[Guardian] 7.2.5 Legion Guardian Guide by Pumps

[Valkon]

Hey guys - did they change something in regards to BiS dps legos?

Looking at the new 7.3 mythic logs, i see people using LaTC + cloak on fights like hosts and mistress, which is completely puzzling to me since i thought those 2 heavy add fights would dominate with incarn and elize/luffas.

The main difference on host/mistress is that there are basically adds up full time whereas incarn gives you an (admittedly large) boost every 3min.
Incarn on mistress can also be very dangerous if you don't plan it properly.

[oAllElseFailo]

The main difference on host/mistress is that there are basically adds up full time whereas incarn gives you an (admittedly large) boost every 3min.
Incarn on mistress can also be very dangerous if you don't plan it properly.

I guess I'm just surprised that burst isn't beating galatic with those legendaries. So far i've been okay popping incarn on mistress but even still, my numbers aren't reaching nearly what those guys with shoulders + cloak are running. Even on hosts i'm at 1.2 and the top person is at 1.7.. like shit, it's such a drastic difference. I'll have to try it out now

[exochaft]

While I'm admittedly not looking at the logs this second, usually the top parsings are more likely the result of how the fight was executed versus the legendaries. For example, a while back there was a #1 parse for Fire mage for Mistress that was leagues above everyone else, and it was because most of the raid being dead towards the end and TONS of adds were out. Loads of adds that weren't dying due to dead DPS meant lots of AoE padding. On the contrary, if you have a lot of DPS classes that can wreck the adds and no one dies, good luck on anyone parsing really high because the adds die too fast. I've seen Host kills where only one or two ppl hit the adds so they can parse high, as well. More on the legendaries, nothing wrong with using them as they're better for sustained damage, if it works then it works.

[roi]

It's great that we have a very competitive alternative to the old luffa/elize thrash thrash thrash playstyle, incarnation (while very strong) is such a boring talent, I'm happy to pretty much never use it these days. Arcane bear is love :3

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Hey guys - did they change something in regards to BiS dps legos?

Looking at the new 7.3 mythic logs, i see people using LaTC + cloak on fights like hosts and mistress, which is completely puzzling to me since i thought those 2 heavy add fights would dominate with incarn and elize/luffas.

They're probably using moonglaives too.
With the cloak they perform really well on short burst, which is amazing on mistress/host. It's rreally close though

[Exigent]

I just received a 940 Writhing Heart of Darkness. What's the consensus on this trinket these days?

I've mostly been running full defensive or full offensive trinkets depending on the content.

[Valkon]

Writing heart gets significantly better as the expansion progresses and we get access to higher crit levels. At around 32% crit, I can keep the buff up for quite high uptime and at ~940 it's about 10% DR for both phys/magic at 3 stacks. I personally find it to be one of the best defensive trinkets in the game, especially if you're swimming in crit anyway.

[roi]

Yo NA dudes, what can you tell us about the crucible talents? What feels best for you on live?

[exochaft]

Yo NA dudes, what can you tell us about the crucible talents? What feels best for you on live?

Assuming you mean the Shadow/Light row, since the final row is self explanatory. I think the druid discord has a spreadsheet pinned that can be used for figuring out traits, but I've been able to test Torment of the Weak, Secure in the Light, and Infusion of Light. I should note that these abilities can proc off of things like Brambles, and they can be applied to non-primary targets (for example, you can proc the ability on potentially any enemy hit by an AoE attack). The damage done can also crit, even the DoT ones.

The defensive benefits of the Light abilities listed... yeah, didn't even notice them much outside of soloing. Even then, they're about 2% of my self-heals.

The offensive capabilities are fairly noticeable on single target (AoE situations, our bear abilities just put them to shame). There's quite a bit of RNG involved, but personally Secure in the Light usually wins with Torment of the Weak slightly behind depending upon how lucky I got with refreshing/stacks, and Infusion always seems much lower than both. But fear not, as together they made up about 10-12% of my damage done on single target.

I was curious if the proc chance for these abilities increases proportionally to the number of relics with the abilities. For example, if you had three relics with Torment of the Weak, is it 3 times more likely to proc? The biggest issue with Torment of the Weak is that you need to proc it 3 times to get a max stack rolling, and it's very possible to be stuck on one/two stacks and have it expire with just one relic (80% uptime on average, stack size varying). Having two relics with Torment of the Weak may be more powerful, but at that point two Secure in the Light relics might just win anyways since there's no ramp-up time.

Others can chime in, since it's completely random which traits you get. Was curious about other traits that may be more powerful. On a personal note... I got terrible weapon traits in my third row on all my relics, super sad bear.

[Selerian]

Is there a priority list regarding the 2nd tier of the Crucible light and darkness traits damage-wise?

-update-

Ok so from messing around with the spreadsheet it seems that the ordering for Darkness is:

For single target
1. Torment the weak
2/3. Shadowbind = Chaotic Darkness
4. Dark Sorrows
5. Murderous Intent
6. Master of Shadows

For Multi target
1. Torment the weak
2. Dark Sorrows
3. Shadowbind
4. Chaotic Darkness
5. Murderous Intent
6. Master of Shadows

For Holy (for the 4 traits that do dmg and not just heal/absorb)
For ST
1. Secure in the Light
2. Infusion of Light
3. Shocklight
4. Light Speed

For Multi target
1. Shocklight
2. Light Speed
3/4. Infusion of Light = Secure in the Light

Now regarding whether you should choose the Darkness or Light trait and provided that you are not forced to do so by the 3rd tier trait (i.e. when you're going for the middle/neutral 3rd tier trait), Master of Shadows and Murderous Intent is always worse than their Light counterparts (the 4 that deal dmg that is) and Torment the weak, Shadowbind and Chaotic Darkness are always better. Only debatable is Dark Sorrows which is always better for Multi target but loses to ST vs Secure the Light and Infusion of Light.

