The nature of Light and Void (audio drama spoilers)

[mingarrubia]

I think a major point is being missed here. It's not even that Light is not good, or that Void isn't evil. It's that our realm was created from the interaction between them, and both are equally important to us.

Xe'ra is not evil or trying to enslave people over lies she is telling them. To her, those things are true. It's almost like a reverse "evils beyond our understanding" situation. The Light and Void can't comprehend our world. The average mortal still tends to value what the Light does. There was a point near the end about how the Void couldn't comprehend things like love which Alleria used to win. Ultimately, the Void's ultimate goal is still far more evil from a mortal's perspective.

Xe'ra's goals can often be an anathema to us, but the Void is by default. Because they are extremes, there can be good and bad depending on the context. This also gives new perspective to all of the proud declarations from the Old Gods and their minions. It seems likely that the reason they're so arrogant about the future they promise us is because, like Xe'ra, it's what they know to be true, but they're only seeing half of the story themselves. It's like a two-dimensional creature trying to comprehend a three-dimensional universe.

Could Elune be the three-dimensional piece that completes the picture? An entity of pure balance of some sort?

[Telogrus]

Xal'atath: "The Light would have your kind remain obedient and stagnant. I offer the gifts of freedom and strength. I hope you remember my kindness."

[mingarrubia]

Xal'atath: "The Light would have your kind remain obedient and stagnant. I offer the gifts of freedom and strength. I hope you remember my kindness."

Freedom and strength... at the price of insanity

[KrakHed]

and wants nothing else than genocidal destruction.

That's what the Twilight's Hammer wants. There was plenty of life on the world in the time of the Old Gods. But the Twilight's Hammer believes in the apocalypse and killing the world, so that's what the Old Gods will sell them. They're con-artists, and a doomsday cult is just begging to be exploited. The Old Gods and the Void may eventually destroy everything, bit I don't think that's their goal. That's just the logical end point of unchecked expansion and growth.

[Wilfire]

Interesting question. The Twilight Cult actually did have Paladins working for it, and it did use Benedictus and Farthing to exploit the kind of faith the Light teaches to promote the ideals he wanted to promote as "the only way". It's possible that as one of the weaker yet more cunning Old Gods, he could have taken to dabbling in the ways and methods of the Light to serve his own interests.

An Old God deciding to usurp the Light to make itself like a god unto both Light and Void, to make itself the absolute ideal of all and become the one true path, well. That would be scary.

It's worth noting that his servant Azshara, once known as the Light of Lights, is still known as the Light beneath the Tides, if I recall correctly. So, N'zoth certainly knows how to exploit the imagery of the Light.

The scariest thing we could possibly hear from N'zoth is pious and sanctimonious, yet utterly insane, preaching. The worst of both worlds. He who will bring the Eternal Conflict to its end, breaking down reality as we know it as he reforges the many truths as one, to form a path where everything leads down the same road into his awaiting gullet. N'Zoth, the truth of all truths. All is one in N'zoth, and N'zoth is all. His tendrils far-reaching and many, representing an inescapable destiny no matter which path you choose to take and which direction you choose to go. All roads lead to N'zoth. All roads are N'zoth. The beginning and the end, and all that comes in between.

But seriously, N'zoth trying to become the Demiurge would make for an interesting plot.

That would be a very unexpected turn of events. Also this quote from Cho'gall: "The Master's eye sees all that was and all to be, or not!" So N'Zoth can see all possible paths through the Void but he also knows that only one of them is true.

[Raetary]

Could Elune be the three-dimensional piece that completes the picture? An entity of pure balance of some sort?

could be.

also, her light as blue.
and looking at discipline priests blue seems to be kind of the color for balance.

[Noomz]

That's what the Twilight's Hammer wants. There was plenty of life on the world in the time of the Old Gods. But the Twilight's Hammer believes in the apocalypse and killing the world, so that's what the Old Gods will sell them. They're con-artists, and a doomsday cult is just begging to be exploited. The Old Gods and the Void may eventually destroy everything, bit I don't think that's their goal. That's just the logical end point of unchecked expansion and growth.

That's what the Void does. Look at the Old Gods and tell me that it's not what they want. No matter how you twist this, the Void is a destructive force. It's even stated in Chronicles that what the Void wants is to dominate and remake the world like it was before the Ordering of the Titans, where the Old Gods waged endless war on one another and the Elemental Lords, eventually corrupting the Elements.
They want to eat souls and have their way with them. They want to control and corrupt life into a nightmarish hell. No matter how you try and twist that, it doesn't suddenly stop being bad.

[Piamonte]

could be.

also, her light as blue.
and looking at discipline priests blue seems to be kind of the color for balance.

its also the color of arcane, to which elune is associated

[mingarrubia]

could be.

also, her light as blue.
and looking at discipline priests blue seems to be kind of the color for balance.

