“It’s gonna end with concentration camps..."

[Slant]

It's a term they have given themselves. It wasn't made up by someone "on the left", it's a term they adopted for themselves.

This is correct. They hated being called nazis all the time. Some part of their clogged brains realized that "nazi" was not a positive term. So that's why they used "alternative right". Except, that now is tainted and not much better than nazi. So these days they tried to retaliate with the "alt-left" thing, but funnily enough, that doesn't stick at all. I'm guessing they're now rethinking their choices and try to come up with a new term. Perhaps "alt-alt-right", considering they're not really creative to begin with.

[ati87]

Oh nazi's are going to put people in camps again? So are they going to cry so much till their tears are going to flud the rivers? Because that's the only god dam way you're white nazi ass is going to put anybody in camps

Nothing but a god dam snowflake who ,I suspect, are all actually closeted homosexuals.

[Allybeboba]

The figure in 2015, was 1.8, I haven't seen where that's been re-estimated, but even if it is slightly overblown that's the 2nd largest religious group in the world.

As for your points, that is fine, but you're not taking issue with Islam itself at that rate, rather you are taking issue with certain Imams, Countries, or groups. There are millions, upon millions of Muslims living in, North America, India and Europe living peacefully.

Look at groups like The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda just to name one of several. If all of Christianity were to be blamed for their actions, it could be called a religion with problems too.

The Bible also prescribes the death penalty for things like Audultry, Prostitution of a Priest's daughter, A child who continually disobeys his parents, not honoring the Sabbath and the list goes on. We've just decided as a society that certain aspects like that are no longer acceptable. They need to decide the same, and while most of them have there's still strongholds of them stuck in the past, where this was what you did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_...e#cite_note-26

So yes I agree, some interpretations of the Koran and converting it into a State run doctrine, is not advantageous for Christians, or even the Muslims enduring it, but it has less to do with the religion as a whole and more to due with their cultural beliefs.



ISIS isn't unspeakable... Unless you meant.......

Yes, the one that must remain unspoken. I shall leave it up to everyone’s imagination to what that is though. For it really could be anything couldn’t it?

[Tijuana]

What would be the material difference between telling a woman from China "You can't live here, no Chinese allowed!" and "You can only live here if you forsake everything that is Chinese!"

Because most Civic Nationalists cannot tell the difference between Civics and Culture. What is the difference between having to be a white person, and telling someone they must act white in every respect but can physically not be white.

- - - Updated - - -



So the difference is between telling a Chinese person "No Chinese allowed" and "You cannot be Chinese here."

- - - Updated - - -



What is the material difference between telling a Chinese woman "No Chinese allowed!" and "You cannot be Chinese here!"

I mean, I was just making a point about words. Now you have ascribed me a position on the matter, and it's conveniently one you disagree with and can argue against. We call this straw manning here on the internwebz.

You are tripping over your own racism. Saying act white is racist. Saying don't act white is racist.

CULTURE doesn't have a color, at least not any culture you want to be a part of.

[Theodarzna]

I mean, I was just making a point about words. Now you have ascribed me a position on the matter, and it's conveniently one you disagree with and can argue against. We call this straw manning here on the internwebz.

You are tripping over your own racism. Saying act white is racist. Saying don't act white is racist.

CULTURE doesn't have a color, at least not any culture you want to be a part of.

What I am saying is Civics is just government systems, a loyalty to a state. There is thus no reason the pledge of allegiance cannot be uttered in Mandarin, Spanish, or Russian. If it is purely CIVIC based, then culture should not even be a factor at all. A civic nationalism would be by default multicultural.

What many so-called civic nationalist are is just ethnic nationalists, where as the Alt-Right are Racial Nationalists. At the end of the day there isn't a civic nationalist under the sun who doesn't effectively want everyone to just integrate and behave as a white Anglo-American does. But why? If civics is just civics? Why does culture matter at all?

[Theodarzna]

I don't know who claimed that civic nationalists have an obsession or agenda with culture. My own country is ruled by a civic nationalist party. The main thing that sets them apart from the other political parties is that they're a bit heavy-handier with immigrants, but never in a dictatorial, oppressive or absurd way (like some right-wing populist parties à la Trump try to do). They got sued a few times for 'racism', but the courts always sided with them and so far they've managed to create very efficient laws when it comes to sending economic refugees back to their home country and in cracking down on terrorism.

To me they just come across more as the anti-populist party. They focus on facts and results and don't get swept along with all the racist nonsense and fearmongering other right-wing parties generally do. They won most of the votes in my country purely through being very rational and perhaps most importantly being able to sell themselves as the most rational and intelligent of the bunch.

I have never met an American Civic Nationalist who did not explicitly state integration into White Anglo-American culture wasn't a major plank of their position.