[oAllElseFailo]

Shouldn't the priority be based on your 3rd talent tree? For example, all 3 of my thrash relics have vicious bite as the last trait but 1 is a light side with a kinda shitty tier 2 (i think it's shocklight, could be wrong, not home) but regardless, wouldn't that vicious bite trait beat the 2nd tier choices, thus, you always go down the line depending which side that is?

Christ, i hope that made sense..

[Emancptr]

Shouldn't the priority be based on your 3rd talent tree? For example, all 3 of my thrash relics have vicious bite as the last trait but 1 is a light side with a kinda shitty tier 2 (i think it's shocklight, could be wrong, not home) but regardless, wouldn't that vicious bite trait beat the 2nd tier choices, thus, you always go down the line depending which side that is?

Christ, i hope that made sense..

The trait choice at T3 crucible does not always outweigh the T2 choice between Shadow and Light. The T2 choices have significant variance between the best and worst possible traits, and the T2 traits contribute significant dps (compareable or higher than the Mangle Trait).

There are times where you will be given choices such as, Shadow (Worst T2 DPS Trait) + Mangle Damage vs Light (Best T2 DPS Trait) + Mauler (or other minor dps increase trait) and the Light path can be better.

This is why you should be using the spreadsheet if you're interested in min/maxing the path to go down.

[oAllElseFailo]

The trait choice at T3 crucible does not always outweigh the T2 choice between Shadow and Light. The T2 choices have significant variance between the best and worst possible traits, and the T2 traits contribute significant dps (compareable or higher than the Mangle Trait).

There are times where you will be given choices such as, Shadow (Worst T2 DPS Trait) + Mangle Damage vs Light (Best T2 DPS Trait) + Mauler (or other minor dps increase trait) and the Light path can be better.

This is why you should be using the spreadsheet if you're interested in min/maxing the path to go down.

Well, fuck.

I simmed it yesterday and still went the light way since it said mangle outweighs the T2 shadow but i think that spreadsheet is saying otherwise. Gotta double check when i get home now.

[Selerian]

Also, when your preferred 3rd tier trait is in the middle/neutral position, you can take it from both light or darkness side so you have the luxury of choosing the best one.

[exochaft]

Well, fuck.

I simmed it yesterday and still went the light way since it said mangle outweighs the T2 shadow but i think that spreadsheet is saying otherwise. Gotta double check when i get home now.

It's not a big deal, as long as you didn't sacrifice a high damage shadow trait for a no damage light trait.

Be that as it may, I think the value of the traits varies depending upon your stats. For example, while Torment of the Weak may seems to be the strongest trait, it likely depends on your haste values. My default bear gear prioritizes haste, so I can manage to get a 3-stack of Torment fairly often. However, Secure in the Light still consistently beats out Torment of the Weak more often than not since Torment requires a good amount of 3-stack uptime in order to really shine. Even with Bloodlust/TimeWarp/Heroism, it's not uncommon that I cannot get a 3-stack of Torment for the duration of the haste buff. If I could guarantee high uptime on 3-stack of Torment, it'd certainly win, but that's just unrealistic in practice with just one relic with the trait.

Don't get me wrong, Torment of the Weak is definitely strong for ST, but I think it's value may be overstated a bit from what I'm seeing on live servers in practical situations.

*edit* - On a personal note, I really do hate that you're locked in with no method of changing your mind when it comes to the traits. I feel like there really are some "wrong" choices you can make with the traits, but there's no way to really known until you try it outside of using external resources. Not advocating being able to freely change the traits without a hefty cost, I just wish there was a method. /end rant

[Chaoslock]

Hey all,

Im currently playing my tank druid as a mythic + only character just as an alt to play when not raiding. I was wondering if there is a guide or something for the stat prio, talents, bis legendarys and so on. If someone could point me in the right direction that would be awesome.

Many Thanks,

Chaos

[oAllElseFailo]

Hey all,

Im currently playing my tank druid as a mythic + only character just as an alt to play when not raiding. I was wondering if there is a guide or something for the stat prio, talents, bis legendarys and so on. If someone could point me in the right direction that would be awesome.

Many Thanks,

Chaos

There's a google doc on the very front page buddy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...fZOJ466zU/edit

It's 7.2.5 but not like anything really changed for us in 7.3

[Hellshout]

snip

Good luck on invitational man.
I am actually watching your Grand Final now. I know Meod is very good, but take Robo next time, I wanna see some Feral in action

[davidrm15]

About 7.3 , is umbral moonglavies best dps trinket for single/aoe dps?

[Bunnychaser]

About 7.3 , is umbral moonglavies best dps trinket for single/aoe dps?

They're great on aoe in general, more so with the cloak, but for single target they're pretty mediocre. Agility trinkets are still our go-to for most situations single-target.