PROS and CONS of Legion: What we like, what we dislike

[Eurhetemec]

Agreed...another vote for post likes !

I actually really liked parts of this expansion - but I'm also a major alt person - and this expansion failed on that (note - I know they're trying to continually improve things for alts - but I'm no longer there to see it - so I can't judge current improvements. It just became too frustrating, and so I no longer deal with it)

The change to how Artifact Research worked (i.e. hard-set to 42 and increases each weak) was absolutely huge, and the WQs + getting good gear from the new zones mean you rapidly gear up, but there are holes in the picture, like getting XP on to your Class Hall Followers so they can actually wear items, or having to do a lot of verrrrrrrrrrrrrry long gated quests/achievements (to get flying, for example which is a really kick in the nuts if you like alts - but almost trivial if you are hyperfocused on one character). It's good though, just maybe they can think a bit harder about catch-up mechanisms in the next expansion.

[Korlick]

Legion is coming to an end "soon"

Unsubstantiated.

World quests (while not perfect at all) are a big step up from tedious Daily quest

They are basically the same thing, except you auto accept them and are kinda random(ish).

PvP being less of a gear check and more of a skill expression is a step in the right direction

I'm not a huge PvPer but the community isn't very happy with the current state, I can let this one slide since I don't have the best PvP knowledge.

Legendary Items are completely unbalanced and you just need luck and many many hours of play before getting what you need to be competitive.

This only affects the top percentile, casuals don't really min/max and are just happy to get a legendary. I will admit the system isn't perfect, but it's not the shitstorm everyone claims it to be.

Legions was atrocious for alts until patch 7.3

2 months after release I already had 2 alts that were almost as good as my main, and I only play 2-3 hours top per day, and although I'm speaking from personal experience, people in my guild didn't struggle with alts that much. As of now, my 3 top alts have 10 ilvl less than my main with very little effort (main is 940, don't raid mythic). This expac has been very good on alts, imh.

Legion forces you to play one spec and one spec only, and focus all your effort into it, and changing spec means you have to do the same proces all over again, effectivly putting yourself at an handicap in power curve, compared to others.

This is YOUR personal opinion, at this point, you can have 2 specs that function perfectly for all kinds of content in the game, excluding competitive mythic raiding (this is MY personal opinion, see how this works?).

Many stories are (as of right now) at a dead end with no explanation, and some characters are even going agaisnt what they said: (example: Sylvanas telling she wants to avenge Vol'jin leading the horde, and she goes on doing her personall things - Anduin feeling the responsability of his father and wanting to come to help us at the broken shore, and then jsut disappear and do nothing at all).

You keep going back and forth between saying the story is good and then claiming it isn't, make up your mind and/or learn how to properly communicate your thoughts. Storytelling will never fully satisfy the whole population. Again you're stating your personal opinion.

The overall size and scale of the zones is too small, with no room to breath, lots of terrain obstacles, mountains and so on, giving the feeling of everything being cramped up in a single spot.

Again, personal opinion.

While the Alliance and the Horde are fighting the legion together, there are lots of narrative ways to revamp the old Faction identity, something that as of right now is in shambles, especially for the Horde.

Personal opinion.

The amount of grinding needed to empower yourself and stay at the top of the game is insane, resulting in a power abyss between even a bad player with lot of time and a good player with less time.

Top of the game is either competitive mythic raiding or competitive PvP, the vast majority of players don't need this "insane grinding" that you speak of.

The patches have been dilatated over the weeks, resulting in very small new things to do in each week, giving the overall illusion that all the patches had not much to offfer.

Content pacing is fine, people will complain either way. This is, once again, your personal opinion.

Patch 7.2 was dowright an atrocious questline, very far off of what thy should have done to hype up the imminent kill of Kil'Jaeden (one of the biggest character lorewise) resulting in him dieing out of nowhere like an idiot.

Personal opinion.

You have every right to express your opinion and this was mostly a "well" written post, just don't assume your opinion is the same as everyone else's.

For me, Legion has been a blast and there hasn't been a day that I had nothing to do to better my character.

[Korlick]

Legion is coming to an end "soon"

Unsubstantiated.

World quests (while not perfect at all) are a big step up from tedious Daily quest

They are basically the same thing, except you auto accept them and are kinda random(ish).

