new heart if you weigh 550lbs, or that new lung if you're a heavy smoker, and honestly, that's the way it should be.

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No, hospitals base their ration on triage, not some board of directors:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage
So, no, you have a deep misunderstanding of how hospitals work.

I mean, you're conflating immediate care (i.e. emergency triage care) with rationing care. Rationing of care already happens, you cant say that ER triage is the same as patients setting up surgeries. In case you didn't already know, hospitals actually have a board of medicine, who actually decide where their resources are best spent, what gets people are extremely unhealthy into the surgeries they need is the insurance they pay for directly. Obviously, this system works differently in other countries, but there is a reason people cross the Canadian border into the US to get surgeries faster.

Your making shit up Arnold. If you think triage comes after review by board of directors, you don't actually know what triage is.

No, this is most likely how it will actually go down. I have the pleasure of going out to lunch every month with one of the top healthcare economists in MA, one of professors from college (who is actually quite liberal), and she talks this stuff all of the time. She also believes heavy rationing is not only needed, but will happen, as it should, but again, we will watch it play out here eventually.

That's not how it works and with single payer, the likelyhood of that obese person knowing their health problems and the cancer patient knowing sooner, has the potential to save both, before major treatment is needed.

Do you think a person who weighs 400+ lbs looks in the mirror and says "damn, im pretty healthy", probably not. Saying an obese person doesn't know they're in critical danger is laughable. Cancer is a different beast, you could screen negative one week, and be dying a few weeks later.

That's fucked up... I'll agree with this, only if you volunteer to be the guy telling grieving families...

Why should it even be a discussion? It should just be reality for everyone.

[paralleluniverse]

Trump WH admits in private "we really aren't sure what the impact will be" and are just obsessed with passing something they can call "repeal and replace".

So clueless Trump doesn't care how many people he kills, it's all about how it looks.

[Breccia]

Trump WH admits in private "we really aren't sure what the impact will be" and are just obsessed with passing something they can call "repeal and replace".

It's funny, they used this line in pubic before, trying to discredit the CBO. Problem is,
a) it failed spectacularly, and
b) they can't use it this time since they didn't give the CBO enough time to grade it anyhow.

So what used to be their line of attack, a line just as stupid as "polls mean nothing", is now purely an admission of ignorance.

[paralleluniverse]

OMG!!!!

John McCain is a no on Cassidy-Graham (and still lying about the extensive process the ACA took to passage, it was passed in 2010, not 2009 as McCain claims).

SENATOR JOHN McCAIN ON HEALTH CARE REFORM

Washington, D.C. *– U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ) released the following statement today on health care reform:

“As I have repeatedly stressed, health care reform legislation ought to be the product of regular order in the Senate. Committees of jurisdiction should mark up legislation with input from all committee members, and send their bill to the floor for debate and amendment. That is the only way we might achieve bipartisan consensus on lasting reform, without which a policy that affects one-fifth of our economy and every single American family will be subject to reversal with every change of administration and congressional majority.

“I would consider supporting legislation similar to that offered by my friends Senators Graham and Cassidy were it the product of extensive hearings, debate and amendment. But that has not been the case. Instead, the specter of September 30th budget reconciliation deadline has hung over this entire process.

“We should not be content to pass health care legislation on a party-line basis, as Democrats did when they rammed Obamacare through Congress in 2009. If we do so, our success could be as short-lived as theirs when the political winds shift, as they regularly do. The issue is too important, and too many lives are at risk, for us to leave the American people guessing from one election to the next whether and how they will acquire health insurance. A bill of this impact requires a bipartisan approach.

“Senators Alexander and Murray have been negotiating in good faith to fix some of the problems with Obamacare. But I fear that the prospect of one last attempt at a strictly Republican bill has left the impression that their efforts cannot succeed. I hope they will resume their work should this last attempt at a partisan solution fail.

“I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal. I believe we could do better working together, Republicans and Democrats, and have not yet really tried. Nor could I support it without knowing how much it will cost, how it will effect insurance premiums, and how many people will be helped or hurt by it. Without a full CBO score, which won’t be available by the end of the month, we won’t have reliable answers to any of those questions.

“I take no pleasure in announcing my opposition. Far from it. The bill’s authors are my dear friends, and I think the world of them. I know they are acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what is best for the country. So am I.

“I hope that in the months ahead, we can join with colleagues on both sides of the aisle to arrive at a compromise solution that is acceptable to most of us, and serves the interests of Americans as best we can.”

###

Source: https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public...8-C87E3CCCC4CE

[Edge-]

OMG!!!!

John McCain is a no on Cassidy-Graham (and still lying about the extensive process the ACA took to passage).

I've been pretty harsh on McCain lately, but I'm thrilled to read it. Now to just hope that Murkowski/Collins still hold out.