Poll: Do you think celebrities should stay out of politics?

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  1. #21
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Ok heavy thread coming please try to keep it civil obey the forum rules you don't have to give a reason for your answers.

    Do you think celebrities should stay out of politics?

    Do you think business should be involved with politics?

    Do you think churches should be tax exempt?
    Yep. Celebrities are people like anyone else. As long as we live in a representative, democratic system, every member of the public has a right to get involved if they so wish.

    In what terms? I don't have an issue with business owners pursuing their political interests, but I'd support harsh limits on political donations, to prevent the wealthy (business-oriented or otherwise) from having more "say" than anyone else. Beyond that point, business owners have as much right as anyone to get involved.

    Churches? As long as they are completely apolitical. Have no opinion expressed or supported in favor of any candidate or party, or even political policy. The sole exception I would make would be in protecting their own religious rights, for themselves. By which I mean having the freedom to ask for religious holidays off from work without discrimination, or the right for Jehovah's Witnesses to deny blood transfusions for their own medical treatment. Not anything that affects anyone else, so no pro-life advocacy allowed, no stance on marriage equality, etc. Get into any of that, poof, there goes your tax-free status, permanently. Outside of tax-free status, if you're fine giving that up, and with the same eye to political donation caps above (which should be applied to coordinated collection efforts as well), they should have as much voice as anyone. I just have an issue with demanding a tax-free status while also demanding the right to meddle in politics; that was supposed to be a "you don't bother us, we won't bother you" arrangement.


  2. #22
    Celebrities have freedom of speech just as much as the next person, I just wish people would stop treating them like subject matter experts on shit.

  3. #23
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Celebrities have freedom of speech just as much as the next person, I just wish people would stop treating them like subject matter experts on shit.
    They're not automatically less-expert on those issues than politicians. Especially if we're talking a celebrity like Al Franken, who put in the same (or better) efforts as any politician did when he became an elected official.

    Take Jimmy Kimmel in his recent rants against Cassidy and his bill. Kimmel knows what he's talking about on that subject. Cassidy either does not (which I deem unlikely), or is lying about the facts (which I deem more likely). As Kimmel has made clear over the last few days.


  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Ok heavy thread coming please try to keep it civil obey the forum rules you don't have to give a reason for your answers.

    Do you think celebrities should stay out of politics?

    Do you think business should be involved with politics?

    Do you think churches should be tax exempt?
    Well kind of, maybe. We as the public shouldn't give their words so much weight simply because they're famous, because that's the real problem. A celebrity can be a great champion for a worthy cause.

    No, businesses should serve the people like the government does.

    No, they're part of a country like everyone else and should pay for its functions like everyone else does.

  5. #25
    No, of course not. Rich people who got rich through business exert a heavy influence on politics all the time. People who acquire influence with the people through other means shouldn't feel shy to exert whatever influence they can.

    The real answer is that John Q Public needs to be smarter about what influences he accepts or rejects. Some lying piece of crap coal industry spokesman implies the industry is ripe for a comeback if only you elect their orange chimpanzee, then you should be smart enough to ignore him... just like you should be smart enough to ignore the bleached bimbo telling you vaccines are a conspiracy.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They're not automatically less-expert on those issues than politicians. Especially if we're talking a celebrity like Al Franken, who put in the same (or better) efforts as any politician did when he became an elected official.

    Take Jimmy Kimmel in his recent rants against Cassidy and his bill. Kimmel knows what he's talking about on that subject. Cassidy either does not (which I deem unlikely), or is lying about the facts (which I deem more likely). As Kimmel has made clear over the last few days.
    Jimmy isn't as knowledgeable as he makes himself out to be. His son received care from CHLA is a private charitable hospital with a $233 million budget. Yes, charity works and matters.

    Kimmel's monologue, while moving and passionate, made an illogical leap from what happened to his baby to the need for Obamacare. He made vague claims about people getting denied coverage prior to Obamacare because of a pre-existing condition and jumped to the conclusion that the same thing could have happened to someone else's baby. His argument may have carried more weight had he provided a concrete example but he did not, which suggests that Kimmel was thinking with his heart rather than his mind. It's hard to fault him for that after what he's been through, but thinking with one's heart does not usually translate to good policy.

    There are better solutions to help those with pre-existing conditions than a blanket mandate, but in the meantime Kimmel and all other Americans should unite behind helping private charity hospitals like CHLA to ensure that those in need are able to receive to good quality care. That should truly be something that people can agree upon regardless of partisan differences.

  7. #27
    Their opinions shouldn't be given more weight than anyone else but they can say what they want.

  8. #28
    I voted "don't care" because I don't care. They can use their status and platform to tout whatever agenda they've got going on and I couldn't care less. I'm not hanging onto every word my favorite entertainers say. I'm not watching the news hoping to hear some juicy gossip about this celebrity dating that celebrity. I don't have the time to live vicariously through the lives of celebrities because I'm too busy living a fulfilling life of my own. So their opinions, just like the rest of their lives, do not affect me one way or the other. It would be nice if the masses could be just as strong willed as I am and perhaps form opinions on their own without having to rely on celebrities to be their political compass, but I guess that's what makes them the masses.
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  9. #29
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    It's funny everyone saying that churches shouldn't be tax exempt without even knowing why they are tax exempt.

    Endus provides the perfect reason why they are tax exempt; he's just too alt-left to know it.