PvP being less of a gear check and more of a skill expression is a step in the right direction

I'm not a huge PvPer but the community isn't very happy with the current state, I can let this one slide since I don't have the best PvP knowledge.

Legendary Items are completely unbalanced and you just need luck and many many hours of play before getting what you need to be competitive.

This only affects the top percentile, casuals don't really min/max and are just happy to get a legendary. I will admit the system isn't perfect, but it's not the shitstorm everyone claims it to be.

Legions was atrocious for alts until patch 7.3

2 months after release I already had 2 alts that were almost as good as my main, and I only play 2-3 hours top per day, and although I'm speaking from personal experience, people in my guild didn't struggle with alts that much. As of now, my 3 top alts have 10 ilvl less than my main with very little effort (main is 940, don't raid mythic). This expac has been very good on alts, imho.

Legion forces you to play one spec and one spec only, and focus all your effort into it, and changing spec means you have to do the same proces all over again, effectivly putting yourself at an handicap in power curve, compared to others.

This is YOUR personal opinion, at this point, you can have 2 specs that function perfectly for all kinds of content in the game, excluding competitive mythic raiding (this is MY personal opinion, see how this works?).

Many stories are (as of right now) at a dead end with no explanation, and some characters are even going agaisnt what they said: (example: Sylvanas telling she wants to avenge Vol'jin leading the horde, and she goes on doing her personall things - Anduin feeling the responsability of his father and wanting to come to help us at the broken shore, and then jsut disappear and do nothing at all).

You keep going back and forth between saying the story is good and then claiming it isn't, make up your mind and/or learn how to properly communicate your thoughts. Storytelling will never fully satisfy the whole population. Again you're stating your personal opinion.

The overall size and scale of the zones is too small, with no room to breath, lots of terrain obstacles, mountains and so on, giving the feeling of everything being cramped up in a single spot.

Again, personal opinion.

While the Alliance and the Horde are fighting the legion together, there are lots of narrative ways to revamp the old Faction identity, something that as of right now is in shambles, especially for the Horde.

Personal opinion.

The amount of grinding needed to empower yourself and stay at the top of the game is insane, resulting in a power abyss between even a bad player with lot of time and a good player with less time.

Top of the game is either competitive mythic raiding or competitive PvP, the vast majority of players don't need this "insane grinding" that you speak of.

The patches have been dilatated over the weeks, resulting in very small new things to do in each week, giving the overall illusion that all the patches had not much to offfer.

Content pacing is fine, people will complain either way. This is, once again, your personal opinion.

Patch 7.2 was dowright an atrocious questline, very far off of what thy should have done to hype up the imminent kill of Kil'Jaeden (one of the biggest character lorewise) resulting in him dieing out of nowhere like an idiot.

Personal opinion.

You have every right to express your opinion and this was mostly a "well" written post, just don't assume your opinion is the same as everyone else's.

For me, Legion has been a blast and there hasn't been a day that I had nothing to do to better my character.

[Eurhetemec]

Korlick, his point was for everyone to express their opinion, so you going through and saying "personal opinion" to each of his points really seems like me going to the gym and saying "You're exercising!" all the people there one at a time. Well... yes... obviously.

Again this canard re: WQs being "the same as dailies" is bizarre in the extreme. As someone who did dailies in every expansion, I don't remotely agree. Dailies didn't grant you useful, gear and resources on a regular basis. Most dailies granted you either just rep and gold, or shoddy low-value tokens/currency and rep and gold. Not things you could actually use. Plus with dailies you were expected to do all of them, every day. That's obviously not remotely possible with WQs, and totally changes player psychology around them - instead of trying to do all of them, people do the ones they want (or the tiny number they need to get a box).

I swear by the end of the thread there is NOTHING that people unanimously agree or disagree upon

Dude, if you find a large enough room, there is literally nothing you can get everyone to agree on. I mean literally nothing. Not a single thing. So that's a kind of irrelevant point. No matter how brilliantly, amazingly wonderfully well-designed a game system is, someone, somewhere, probably on this forum, is HORRIBLY OFFENDED by it, considers it a blood-insult against his family and so on.

The OP is quite clearly asking for opinions, not dictating them. But let's be real - most of what he's saying is quite a commonly-held opinion throughout the playerbase. There will always be contrarians, or people who have nothing to say but "That's just like, your opinion, maaaaaan", but that's just life.