Not to mention balance druids and their relationship to the moon

Now that I think of it, maybe Elune doesn't represent the balance between light and shadow, but the balance between arcane and life magic (as in the Arcandor)...

[KrakHed]

That's what the Void does. Look at the Old Gods and tell me that it's not what they want. No matter how you twist this, the Void is a destructive force. It's even stated in Chronicles that what the Void wants is to dominate and remake the world like it was before the Ordering of the Titans, where the Old Gods waged endless war on one another and the Elemental Lords, eventually corrupting the Elements.
They want to eat souls and have their way with them. They want to control and corrupt life into a nightmarish hell. No matter how you try and twist that, it doesn't suddenly stop being bad.

Yes. Unchecked and undirected expansion and growth. Not the desolate dead world that the Twilight's Hammer wanted, but one that's far more entertaining. Full of life. Full of death. All the suffering and sick joys the Void has to offer. What's left to do when everyone is just dead?

[Frontenac]

Did this line stand out to anyone else? Void worlds bathed in fire I understood, but what the heck are these monolithic crystalline beings sustained by light? Sounds like only one kind of creature I ever heard of. Until now, the Naaru have always been presumed to be beings of pure Light -- but just as Void magic involves souls, could Light also involve souls? Are the Naaru filled with the souls of those who have been Lightforged or "touched by the Light"?

In the Seat of the Triumvirate, when discussing how Lura fell to the Void, some bit of dialogue notes that "the only instances I have ever heard of always involved mortals. What interesting implications..."

After listening to the audio drama, I'm thinking that the Naaru have not been totally honest about how they came to be and what they are. I think mortal souls are involved, and that's why they can transition between the Light and Void states.

Luminous crystals the size of mountains... Sounds pretty much like the Naaru's ships, and they are said to be able to sustain their mortal passengers in the audio drama. And they are made immortal. Turalyon should have died long ago during the thousand of years of war. For the Void, they would appear "encased" and their immortality could be seen as a curse.

As for the darkening of naaru being linked to mortals, maybe the empowerment of mortals by the naaru can deplete their energy in time. The implication is that their involvement with mortals may lead to their fall to darkness.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. Unchecked and undirected expansion and growth. Not the desolate dead world that the Twilight's Hammer wanted, but one that's far more entertaining. Full of life. Full of death. All the suffering and sick joys the Void has to offer. What's left to do when everyone is just dead?

Yet, the vision of the Void we had in the audio drama was exactly that: void. Empty, cold, barren darkness.

[Golden Yak]

Yet, the vision of the Void we had in the audio drama was exactly that: void. Empty, cold, barren darkness.

That's probably why Void entities wanna come and play in our dimension.

[Zyky]

but she does the same to Turalyon and Alleria in the audio drama (although these two accepted with no problem). She lied to them about the future, showing a Stormwind-Quel'thalas Alliance, with a high elf Sylvanas.

So, Blizzard is clearly moving to "Babylon 5" look about the Light and the Void.

You're actually false, what she showed Alleria was the 'present' Sylvanas and Arator at Stormwind remembering Alleria and Turalyon.

[KrakHed]

Yet, the vision of the Void we had in the audio drama was exactly that: void. Empty, cold, barren darkness.

At least that portion of the Void is. The description is curiously similar to that of the afterlife Sylvanas went to. Until the things in the dark noticed her. Then they all moved in to play with their new toy. Once they move into the physical realm, they will eventually devour and destroy everything. But that's not the goal. That's just the natural consequence of never being satisfied and always taking more.

Eventually they will deplete every single resource there is. And they will have done so because they felt like it at the time. Cancer, unchecked growth, eventually kills its host.

- - - Updated - - -

Luminous crystals the size of mountains... Sounds pretty much like the Naaru's ships, and they are said to be able to sustain their mortal passengers in the audio drama.

True, it's close. But they mention them being on worlds, not between them.

That would be a very unexpected turn of events. Also this quote from Cho'gall: "The Master's eye sees all that was and all to be, or not!" So N'Zoth can see all possible paths through the Void but he also knows that only one of them is true.

Unexpected, but not entirely a new concept to Blizzard. The Zerg/Protoss hybrid were a perversion of the proper fusion that was to create new Xel'naga. That's why I'm pretty fond of the idea of N'zoth going completely off the rails, simply because he's more able to understand the Light because he's less purely Void than his masters. No matter how frightening and hostile it might still be to him, he'd be able to approach it from the same viewpoint that Alleria and other mortals approach the Void.

