Witnesses yell 'he can't hear you' as cop shoots deaf man

[urasim]

I get it, I just think it is non-sense. If you do X and X solves Y, X was a solution to Y. Basic logic.

But doing X will restrict freedom. That will piss members of group 1, and the entirety of group 2, off.

Nothing in real life is simple. It's not basic logic when you're dealing with a large group of people. As a liberal I want to maximum amount of freedom I can get. But I realize that I can't have the maximum amount of freedom because it comes at the cost of other people's freedoms.

[Gohzerlock]

Another incident where police disregard tasers.

[Skalm]

One cop used a taser, the other cop fired 5-10 bullets. Which cop is the moron?

Well..everyone knows a cop has to shoot at least 10 times to hit their target (even the cop knew this).

[SL1200]

It's becoming clear to me. We need to take fire arms away from police.

[urasim]

I understand that. Which is why I stated that we do a cost-benefit analysis to see if doing anything (or something) is better than doing nothing.

Is that even possible?

If the argument the right wants to maintain is gun rights are more important than gun deaths. That is fine. But then we should not be surprised when there are school shootings and various massacres with guns. Since we have agreed that this is an acceptable cost to having freedom when it comes to guns.

The left argument (or people on the left that are sensible about gun rights) would say that we need some restrictions (that are constitutional) to lower gun deaths.

The right disagrees, or disagrees on what is acceptable... so we keep having this fight, and nothing gets done.

Gun rights ARE more important than the small amount gun deaths from homicides or accidents.

I've only ever heard one argument from our side that I agree with, and that's the fact that guns shouldn't ever be in the hands of mentally ill and criminal. Aka far better background checks. What are some of the others? Refresh my memory please.

[Tyrianth]

International Global, Universally known approaching a law enforcement officer with anything that looks like a weapon will get you killed.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. But I hate to break it to you, that is a "international global". Believe it or not, in a lot of countries, cops don't carry guns!

[telygroar]

60 cm rod pipe... so, a metal stick mean for walk ? If my feet is hurt and i need a stoick to walk i will be shoot to death when i go near a cop asking for a direction in this city ?

[Ghostpanther]

I doubt they get in trouble at all. They did their part by the book. How were they supposed to know he is deaf or has no criminal background? I'd sure like to know where mind reader cops are stationed.

Exactly. If the witness account of what happened agrees with the police report, the police will be justified. Makes no difference if he could not hear them or not, you do not walk toward a cop with a 2 foot metal pipe in your hand as they are clearly pointing a firearm at you. That is asking to be shot.

[urasim]

60 cm rod pipe... so, a metal stick mean for walk ? If my feet is hurt and i need a stoick to walk i will be shoot to death when i go near a cop asking for a direction in this city ?

Are you a dwarf? How does a 2 foot pipe help anyone walk?

It might be possible, or maybe not, but we need to get data/research to figure that out. The NRA/right have blocked all governmental research into gun deaths.

We have all the stats we need. I don't know what more you want.

What do you consider a few gun deaths? The US has a pretty high gun death number (which may or may not be accurate) compared to every other developed nation that has guns.

They don't have a gun for every person living in their countries like the US does.

I do not know what the left wants, I am not actually on the "left" as far as the Democrats are concerned.

I'm not a member of the democratic party. But I'm a liberal. We are both part of the left. From what I gather, we're on the libertarian side as well. If you don't know what they want, that's fine, but I think you should know that they want all guns gone. Think of them as the opposite of the conservative.

The only thing I proposed is doing research on gun deaths, background checks, etc, etc, understanding as much as we can about the subject, and then coming to a rational solution that is constitutional. Which might include doing nothing, and leaving the status que. That was too "liberal" for Tijuana.

I honestly don't know what more can be researched on this. We have lots of statistics. We should just make it harder or impossible for mental ill to get guns. Hard as fuck to implement a system to test for that without infringing on someones rights, though.

Some info we have:

Visualizing gun deaths: Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world
http://www.humanosphere.org/science/...-s-rest-world/

https://i.imgur.com/5VilBO8.png?1

I know what the stats are.

It's around 11,000 per year out of more than 300,000,000. Most are gang related and they got their guns illegally. You'll have 300+ times that if you went after their guns like many democrats want.

[Ghostpanther]

I understand that. Which is why I stated that we do a cost-benefit analysis to see if doing anything (or something) is better than doing nothing.

If the argument the right wants to maintain is gun rights are more important than gun deaths. That is fine. But then we should not be surprised when there are school shootings and various massacres with guns. Since we have agreed that this is an acceptable cost to having freedom when it comes to guns.

The left argument (or people on the left that are sensible about gun rights) would say that we need some restrictions (that are constitutional) to lower gun deaths.

The right disagrees, or disagrees on what is acceptable... so we keep having this fight, and nothing gets done.