[Korlick]

Korlick, his point was for everyone to express their opinion, so you going through and saying "personal opinion" to each of his points really seems like me going to the gym and saying "You're exercising!" all the people there one at a time. Well... yes... obviously.

Again this canard re: WQs being "the same as dailies" is bizarre in the extreme. As someone who did dailies in every expansion, I don't remotely agree. Dailies didn't grant you useful, gear and resources on a regular basis. Most dailies granted you either just rep and gold, or shoddy low-value tokens/currency and rep and gold. Not things you could actually use. Plus with dailies you were expected to do all of them, every day. That's obviously not remotely possible with WQs, and totally changes player psychology around them - instead of trying to do all of them, people do the ones they want (or the tiny number they need to get a box).

When someone states "we", he's speaking for other people too. His opinion is not the same as mine, or yours. All generalizations are bad (including this one).

[Eurhetemec]

When someone states "we", he's speaking for other people too. His opinion is not the same as mine, or yours. All generalizations are bad (including this one).

I agree, but what he actually said was:

"Legion is coming to an end "soon", and we can now start to lay down what we liked and what we didn't like about Legion. I'll start xpressing my opinions and i hope you'll do the same."

Check the grammar and punctuation. He is NOT absolutely NOT saying "all the below opinions are shared by all. He had two sentences for a reason. First sentence is "Let's all share our opinions on Legion's pros and cons". Second sentence is "These are my opinions, please tell me yours". The we is not being used in that way. You have misread his words.

I mean, do you need me to bold every proposition in those sentences? Let's do that. He's VERY clear, frankly.

[Feali]

They really aren't.

There's a gigantic difference between having to go grind quests to get rep to get crummy rewards over the course of weeks, like, say Cata/MotP dailies, and to really need to do all of them to even "keep up", and being able to go out into the world and choose to get actual, relevant rewards, right now, not after a few weeks of grinding.

If you think they're "literally the same", well, please don't misuse "literally" like that, because, no that's not even arguable, and I think you are really forgetting what dailies were like.

The WoD dailies were kind of a transitional phase between the two, but the big difference is that WQs are things you have a choice about doing, are fun, and are immediate in every sense of the world - you immediately are on them when you arrive in the right place, and you immediately get the reward. The scaling is a huge deal too - that you keep getting at least potentially relevant rewards is massive.

Relevant rewards? You can't be serious. 90% of them are AP, Order Resources and Gold. The rest is useless gear. And if you want to keep up on reputation you HAVE to do all the WQ. There's no choice.

[Feali]

am i the only one that thinks artifact + world quests are cons?? I keep seeing everyone praise them

No I'm with you 100%!

[Eurhetemec]

Relevant rewards? You can't be serious. 90% of them are AP, Order Resources and Gold. The rest is useless gear. And if you want to keep up on reputation you HAVE to do all the WQ. There's no choice.

I think that attitude is representative of a very small percentage of the playerbase, frankly, Feali, and you simply can't "do all the WQ" to "keep up on reputation" unless you're a 8hrs+/day hardcore player, so no, that's nonsense in a broader sense. Nor, more importantly, do you NEED to do them for the rep, because important gear isn't really gated behind them in the way it often was with Daily quests.

In a very narrow sense, for only 8hrs+/day hardcore players, yeah, they're more similar, but that's really very few people. I'm sure you're going to tell me you only play 2-3 hours a day, but dude, I respect you think that, but I've friend'd countless people who say on forums, and really seem to believe that they "only play WoW 2-3 hours a day", but who I can see are playing 5-6-7-8 or more hours a day on a fairly regular basis, just with the odd day where they only play 1-2 or even don't play.

[DeicideUH]

am i the only one that thinks artifact + world quests are cons?? I keep seeing everyone praise them

IMO, Artifact grind is a con, but the Artifact itself is not. Love the stories and appearances of Artifacts, but the grind of AP is not fun.

WQs are, in general, a better system than MoP dailies (except as storytelling devices) or WoD Apexis quests. They work when you are just after Emissary chest or when you see a reward you find nice, but they are overused in Legion because you feel forced to grind Reputation (for Paragon chest) and AP. If not for that small details, WQs would be very fine.

IMO, World Quest system would be better if they removed or changed Paragon reputation, and then left only the rare/elite/dg/raid/profession WQs. So, you have fewer WQs in the map, but they have better rewards in general, and many of them would require a small party to complete.