He already practically runs the Church of the Holy Light, having corrupted both the Archbishop and his successor. He probably knows the scriptures both inside and out by now. The Void's hunger is often reflected in a deep and maddening curiosity, and N'zoth has always been the most experimental of the Old Gods. He created the Naga, likely detangled the Infinite Dragonflight from time, directed the corruption of the Emerald Dream, and is likely the mastermind behind the Dragon Soul and even the Twilight Dragonflight. N'Zoth is the Old God who has worked most through corrupted mortals, and most prominently infiltrated their ranks.

N'Zoth knows us better than any other Old God. He knows how our world works more than any other. He's cleverer than the others. And perhaps, he can see what his brothers could not. A form of power and way of thinking they might eschew as uncomfortably restraining, but that N'Zoth could find a use for.

[Frontenac]

At least that portion of the Void is. The description is curiously similar to that of the afterlife Sylvanas went to. Until the things in the dark noticed her. Then they all moved in to play with their new toy. Once they move into the physical realm, they will eventually devour and destroy everything. But that's not the goal. That's just the natural consequence of never being satisfied and always taking more.

Eventually they will deplete every single resource there is. And they will have done so because they felt like it at the time. Cancer, unchecked growth, eventually kills its host.

- - - Updated - - -


True, it's close. But they mention them being on worlds, not between them.

They are doing an enumeration of what Alleria sees. She sees darkened worlds burning. Then she sees luminous crystals as big as mountains. That does not mean that the crystals are on the planets.

[Golden Yak]

I've put together some thoughts I've had regarding Light and Void after listening to the audio drama:

Light

Light is the essence of creation, it's even called the Light of Creation by some. It creates existence, reality itself. It makes sense that the Light would therefore trend towards being a force of order, stability, and balance - once you've got reality, you need it to have rules that maintain it, or it'll collapse and be lost. It also makes sense that Light would be a unifying force, since everything comprises one single reality, one whole. Light seems to complement forces like the arcane, which is a magical power of order that seems to act like the 'laws of physics' in a magical sense.

Locus-Walker states that the Light 'seeks one path' and shuns all others. This could be interpreted as the Light seeking one optimum, perfect path to stability and harmony for the sake of preserving reality, and thereby disregarding other methods that are less than optimum or that lead towards greater disunity. This singular directive could be why the Light is such a unifying force - all things in the Light are drawn towards a singular path, creating harmony and unity among them. The naaru, as beings of the Light, project this unifying energy around them to all who exist within the Light, generating a state of belonging, peace, and harmony.

Taken to extremes though, the Light might be seen or actually serve as an oppressive force, unifying those within it towards a singlular state possibly even against their will. Seen with beings like Xe'ra, having a singular vision about what the perfect path should be could lead some to oppress others. I think it might even be possible that sufficiently powerful beings with the Light may draw others into their vision, whether conciously or unconciously - not direct subversion or mind-control, but a kind've overpowering inspiration, an incredibly strong will pulling weaker wills along with it in pursuit of its vision. The Scarlet Crusade might be another example of this, with powerful righteous crusaders drawing many impressionable minds into their fold.

Its natural that most mortal races would be more inclined to the principles of the Light, since mortal societies cannot exist without some degree of order and stability - societies that trend towards chaos and disharmony turn upon and destroy themselves. The enduring principles of the Light are more inclined to create stability, and stability is more likely to aid survival. Hence, it makes sense that mortal races would see the Light as a force for 'good', since its attributes are what allow mortals to survive and prosper. From the point of view of mortals that wish to thrive, the Light is a force for good.


Void

Void is the essence of possibility. While the Light is a force of creation and existence, the Void represents what does not exist - yet. Rather than being a force of emptiness or nothingness, the Void is instead potential - when you take away what does exist, you're left with an absence (hence the term 'Void') but you also create the potential for that absence to be filled with anything.

While the Light trends towards existence and the enduring stability that preserves existence, the Void is a vast ocean of infinite possibility - a singular form of existence is anathema to the Void, a stifling prison that limits possibility. Locus-Walker says that the Void 'seeks every possible path, and sees them all as true' - when an infinite number of roads exist to travel, being confined to a single path would seem like stagnation.

Because the Void contains infinite potienal however, there is naturally a limitless possibility for destruction and wickedness... at least, from most mortal points of view. The Void may be largely without morality as mortals would understand it - from the Void's perspective, its own essence of infinite possibility is 'good', and the stifling order of the Light granting a singular path is 'evil' - the fact that the path of the Light is largely beneficial to mortals while the paths of the Void lead to anarchy and destruction is irrelevant. To the Void, chaos is good and order is bad - its not 'wrong' for mortals to suffer and die in the chaos the Void unleashes, nor is it 'good' for them to prosper in the order of the Light. These things simply aren't a factor. As per Locus-Walker's words, the Void seeks multiple paths - anything that blocks those paths is the only 'immorality' it can perceive.