There are already are restrictions. More so in some states than others, but the Supreme Court ruled it is up to each state how far they want to restrict firearm usage. As long as they do not try to outright ban ownership of such. But those in the stricter states argue their surrounding states are not strict enough and thus they get a bleed over effect from them. Well, welcome to the US Constitution. It is not up to a few states to decide how to interpret it. Or even the majority of the population. Thankfully.

[Nalorakk]

Was he approaching the cop with the metal rod while the cop was visibly pointing a gun at him?
If so the cop did nothing wrong.

International Global, Universally known approaching a law enforcement officer with anything that looks like a weapon will get you killed.

Maybe in a country where you allow bloodthirsty bullies to acquire authority.

Things like this don't happen outside America as frequently, maybe 1 or 2 a year, not 1 or 2 a week.

[Deleted]

Wait a second. The Deaf guy was running at the fucking cops with a metal rod.

I'd fucking take him out too, Deaf or no.

[Ghostpanther]

Ok, so are you ok with the status quo? What would you personally want to see changed, if anything?

- - - Updated - - -

Tougher penalties for those who commit crimes with firearms would be one and also, no one should be able to sell a firearm without having a license to do so, which would make them required to do background checks. But other than those two, you will have higher death's from firearms in the US simply because of there being more and a Constitutional right to keep and bare them. So it is not so much being ok with such statistics, but accepting that with some rights, there is always going to be some costs involved.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Yeah, things like this is why I won't be backing the blue or the mindless bootlickers that endorse this bullshit. No disobeying an order intentionally or not isn't a death sentence. I don't care how in fear for the lives the cop is, then don't do the job.

[Risale]

How cops treat an unarmed populace is dramatically different from how they treat an armed populace. Expecting similar standards is pretty unrealistic. You would have to convince cops that dying twice a week was worth the money. I'm not sure you could pull that off.

Metal pipe (gets killed) vs knife wielding muppet shouting allahu akbar (gets the crap beaten out of him but still alive) I call shooting somebody overkill but then again I am from the EU and have proper gun laws.

[deadman1]

Maybe in a country where you allow bloodthirsty bullies to acquire authority.

Things like this don't happen outside America as frequently, maybe 1 or 2 a year, not 1 or 2 a week.

When your country has as many gangs, cartels and areas that a poorer than some third world countries you can make a comparison, until then it's pointless.

- - - Updated - - -

Metal pipe (gets killed) vs knife wielding muppet shouting allahu akbar (gets the crap beaten out of him but still alive) I call shooting somebody overkill but then again I am from the EU and have proper gun laws.

There are plenty of places in the EU that you can own guns. Also why should the cops risk their lives to disarm a person with a weapon? There is no excuse to approach a cop with a weapon regardless of intent or type of weapon, that is an objective fact.

[Attackrabbit]

There are plenty of places in the EU that you can own guns. Also why should the cops risk their lives to disarm a person with a weapon? There is no excuse to approach a cop with a weapon regardless of intent or type of weapon, that is an objective fact.

Don't think anyone was claiming there are no guns in the EU. As to the second bit maybe because that's their job? Fine, if someone is coming at you with a gun then fire away, I get why that would happen but when it's 2 police officers vs 1 man with a pipe / cane / stick / whatever it was in this case then their training should have enabled them to take him down especially with one of them tazing him.

[deadman1]

Don't think anyone was claiming there are no guns in the EU.

It literally responded to their post talking about the EU as a monolith that has the same gun laws. Also implying that one specific law is objectively superior to others and that somehow it's the guns that kill and not the criminals holding them.

but then again I am from the EU and have proper gun laws.

As to the second bit maybe because that's their job? Fine, if someone is coming at you with a gun then fire away, I get why that would happen but when it's 2 police officers vs 1 man with a pipe / cane / stick / whatever it was in this case then their training should have enabled them to take him down especially with one of them tazing him.

I agree they should taze/pepper spray them, then again my point is there just isn't a defensible reason to approach a police officer with a weapon.

[urasim]

But wouldn't you be infringing on mentally ill people if you took their guns?

Like how we infringe on the rights of a baby and don't allow them to have guns, alcohol, or recreational drugs. Among a host of other things. It's why we don't give licences to people who can't see properly. We don't allow people to drive certain vehicles because they're not 100% safe to do so. There are a long list of restrictions we put on people because they're likely to be a danger to others or themselves.

What changes would you like to see ideally, from your point of view, not what is politically "possible" but what you personally would change if you could in regards to gun laws?

Everyone who's mentally stable and above a certain age should be allowed guns, but there also needs to be a lot of requirements in order to get them. Background checks as well as some sort of test to determine their ability to safely handle a weapon. There could be courses that people can take to prepare for tests. This would also create jobs... Why do we have driving test but not gun tests? The right would definitely be against this IF it were paid through taxes, so you'd have to find a way for them to be privatized.

[Halicia]

Metal pipe (gets killed) vs knife wielding muppet shouting allahu akbar (gets the crap beaten out of him but still alive) I call shooting somebody overkill but then again I am from the EU and have proper gun laws.

Originally he wasn't carrying a pipe. The cops' story changed to that later.