[Eurhetemec]

Or.... JUST MAYBE... Feali is right...

Well, surely you have some reasoning to support that opinion? You and Feali are severely in the minority in your opinion on this, which is fine, doesn't mean either side is right or wrong - this is a matter of opinion, and trying to make all "OBJECTIVE INTERNET FACTS!!!!" is shenanigans of the silliest kind. We might as well put on pirate hats and do a little dance if we're going to do that. But either way, neither of you have really expressed any reasoning behind the opinion, just a "Well they're obviously the same!".

I mean the immediacy of rewards, the wider variety of rewards, the higher relative power of rewards, the lack of necessity of a multi-week rep grind (you can get stuff from it, but it's more optional), and the decreased tedium because of the vastly larger selection of quests are pretty big differences, I'd say.

Can they be improved? Sure. Definitely.

Are they "literally the same" as was claimed, as Dailies. No. That's abusing the word "literally". You're participating in dragging the word towards meaning "metaphorically". Please stop that.

You don't have to like them. No-one is saying that. But to say they're identical is really bonkers. The immediacy alone is a huge difference.

Actually I would agree if your sentence was changed to the bolded part.

I have no earthly idea what the "playerbase" thinks, because it is like a few thousand people on forums, but millions out there. And people here are usually far more dedicated to the game, both in opinion and time dedicated (when they checked the people who unlocked flying, briefly into the Draenor and Legion pathfinder, it was under 25% of the active accounts had it unlocked, but a good deal over 50% on this forum.)

But yeah...obviously you are right....you will never find something that 100% of people agree upon.

Sure I'm happy with that change but it's not just this forum, it's virtually everywhere I've seen WoW discussed, whether it's the official forums, various Discords, the comment sections of articles, and so on. I agree that's not the playerbase, but it's some sort of odd shadow of it at least.

And yes people here are way more dedicated - but my experience is that more dedicated people like WQs way less, that they become irrelevant for them faster, and that they grind them to the point where they become a lot less fun. So if anything the high dedication (nice euphemism btw) levels here mean people are predisposed to dislike them.

[Garybear]

Liked

1. I personally loved legendaries. They felt like an entire new set of talents to choose from.
2. Titanforging felt great for casual pvers. There was always a reason to do things and carry friends. I would often get upgrades just from helping a friend gear their fresh 110 and it felt very rewarding. It probably subconsciously made me want to help new players more.
3. AP was an amazing idea, I could level up my character after leveling up.

Didn't like

1. Artifact knowledge- I understand the point of catch-up artifact knowledge ap, but, it felt like all of my efforts this week would mean nothing next week.
2. I did not like the lack of a pvp set bonus. Pvp gearing feels so shallow this xpac. I used to casually pvp but I just do not think the rewards are really worth it anymore.

[Arbs]

Great list here!

[Eurhetemec]

I would honestly go back to mop dailies just not as many, idk maybe i love mop too much.

MoP dailies seemed custom-designed for people who wanted to log on every day, and griiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind incredibly boring content then log off. I found them incredibly tedious, like staggeringly boring. Normally it is completely impossible for me to get sleepy playing a game, but MoP dailies, jesus. Wow. I've literally lost consciousness doing them. No other game has ever made me that bored. Cata dailies gave it a good attempt I admit.

I'd rather be able to go "Oh I just want to get these one or two cool things, then I'll go do some dungeons or whatever", not this super-OCD-feeling "Sorry guys I can't do any dungeons tonight, I have to do my dailies and they'll take 67.8 minutes if I go the fastest possible route". I don't want to lose a goddamn hour or near that of my life every damn day to the same exact goddamn dailies. Maybe, yeah, sometimes the rewards from WQs aren't very exciting, but that's a good thing, because it means I can ignore them and play parts of the game that are exciting, instead of dull.

On top of that, the lack of a Cata/MoP-style daily facegrind means I don't sudden "fall off a cliff" content-wise. That happened in Cata particularly badly. I finished all the rep grinds, or got them as high as I possibly needed, and then what? My only reason to play WoW was to log and do raids. For 2-3 hours. Twice a week. Jesus. No wonder I canceled my sub.