The Void and its perspectives probably seem crazy to mortals - from the mortal point of view, it is. Again, the Void doesn't regard insanity as 'bad' - it can't be 'bad' as long as its something that exists as a possiblity within the Void's infinite sea of possibility.

Mortals can view the Void's infinite possibilities when exposed to it - this is likely what drives many to madness, mortals being unable to process and rationalize an infinite variety of potential futures they might experience. Alleria experiences several visions that nearly overwhelm her, until Locus-Walker reinforces the view that they are lies. The Void offers 'visions' - potential realities. But some are so unstable and untenable that they literally fall apart - some possibilities are so impossible that they have no substance. This could be seen as representing the Voids' nature as infinite possibility - there exists an ever churning sea of probability that includes some probabilities too 'unrealistic' in a sense to survive as more than dreams or visions, nothing more than hallucinations generated in the mind of an observer. The Void, or possibly the entities within it, also appear to have their own will and desires which influence what mortals see - Alleria refers to the visions as a mix of the Void's memories, plans, and desires.

Void, as a force of chaos and disharmony, would be poison to any lasting society - there would be no unity, no pulling together. Its natural that mortal societies would grow to shun it. However, Void would represent infinite potential to any individual willing to study and exploit it. The disenfranchised among societies might also come to see it as a path to power they do not possess, a means to change their lot in life, which could explain why organizations like the Twilight Cult or other Shadow/Void-worshiping cults are able to amass membership.


Light and Void creating what is neither Light nor Void

In a sense, the Void could be regarded as a sea of dreams - while the Light is what does exist, the Void is what could exist, with varying degrees of possibility. The Light's singular reality is strong and stable, while the Void's multiple potential realities are more diffuse, more insubstantial, hence the two forces maintain equal footing in the balance of power.

According to Chronicle, the Light once existed alone - raw creation force that created nothing, but simply existed. It wasn't until some of the Light faded and flickered and died - creating an absence of existence, a 'Void' in reality where potentiality could now exist - that something besides the Light came into existence. With the collision of Light and Void - creative energy with potentiallity - the universe came into existence. In a sense, the raw creative force of the Light needed exposure to the infinite dreams and possibilities of the Void in order to bring something besides raw existence into being. The Void contained the possibilities, while the Light brought them into being and solidified them as real - no longer in potential, but in actual existence.

The desire to truly exist may be the source of Void entities great hunger - they exist as potential beings, outside reality. They desire to become 'complete', to exist in the realm of reality. The Void Lords cannot manifest long outside their realm and must consume huge swathes of reality to maintain themselves - perhaps they are draining the creative 'Light' from what exists to try and maintain an existence of their own. The Final Titan would be a means for them to finally exist permanently in the realms of order, allowing them to experience the universe forever - as forces of the Void, the fact that this would spread havoc and insanity throughout the cosmos is not something they see as bad. With infinite possibility there are infinite ways to suffer. As long as there's infinite ways to do infinite things, that's ultimate freedom as far as the Void is concerned.


edit - further comment

The notion of Void as infinite potential, is one I'm super happy to see taking shape, because I actually saw this concept used earlier in another awesome game that came out this year called Hollow Knight. It's super awesome and if anyone likes side-scrollers of the Castlevania/Metroid mold, Hollow Knight is the best one of those I've ever played.

Within Hollow Knight there is also a power called Void (or sometimes VOID) portrayed as a chaotic, living darkness that wells up from deep beneath the earth. Very little is revealed about it, but it is described in a couple of interesting ways in various places:

VOID... power... without unity...

VOID, yours is the power opposed.
But yours is potential, eternity potential, force that could deny Time.
VOID, harness shall be placed upon you.
-said by a particular being trying to use the power of the Void for its own plans

Upon playing through Hollow Knight and seeing its descriptions of a dark power called Void as a source of chaotic, infinite potential, it made me want to see the Void in Warcraft presented that way, and it seems like Blizz is taking steps to shape its concept of Void towards that form. Very glad!

[Piamonte]

At least that portion of the Void is. The description is curiously similar to that of the afterlife Sylvanas went to. Until the things in the dark noticed her. Then they all moved in to play with their new toy. Once they move into the physical realm, they will eventually devour and destroy everything. But that's not the goal. That's just the natural consequence of never being satisfied and always taking more.

Eventually they will deplete every single resource there is. And they will have done so because they felt like it at the time. Cancer, unchecked growth, eventually kills its host.

- - - Updated - - -


True, it's close. But they mention them being on worlds, not between them.


Unexpected, but not entirely a new concept to Blizzard. The Zerg/Protoss hybrid were a perversion of the proper fusion that was to create new Xel'naga. That's why I'm pretty fond of the idea of N'zoth going completely off the rails, simply because he's more able to understand the Light because he's less purely Void than his masters. No matter how frightening and hostile it might still be to him, he'd be able to approach it from the same viewpoint that Alleria and other mortals approach the Void.