    Not anything that affects anyone else, so no pro-life advocacy allowed, no stance on marriage equality, etc. Get into any of that, poof, there goes your tax-free status, permanently.
    So they're allowed to be religious as long as they don't advocate for parts of their religion that might offend the sensibilities of liberals. Gotcha.

    (Hint: Taxes are and have been used as a hatchet to punish dissenting views.)
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    No.
    No.
    No.
    Close the thread guys, it was over after this.

  11. #31
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    For the record, churches aren't tax exempt "because Jesus," they're tax exempt because they're recognized non-profit organizations under the IRC and are therefore tax exempt.

    If you want to tax churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and all other manner of religious dwelling, your only argument is to push for all recognized non-profit organizations to pay taxes.

    So that means homeless shelters, soup kitchens, non-profit hospitals, and all other manner of non-profit now have to pay property taxes because some people think churches are icky.


    Probably not much to be gained there.
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    Kaleredar is right...
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yep. Celebrities are people like anyone else. As long as we live in a representative, democratic system, every member of the public has a right to get involved if they so wish.

    In what terms? I don't have an issue with business owners pursuing their political interests, but I'd support harsh limits on political donations, to prevent the wealthy (business-oriented or otherwise) from having more "say" than anyone else. Beyond that point, business owners have as much right as anyone to get involved.

    Churches? As long as they are completely apolitical. Have no opinion expressed or supported in favor of any candidate or party, or even political policy. The sole exception I would make would be in protecting their own religious rights, for themselves. By which I mean having the freedom to ask for religious holidays off from work without discrimination, or the right for Jehovah's Witnesses to deny blood transfusions for their own medical treatment. Not anything that affects anyone else, so no pro-life advocacy allowed, no stance on marriage equality, etc. Get into any of that, poof, there goes your tax-free status, permanently. Outside of tax-free status, if you're fine giving that up, and with the same eye to political donation caps above (which should be applied to coordinated collection efforts as well), they should have as much voice as anyone. I just have an issue with demanding a tax-free status while also demanding the right to meddle in politics; that was supposed to be a "you don't bother us, we won't bother you" arrangement.
    WOW. That is amazing. I myself am pro-choice as well. But denying that abortion involves no person, aside from the mother, is just a completely disgusting view to have.

  13. #33
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    For the record, churches aren't tax exempt "because Jesus," they're tax exempt because they're recognized non-profit organizations under the IRC and are therefore tax exempt.

    If you want to tax churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and all other manner of religious dwelling, your only argument is to push for all recognized non-profit organizations to pay taxes.

    So that means homeless shelters, soup kitchens, non-profit hospitals, and all other manner of non-profit now have to pay property taxes because some people think churches are icky.
    https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/chariti...s-and-politics

    Specifically, they're 501(C)(3) organizations, which is supposed to be non-political. I'm really just pushing that this be enforced strictly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    WOW. That is amazing. I myself am pro-choice as well. But denying that abortion involves no person, aside from the mother, is just a completely disgusting view to have.
    That doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying.

    Telling a parishioner that the Church doesn't support her having an abortion is fine.

    Pushing to deny that right to everyone not in your church is what crosses the line into political advocacy.


  14. #34
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Do you think celebrities should stay out of politics?
    No, they have just as much right as the rest of us to be involved. However, people really should stop acting like their opinion means anything more than any other random person.

    Do you think business should be involved with politics?
    No, corporations should not be allowed to throw their weight around to get their way... The people who run them, as individuals, have every right to be involved in politics, but company resources (AKA money) have no place there.

    Do you think churches should be tax exempt?
    No.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    WOW. That is amazing. I myself am pro-choice as well. But denying that abortion involves no person, aside from the mother, is just a completely disgusting view to have.
    Careful Tijuana because I am Pro life and agree with you but right now you are backing yourself into a corner. Opinion is fine but unless you can quantify that abortion involves a person, I am afraid you will need some evidence to back that up.

    It isn't that I disagree, but where are you going with that?
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  16. #36
    Of course not... They're humans, they have a right to speak their opinions like everyone else.

  17. #37
    No, they're citizens like you and I. The same constitutional rights apply.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Celebrities have freedom of speech just as much as the next person, I just wish people would stop treating them like subject matter experts on shit.
    The American public voted for a celebrity to the presidency...

    That's a lot of people who should have heeded your advice.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by PhantasmagoriaX View Post
    Do you think celebrities should stay out of politics? They can voice their opinion but do i want them running when they have no political background? Hell No.

    Do you think business should be involved with politics? Nope

    Do you think churches should be tax exempt?
    Nope, EVERYONE should be paying taxes.
    Every politician at some point ran without any political background.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Ok heavy thread coming please try to keep it civil obey the forum rules you don't have to give a reason for your answers.

    Do you think celebrities should stay out of politics?

    Do you think business should be involved with politics?

    Do you think churches should be tax exempt?
    1. No, however, award shows or sporting events are not the time or place to shove their views down peoples throats (looking at you Streep and Kap) If they want to do political or social campaigns on their own time for whatever cause tickles their fancy that is great.

    2. That is a complicated question, on one hand you dont want businesses (small or large) being able to decide elections but on the other hand businesses are usually the ones hardest hit by political decisions.

    3. They should either be required to follow the same rules and regulations of every other non-profit organization or be taxed.

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