Right, so WQs (dailies), Class Halls (Garrisons), Legendaries, RNG and grinding currencies including Paragon reputation or Concordance will all be on the "Con" List big time - but I bet it all will be in the next x-pac (with a vengeance) - not least because they have been tried in some form or other in the game for years...and hate them or not, it seems to be the pervese situation where it still keeps people playing.

I mean..there hasn't been an x-pac where this forum hasn't been making endless hate threads about dailies ever since they were introduced...but they just don't go away.

Yep, but what I think is interesting is that people hate WQs a lot LESS in general than they did previous dailies, even here, where we kind of everything (yes I used we!). YMMV of course. I also think Garrisons got about 10x the hate of Class Halls, so yes whilst they will still be there, I expect the systems in the next expansion to be more fun version of the systems in this one.

[Feali]

I think that attitude is representative of a very small percentage of the playerbase, frankly, Feali, and you simply can't "do all the WQ" to "keep up on reputation" unless you're a 8hrs+/day hardcore player, so no, that's nonsense in a broader sense. Nor, more importantly, do you NEED to do them for the rep, because important gear isn't really gated behind them in the way it often was with Daily quests.

In a very narrow sense, for only 8hrs+/day hardcore players, yeah, they're more similar, but that's really very few people. I'm sure you're going to tell me you only play 2-3 hours a day, but dude, I respect you think that, but I've friend'd countless people who say on forums, and really seem to believe that they "only play WoW 2-3 hours a day", but who I can see are playing 5-6-7-8 or more hours a day on a fairly regular basis, just with the odd day where they only play 1-2 or even don't play.

I just don't get the hate for dailies. It's 1-2 hours and you're done. I don't feel like I'm missing out on something when I'm not online. And yes this is a hardcore player mentality even though I'm not even a hardcore player anymore I stopped raiding at the end of MoP. But that's not a WoW thing only for me. It's just my FOMO. It's just nice to have an end. Isle of Quel'danas daily style is my preferred method.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Pros: Literally more things in the game than I could ever do while keeping a job and a life outside of the game.
Cons: People make threads complaining that is a bad thing daily.

[Darkguyver2020]

How? They are literally the same thing except you automatically accept them.

Because they utilized the whole continent rather than a small pocket area reserved solely for max level or daily content. That's thanks mostly to the new level scaling system.

[epLe]

I agree with OP for most part I guess..

Except firstly what you wrote about PvP, which is totally wrong, PvP'ers got screwed so much:
"PvP being less of a gear check and more of a skill expression is a step in the right direction"

With the ilvl cap gone, the gear check (power creep) is kinda worse than it has been since cata.
Templated profiles, with next to no customization makes PvP feel more like MOBA than it ever has.
Prestige system though, is like almost as terrible grind as the vanilla system.
Compare prestige to AP-grind, and PvE'ers cant say a word of how "forced" they are to play one char.

Which brings me to the second major flaw in OP's post; everything people have to do to be "competitive".
AK system makes the AP come for free more or less, I got 6 100chars, all got lvl 60+ artifact, and some of them I hardly played at all.
Legendaries is abit different, but seriously compared to any previous legendary system, whiners whine just for the sake of it.

[DeicideUH]

Artifact "system" is what i don't like, story and stuff is great.

I would honestly go back to mop dailies just not as many, idk maybe i love mop too much.

I loved MoP, but the initial daily system was terrible. Too many dailies, valor gear behind reps, rep gating behind other reps; it was very taxing for the players. When they tweeked it in 7.1, it got way better, as you could focus on one faction at a time and most factions had something like 3-5 quests per day. Also, once you were exalted, you could abandon that grind.

WQ system is kind of like that, but it has flaws of course. Emissary defines what faction you'll grind that day, and WQs don't need you to go to the base, accept them, move to the location of the quests. But they are all over the map and require a lot of travelling, which is not fun.

IMO, a mixed system would be better. You could go to a zone per day, talk to the emissary, he gives you 3-5 quests in the same region of that zone. Once you selected a emissary, you couldn't go to another. In addition to this daily hub system, there would be WQs, but instead of so many, it would be just the dg/raid/profession/rare (blue)/elite ones. In essence, 1-3 WQs per zone.

[Feali]

Because they utilized the whole continent rather than a small pocket area reserved solely for max level or daily content. That's thanks mostly to the new level scaling system.

Exactly. That's not the WQ system that's great just the scaling.