He already practically runs the Church of the Holy Light, having corrupted both the Archbishop and his successor. He probably knows the scriptures both inside and out by now. The Void's hunger is often reflected in a deep and maddening curiosity, and N'zoth has always been the most experimental of the Old Gods. He created the Naga, likely detangled the Infinite Dragonflight from time, directed the corruption of the Emerald Dream, and is likely the mastermind behind the Dragon Soul and even the Twilight Dragonflight. N'Zoth is the Old God who has worked most through corrupted mortals, and most prominently infiltrated their ranks.

N'Zoth knows us better than any other Old God. He knows how our world works more than any other. He's cleverer than the others. And perhaps, he can see what his brothers could not. A form of power and way of thinking they might eschew as uncomfortably restraining, but that N'Zoth could find a use for.

yeah, it never occured to me that Nzoth likes to create corrupted versions of the dominant powers of Azeroth, thats really interesting

- - - Updated - - -

I've put together some thoughts I've had regarding Light and Void after listening to the audio drama:

Light

Light is the essence of creation, it's even called the Light of Creation by some. It creates existence, reality itself. It makes sense that the Light would therefore trend towards being a force of order, stability, and balance - once you've got reality, you need it to have rules that maintain it, or it'll collapse and be lost. It also makes sense that Light would be a unifying force, since everything comprises one single reality, one whole. Light seems to complement forces like the arcane, which is a magical power of order that seems to act like the 'laws of physics' in a magical sense.

Locus-Walker states that the Light 'seeks one path' and shuns all others. This could be interpreted as the Light seeking one optimum, perfect path to stability and harmony for the sake of preserving reality, and thereby disregarding other methods that are less than optimum or that lead towards greater disunity. This singular directive could be why the Light is such a unifying force - all things in the Light are drawn towards a singular path, creating harmony and unity among them. The naaru, as beings of the Light, project this unifying energy around them to all who exist within the Light, generating a state of belonging, peace, and harmony.

Taken to extremes though, the Light might be seen or actually serve as an oppressive force, unifying those within it towards a singlular state possibly even against their will. Seen with beings like Xe'ra, having a singular vision about what the perfect path should be could lead some to oppress others. I think it might even be possible that sufficiently powerful beings with the Light may draw others into their vision, whether conciously or unconciously - not direct subversion or mind-control, but a kind've overpowering inspiration, an incredibly strong will pulling weaker wills along with it in pursuit of its vision. The Scarlet Crusade might be another example of this, with powerful righteous crusaders drawing many impressionable minds into their fold.

Its natural that most mortal races would be more inclined to the principles of the Light, since mortal societies cannot exist without some degree of order and stability - societies that trend towards chaos and disharmony turn upon and destroy themselves. The enduring principles of the Light are more inclined to create stability, and stability is more likely to aid survival. Hence, it makes sense that mortal races would see the Light as a force for 'good', since its attributes are what allow mortals to survive and prosper. From the point of view of mortals that wish to thrive, the Light is a force for good.


Void

Void is the essence of possibility. While the Light is a force of creation and existence, the Void represents what does not exist - yet. Rather than being a force of emptiness or nothingness, the Void is instead potential - when you take away what does exist, you're left with an absence (hence the term 'Void') but you also create the potential for that absence to be filled with anything.

While the Light trends towards existence and the enduring stability that preserves existence, the Void is a vast ocean of infinite possibility - a singular form of existence is anathema to the Void, a stifling prison that limits possibility. Locus-Walker says that the Void 'seeks every possible path, and sees them all as true' - when an infinite number of roads exist to travel, being confined to a single path would seem like stagnation.

Because the Void contains infinite potienal however, there is naturally a limitless possibility for destruction and wickedness... at least, from most mortal points of view. The Void may be largely without morality as mortals would understand it - from the Void's perspective, its own essence of infinite possibility is 'good', and the stifling order of the Light granting a singular path is 'evil' - the fact that the path of the Light is largely beneficial to mortals while the paths of the Void lead to anarchy and destruction is irrelevant. To the Void, chaos is good and order is bad - its not 'wrong' for mortals to suffer and die in the chaos the Void unleashes, nor is it 'good' for them to prosper in the order of the Light. These things simply aren't a factor. As per Locus-Walker's words, the Void seeks multiple paths - anything that blocks those paths is the only 'immorality' it can perceive.

The Void and its perspectives probably seem crazy to mortals - from the mortal point of view, it is. Again, the Void doesn't regard insanity as 'bad' - it can't be 'bad' as long as its something that exists as a possiblity within the Void's infinite sea of possibility.