[Theodarzna]

Maybe that is an american thing, I don't know. The original meaning of the word Civic Nationalism is putting the well-being of your nation on the front while still respecting liberal values and freedom, eg. not engaging in racism, prejudice against socialism and other negative right-wing qualities.

Aren't nearly all americans flag-huggers anyhow? Seems to be a pretty american thing to have these absurd 4th of july celebrations and standing for the national anthem and saluting the flag etc.

I guess I've only seen Civic Nationalism as being a thing people take on to differentiate themselves from the Alt-Right, which IMHO the Alt-Right aren't even Ethnic Nationalists but Racial Nationalists.

I was neither born in America nor particularly enchanted with it as a country, except geographically and a love for many people I've met here. What I do notice is Americans often insist on adopting Anglo-American cultural signals, language, habits, dress, ect.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe that is an american thing, I don't know. The original meaning of the word Civic Nationalism is putting the well-being of your nation on the front while still respecting liberal values and freedom, eg. not engaging in racism, prejudice against socialism and other negative right-wing qualities.

Aren't nearly all americans flag-huggers anyhow? Seems to be a pretty american thing to have these absurd 4th of july celebrations and standing for the national anthem and saluting the flag etc.

I guess I've only seen Civic Nationalism as being a thing people take on to differentiate themselves from the Alt-Right, which IMHO the Alt-Right aren't even Ethnic Nationalists but Racial Nationalists.

I was neither born in America nor particularly enchanted with it as a country, except geographically and a love for many people I've met here. What I do notice is Americans often insist on adopting Anglo-American cultural signals, language, habits, dress, ect.

[Tijuana]

What I am saying is Civics is just government systems, a loyalty to a state. There is thus no reason the pledge of allegiance cannot be uttered in Mandarin, Spanish, or Russian. If it is purely CIVIC based, then culture should not even be a factor at all. A civic nationalism would be by default multicultural.

What many so-called civic nationalist are is just ethnic nationalists, where as the Alt-Right are Racial Nationalists. At the end of the day there isn't a civic nationalist under the sun who doesn't effectively want everyone to just integrate and behave as a white Anglo-American does. But why? If civics is just civics? Why does culture matter at all?

What on earth are you on about now, with what language the pledge is spoken in? Who are you even talking to? I never even considered this as an issue, or an actual thing. Now that you bring it up, I think it ought to be spoken in the official language of the country the pledge is given to. Do I care enough to protest or make a fuss if it's not? NOPE NOPE NOPE

Multiculturalism is a dirty word. You need to understand that. It's a bigoted concept. The notion that some people are not allowed to enjoy things, because another culture thought of them first, is factual bigotry, by definition. This logic carried all the way out, is completely ridiculous. It is NOT a good thing for there to be several societies living among each other, while having no interaction. That is not a nation, that is a prison of the mind and heart.

I feel like someone should point out to you that NOBODY alive is calling themselves a civic nationalist, whatever it is you think that means. This is not a movement. This is not even a thing. I have literally never heard the term used until now. So, rest assured, whatever it is about it that you find super scary, it's not something to worry about. The alt-right has become a racist movement, due to anyone non-racist wanting NOTHING to do with that term. It's not nationalist, or civic. It's racist.

Now, is it possible to be a white nationalist, without being a racist? On paper, I guess. I mean, at the core level, there is nothing wrong with being pro whatever your race is. But it's pretty hard for that to manifest in a way that isn't against other races, in practice. This is why BLM is a racist movement. On paper, being pro black isn't racist. But in practice, the group is a hate group that is completely tied up in bigotry against white people, and to a lesser degree, other races.

Civics doesn't matter. Nobody thinks it does but you. Culture is what everyone is fighting for. The culture of America is what they are fighting for.

[PC2]

I have never met an American Civic Nationalist who did not explicitly state integration into White Anglo-American culture wasn't a major plank of their position.

Did they actually say they care about Anglo-American details like dress and food? I've never heard that personally, it's always been about learning English. For example, signs and papers automatically have multiple copies in diverse areas. It's not the end of the world, but it's also not an improvement that adds new meaning. It's just more clutter than there needs to be.

[Theodarzna]

Did they actually say they care about Anglo-American details like dress and food? I've never heard that personally, it's always been about learning English. For example, signs and papers automatically have multiple copies in diverse areas. It's not the end of the world, but it's also not an improvement that adds new meaning. It's just more clutter than there needs to be.

By default a Civic Nationalist would logically have to be for that sort of clutter though because the assertion of even a specific language is privileging a specific ethnic group and its culture.

[Yvaelle]

Maybe that is an american thing, I don't know. The original meaning of the word Civic Nationalism is putting the well-being of your nation on the front while still respecting liberal values and freedom, eg. not engaging in racism, prejudice against socialism and other negative right-wing qualities.