Mortals can view the Void's infinite possibilities when exposed to it - this is likely what drives many to madness, mortals being unable to process and rationalize an infinite variety of potential futures they might experience. Alleria experiences several visions that nearly overwhelm her, until Locus-Walker reinforces the view that they are lies. The Void offers 'visions' - potential realities. But some are so unstable and untenable that they literally fall apart - some possibilities are so impossible that they have no substance. This could be seen as representing the Voids' nature as infinite possibility - there exists an ever churning sea of probability that includes some probabilities too 'unrealistic' in a sense to survive as more than dreams or visions, nothing more than hallucinations generated in the mind of an observer. The Void, or possibly the entities within it, also appear to have their own will and desires which influence what mortals see - Alleria refers to the visions as a mix of the Void's memories, plans, and desires.

Void, as a force of chaos and disharmony, would be poison to any lasting society - there would be no unity, no pulling together. Its natural that mortal societies would grow to shun it. However, Void would represent infinite potential to any individual willing to study and exploit it. The disenfranchised among societies might also come to see it as a path to power they do not possess, a means to change their lot in life, which could explain why organizations like the Twilight Cult or other Shadow/Void-worshiping cults are able to amass membership.


Light and Void creating what is neither Light nor Void

In a sense, the Void could be regarded as a sea of dreams - while the Light is what does exist, the Void is what could exist, with varying degrees of possibility. The Light's singular reality is strong and stable, while the Void's multiple potential realities are more diffuse, more insubstantial, hence the two forces maintain equal footing in the balance of power.

According to Chronicle, the Light once existed alone - raw creation force that created nothing, but simply existed. It wasn't until some of the Light faded and flickered and died - creating an absence of existence, a 'Void' in reality where potentiality could now exist - that something besides the Light came into existence. The collision of Light and Void - creative energy with potentiallity - that the universe came into existence. In a sense, the raw creative force of the Light needed exposure to the infinite dreams and possibilities of the Void in order to bring something besides raw existence into being. The Void contained the possibilities, while the Light brought them into being and solidified them as real - no longer in potential, but in actual existence.

The desire to truly exist may be the source of Void entities great hunger - they exist as potential beings, outside reality. They desire to become 'complete', to exist in the realm of reality. The Void Lords cannot manifest long outside their realm and must consume huge swathes of reality to maintain themselves - perhaps they are draining the creative 'Light' from what exists to try and maintain an existence of their own. The Final Titan would be a means for them to finally exist permanently in the realms of order, allowing them to experience the universe forever - as forces of the Void, the fact that this would spread havoc and insanity throughout the cosmos is not something they see as bad. With infinite possibility there are infinite ways to suffer. As long as there's infinite ways to do infinite things, that's ultimate freedom as far as the Void is concerned.


edit - further comment

The notion of Void as infinite potential, is one I'm super happy to see taking shape, because I actually saw this concept used earlier in another awesome game that came out this year called Hollow Knight. It's super awesome and if anyone likes side-scrollers of the Castlevania/Metroid mold, Hollow Knight is the best one of those I've ever played.

Within Hollow Knight there is also a power called Void (or sometimes VOID) portrayed as a chaotic, living darkness that wells up from deep beneath the earth. Very little is revealed about it, but it is described in a couple of interesting ways in various places:




Upon playing through Hollow Knight and seeing its descriptions of a dark power called Void as a source of chaotic, infinite potential, it made me want to see the Void in Warcraft presented that way, and it seems like Blizz is taking steps to shape its concept of Void towards that form. Very glad!

I liked your explanation about how the universo is created, you are right it makes sense that the void, the realm of possibilities when touched by the light, the realm of creation, creates reality. I also liked how you described the void influencing society, the twilight hammer probably gets many followers from society outcasts. the most important members receive visions of power but the least important ones receive visions of a better world for them, all they have t do is to obey the masters.

[ryan11d7]

I've put together some thoughts I've had regarding Light and Void after listening to the audio drama:

Light

Light is the essence of creation, it's even called the Light of Creation by some. It creates existence, reality itself. It makes sense that the Light would therefore trend towards being a force of order, stability, and balance - once you've got reality, you need it to have rules that maintain it, or it'll collapse and be lost. It also makes sense that Light would be a unifying force, since everything comprises one single reality, one whole. Light seems to complement forces like the arcane, which is a magical power of order that seems to act like the 'laws of physics' in a magical sense.

Locus-Walker states that the Light 'seeks one path' and shuns all others. This could be interpreted as the Light seeking one optimum, perfect path to stability and harmony for the sake of preserving reality, and thereby disregarding other methods that are less than optimum or that lead towards greater disunity. This singular directive could be why the Light is such a unifying force - all things in the Light are drawn towards a singular path, creating harmony and unity among them. The naaru, as beings of the Light, project this unifying energy around them to all who exist within the Light, generating a state of belonging, peace, and harmony.