Aren't nearly all americans flag-huggers anyhow? Seems to be a pretty american thing to have these absurd 4th of july celebrations and standing for the national anthem and saluting the flag etc.

Yes, virtually all Americans are highly patriotic. Because of that, the Nationalists in the US believe they are somehow more patriotic or more true to the supposed vision of the American founders (selectively glorified). Which is vaguely interpreted to mean isolationist, white, evangelical christian, males, where women and people of color are property, and there is an eternal war against the British against which all such men must be ready to fight at all times: hence the bunkers full of guns and ammo.

Of course, villainizing the British isn't very effective since the modern Brits don't really give a shit about any of these people - and lately are on a pretty isolationist kick of their own. So instead they villify "The Left" - which to them means, "anyone who criticizes our beliefs".

[PC2]

By default a Civic Nationalist would logically have to be for that sort of clutter though because the assertion of even a specific language is privileging a specific ethnic group and its culture.

I see. I think there also needs to be a streamlining movement. In college a person from India claimed that Sanskrit is superior because it has the most efficient grammar to express programs. I have huge doubt that an ancient language is going to be optimal in 2017, but I think everyone should admit there is a better way of doing things and we shouldn't celebrate every variation just because it's there.

[Theodarzna]

I see. I think there also needs to be a streamlining movement. In college a person from India claimed that Sanskrit was superior because it has the most efficient grammar to express programs. I have huge doubt that an ancient language is going to be optimal in 2017, but I think everyone should admit there is a better way of doing things and we shouldn't celebrate every variation just because it's there.

Why shouldn't we? There is objectively no superior language for one. But there is no reason that doesn't push into the hurdles and minefield of basically ethnic nationalism. By default you have to be for that "Clutter" or you are not really a CivNat.

[Yvaelle]

Why shouldn't we? There is objectively no superior language for one. But there is no reason that doesn't push into the hurdles and minefield of basically ethnic nationalism. By default you have to be for that "Clutter" or you are not really a CivNat.

I thought we agreed Celtic was objectively the best language?

Isn't that why Tolkien Elves speak Sindarin/Quenya, which are based off of Welsh, Celtic, and Finnish?

I propose all street signs must now be posted in Welsh, out of respect for Elvish culture



Edit: This wasn't meant to be entirely sarcastic - I'm not stating that posting signs in other languages is inherently bad. Further, I love that the hippies on nearby Vancouver Island are massive Tolkien nerds too and have labelled much of the BC coast in Tolkien references, like Port Mellon - it would be fun to go even further!

- - - Updated - - -

Nice Source you got there buddy.

The term was invented and popularized by Richard Spencer, a white supremacist, for the explicit purpose of sugar-coating white supremacy: for his intent to popularize it. Originally the term began with his articles between 2008-2011 before it got any traction at all, the first of which can be found here:

http://takimag.com/article/the_conse...#axzz4JRcIyz7D

[TITAN308]

Trump alt-right Nazi have declared war on anyone not them. So I'm not surprised as I said get legal learn to use the 2A to protect themselves.

I mean not that alt-right nazis are not bottom of the barrel, but you act as if the hardcore left is any different?

[Protean]

Low intelligence + fear = extremists. This is how it has always been.

[Deleted]

I don't know who claimed that civic nationalists have an obsession or agenda with culture. My own country is ruled by a civic nationalist party. The main thing that sets them apart ...

I think the question is not what sets them apart, but what makes them nationalists.
A nation is not just a country or a state: it's some idea that glues together some people. So, failing race, nationalists often focus on culture. I don't know which party or country you're talking about, but I'll just throw this guess in: do they not support some policy about some local language?.

Because most Civic Nationalists cannot tell the difference between Civics and Culture. What is the difference between having to be a white person, and telling someone they must act white in every respect but can physically not be white.

The main difference, to me, is that the idea of whiteness can evolve. So, to belong they must "act white", but what that implies behaviorally can be subverted by the people accessing the nation: eating Chinese food is as white as it gets.

[PC2]

Why shouldn't we? There is objectively no superior language for one. But there is no reason that doesn't push into the hurdles and minefield of basically ethnic nationalism. By default you have to be for that "Clutter" or you are not really a CivNat.

Fair enough. As long as the ethnic clutter isn't doing something physically intrusive like blocking roadways then I can just ignore it and do my own thing.

[TITAN308]

The hardcore left didn't get a president elected though.

So what? My comment was directed at his "alt-right is like you are with us or against us".

That is the far left mirror image.

[Cerus]

Guess that means all muslims are terrorists, all blacks are thugs, every BLM member/supporter is a terrorist and all liberals are violent morons. Good to know.