Taken to extremes though, the Light might be seen or actually serve as an oppressive force, unifying those within it towards a singlular state possibly even against their will. Seen with beings like Xe'ra, having a singular vision about what the perfect path should be could lead some to oppress others. I think it might even be possible that sufficiently powerful beings with the Light may draw others into their vision, whether conciously or unconciously - not direct subversion or mind-control, but a kind've overpowering inspiration, an incredibly strong will pulling weaker wills along with it in pursuit of its vision. The Scarlet Crusade might be another example of this, with powerful righteous crusaders drawing many impressionable minds into their fold.

Its natural that most mortal races would be more inclined to the principles of the Light, since mortal societies cannot exist without some degree of order and stability - societies that trend towards chaos and disharmony turn upon and destroy themselves. The enduring principles of the Light are more inclined to create stability, and stability is more likely to aid survival. Hence, it makes sense that mortal races would see the Light as a force for 'good', since its attributes are what allow mortals to survive and prosper. From the point of view of mortals that wish to thrive, the Light is a force for good.


Void

Void is the essence of possibility. While the Light is a force of creation and existence, the Void represents what does not exist - yet. Rather than being a force of emptiness or nothingness, the Void is instead potential - when you take away what does exist, you're left with an absence (hence the term 'Void') but you also create the potential for that absence to be filled with anything.

While the Light trends towards existence and the enduring stability that preserves existence, the Void is a vast ocean of infinite possibility - a singular form of existence is anathema to the Void, a stifling prison that limits possibility. Locus-Walker says that the Void 'seeks every possible path, and sees them all as true' - when an infinite number of roads exist to travel, being confined to a single path would seem like stagnation.

Because the Void contains infinite potienal however, there is naturally a limitless possibility for destruction and wickedness... at least, from most mortal points of view. The Void may be largely without morality as mortals would understand it - from the Void's perspective, its own essence of infinite possibility is 'good', and the stifling order of the Light granting a singular path is 'evil' - the fact that the path of the Light is largely beneficial to mortals while the paths of the Void lead to anarchy and destruction is irrelevant. To the Void, chaos is good and order is bad - its not 'wrong' for mortals to suffer and die in the chaos the Void unleashes, nor is it 'good' for them to prosper in the order of the Light. These things simply aren't a factor. As per Locus-Walker's words, the Void seeks multiple paths - anything that blocks those paths is the only 'immorality' it can perceive.

The Void and its perspectives probably seem crazy to mortals - from the mortal point of view, it is. Again, the Void doesn't regard insanity as 'bad' - it can't be 'bad' as long as its something that exists as a possiblity within the Void's infinite sea of possibility.

Mortals can view the Void's infinite possibilities when exposed to it - this is likely what drives many to madness, mortals being unable to process and rationalize an infinite variety of potential futures they might experience. Alleria experiences several visions that nearly overwhelm her, until Locus-Walker reinforces the view that they are lies. The Void offers 'visions' - potential realities. But some are so unstable and untenable that they literally fall apart - some possibilities are so impossible that they have no substance. This could be seen as representing the Voids' nature as infinite possibility - there exists an ever churning sea of probability that includes some probabilities too 'unrealistic' in a sense to survive as more than dreams or visions, nothing more than hallucinations generated in the mind of an observer. The Void, or possibly the entities within it, also appear to have their own will and desires which influence what mortals see - Alleria refers to the visions as a mix of the Void's memories, plans, and desires.

Void, as a force of chaos and disharmony, would be poison to any lasting society - there would be no unity, no pulling together. Its natural that mortal societies would grow to shun it. However, Void would represent infinite potential to any individual willing to study and exploit it. The disenfranchised among societies might also come to see it as a path to power they do not possess, a means to change their lot in life, which could explain why organizations like the Twilight Cult or other Shadow/Void-worshiping cults are able to amass membership.


Light and Void creating what is neither Light nor Void

In a sense, the Void could be regarded as a sea of dreams - while the Light is what does exist, the Void is what could exist, with varying degrees of possibility. The Light's singular reality is strong and stable, while the Void's multiple potential realities are more diffuse, more insubstantial, hence the two forces maintain equal footing in the balance of power.

According to Chronicle, the Light once existed alone - raw creation force that created nothing, but simply existed. It wasn't until some of the Light faded and flickered and died - creating an absence of existence, a 'Void' in reality where potentiality could now exist - that something besides the Light came into existence. The collision of Light and Void - creative energy with potentiallity - that the universe came into existence. In a sense, the raw creative force of the Light needed exposure to the infinite dreams and possibilities of the Void in order to bring something besides raw existence into being. The Void contained the possibilities, while the Light brought them into being and solidified them as real - no longer in potential, but in actual existence.

The desire to truly exist may be the source of Void entities great hunger - they exist as potential beings, outside reality. They desire to become 'complete', to exist in the realm of reality. The Void Lords cannot manifest long outside their realm and must consume huge swathes of reality to maintain themselves - perhaps they are draining the creative 'Light' from what exists to try and maintain an existence of their own. The Final Titan would be a means for them to finally exist permanently in the realms of order, allowing them to experience the universe forever - as forces of the Void, the fact that this would spread havoc and insanity throughout the cosmos is not something they see as bad. With infinite possibility there are infinite ways to suffer. As long as there's infinite ways to do infinite things, that's ultimate freedom as far as the Void is concerned.


edit - further comment

The notion of Void as infinite potential, is one I'm super happy to see taking shape, because I actually saw this concept used earlier in another awesome game that came out this year called Hollow Knight. It's super awesome and if anyone likes side-scrollers of the Castlevania/Metroid mold, Hollow Knight is the best one of those I've ever played.

Within Hollow Knight there is also a power called Void (or sometimes VOID) portrayed as a chaotic, living darkness that wells up from deep beneath the earth. Very little is revealed about it, but it is described in a couple of interesting ways in various places:




Upon playing through Hollow Knight and seeing its descriptions of a dark power called Void as a source of chaotic, infinite potential, it made me want to see the Void in Warcraft presented that way, and it seems like Blizz is taking steps to shape its concept of Void towards that form. Very glad!

I actually logged on via my phone to tell you I thought this was a very well thought out and intriguing post. Keep it up.

As for me, I hope we see nzoth go off script and start using the light and void to fulfill his new agenda. And then we see the void lords try to destroy him somehow, maybe using the other old gods. Thought I hope Alleria does not try taking his place or become corrupted. I enjoy her character.

[yuca247]

So i read through most of this thread and I see a lot of people either just remembering what they want to remember or just quoting what they want to believe and leaving out a lot of important context.

"The light is evil hur dur knew it all along" is a massive oversimplication if you've come to that conclusion you should be ashamed of yourself that you have the reading comprehension of a 6 year old.

So here we go with context:

She saw the Light moving through the cosmos like a ravenous predator. She saw it touch the minds of
Azeroth's mortals—a touch that corrupted them forever. She saw generations live and die in invisible
chains, bound to a force that granted them fleeting moments of peace in exchange for absolute
obedience.
She saw war. She saw the forces of the Light striking back against the Void. She saw darkened worlds
burning in holy fire. She saw millions of creatures encased in luminous crystals the size of mountains,
sustained by the Light and unable to die. Warriors of the Light were monsters, corrupting and
consuming everything they touched.
On and on and on it went, until she could not even comprehend it all.
"Lies," she whispered. "These are all lies."
"Sear that into your heart," the Locus-Walker said. "Know that, and never forget it."
"I do not... What…?"
The Locus-Walker kept her firmly afloat. "You have known the Shadow as nothing but horrors. The
Shadow sees the Light in the same way. Neither viewpoint is true. Neither is wrong." The roar of the
Void nearly drowned him out. The masters of the Void were clawing at her mind. She barely fought
them off. "The Light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies. The Shadow seeks every possible path
and sees them all as truth."

So perspective is very important (btw this dealing with perspective reminded me of the stormlight archive if you have not read it and you like fantasy i highly recommend it)

Another very important part:

"Destiny. She saw what the Light could not. She saw what even the Shadow could not, because, yes, it
was just as blind."

So both the Light and the Shadow can only see a part of a whole. They explain it very clearly throughout the story.

Lastly,it is also very important to note right after one of the many possible futures the void shows Alleria is that of her killing Arator. Here's another important part:

Perhaps one day she would fall to madness. Perhaps one day she would betray her allies. She was
capable of it. But she would never, not in any possibility, not in any circumstance, harm her son. She
would never lift a finger against Arator. Even if he killed her for what she had become, she would accept
it gladly. The weight of that truth kept her afloat. And she could feel the Shadow's confusion. It did not
understand the bonds between mortals. It did not understand that there were some things that could
not be corrupted.

So again like I said if the whole story since Illidan destroyed Xe'ra and now with this audio drama the only thing you get out of it is that the light is or has been evil all along you are seriously missing the point.

[tristannarutofan]

snip.

Completely rude an unnecessary intro aside, you bring up a good point. Maybe its inaccurate but according to the priest in shattrath love is an aspect of llthe light.

Basically it seems if that fact is true, that the light can see everything in its real and the void everything outside it. Xera couldnt see alleria using the void, and the void couldnt see the bond that is light aligned