Druid Class Hall Followers Optimization

[Chison]

Since the first post hasn't been updated, can someone give me a summary of the current state of Druid Order Hall Champions ?

By the looks of it you are required to use AoW and DGW for optimal counters, and either keep them alive with Shrooms or keep making new ones. Is this actually required? Is there no valid build that doesn't require Sylendra and AoW/DGW to work ?

I want to use a Combat Ally, at the start of Legion I used Mylune because I didn't find her to get in the way and I liked running around with my Army of Critters. I used her more for her Equipment than the actual effect. As I understand it Thisalee is a stronger CA effect-wise, providing a unique buff for each form. The last option would obviously be Meatball who can just "execute" rare mobs and provides a pretty noticeable damage boost. Which CA would you recommend and why ?

From the looks of it the basic roster consists of Remulos, Hamuul, and Sylendra, and currently Brightwing and Thisalee seems to take the spotlight. Leaving the last slot to either Meatball or Mylune depending on what Combat Ally you prefer. What would a roster look like with Thisalee as CA if it is still worth it ?

[Kluian05]

Since the first post hasn't been updated, can someone give me a summary of the current state of Druid Order Hall Champions ?

By the looks of it you are required to use AoW and DGW for optimal counters, and either keep them alive with Shrooms or keep making new ones. Is this actually required? Is there no valid build that doesn't require Sylendra and AoW/DGW to work ?

I want to use a Combat Ally, at the start of Legion I used Mylune because I didn't find her to get in the way and I liked running around with my Army of Critters. I used her more for her Equipment than the actual effect. As I understand it Thisalee is a stronger CA effect-wise, providing a unique buff for each form. The last option would obviously be Meatball who can just "execute" rare mobs and provides a pretty noticeable damage boost. Which CA would you recommend and why ?

From the looks of it the basic roster consists of Remulos, Hamuul, and Sylendra, and currently Brightwing and Thisalee seems to take the spotlight. Leaving the last slot to either Meatball or Mylune depending on what Combat Ally you prefer. What would a roster look like with Thisalee as CA if it is still worth it ?

It truly doesn't matter anymore with how the 7.3 mission table is coming out. Troops are used far less. Just select a balance of 2 of each spec with 2 of each counter, and use meatball as 7th. Is AoW required? No, but if you already have one then its worth keeping around. Yes you want Sylendra because the shrooms are useful for AoW which you won't be speced into to keep alive, and also the new expensive elite troops that are sometimes needed for missions.

[Polarthief]

Since the first post hasn't been updated, can someone give me a summary of the current state of Druid Order Hall Champions ?

Druid is fine. We're the only class with 2 really shitty champions pre-7.3 but that doesn't matter as much now.

By the looks of it you are required to use AoW and DGW for optimal counters, and either keep them alive with Shrooms or keep making new ones. Is this actually required? Is there no valid build that doesn't require Sylendra and AoW/DGW to work ?

I mean, using AoW/DGW w/ Shrooms has always been optimal but by no means mandatory.

I want to use a Combat Ally, at the start of Legion I used Mylune because I didn't find her to get in the way and I liked running around with my Army of Critters. I used her more for her Equipment than the actual effect. As I understand it Thisalee is a stronger CA effect-wise, providing a unique buff for each form. The last option would obviously be Meatball who can just "execute" rare mobs and provides a pretty noticeable damage boost. Which CA would you recommend and why ?

CAs for actual combat prowess/help in order of usefulness (best to worst):
- Meatball
- Naralex (when he actually works)
- Thisalee (active)
- Broll
- Remulos
- Mylune
- Naralex (when he doesn't work)

I don't know where Remulos or passive Thisalee goes because I never used them.

CAs that aren't annoying (best to worst)
- Naralex
- Remulos/Thisalee (passive)
- Mylune
- Thisalee (active)/Broll/Meatball/Moroes

CAs I recommend to not screw over your roster and are not intrusive in the field (NOT necessarily helpful in combat though) (best to worst)
- Naralex (active ability so 0 intrusions. When he works, he's amazing)
- Mylune (lightly intrusive, but rosters don't have to have her)
- Remulos (no intrusion assuming he doesn't pull stuff [never used him] and you can get by without him with a few swaps)
- Thisalee (as passive, she's fine to pick, but you'll have to use Broll or Mylune for missions)
- Moroes (BGs are annoying, but he's not as good as Meatball and will be useless for missions post-7.3)
- Broll (annoying, but you won't use him for missions)
- Thisalee (as active, she's not as good of a pick. She's intrusive as a BG and you'll have to use Broll or Mylune for missions)
- Meatball (why do people use him as a CA? Stop doing this)

TL;DR
- Least intrusive (to both missions and you on the field): Naralex
- Most helpful in combat: Meatball (Naralex is amazing when the enemy isn't immune though)

From the looks of it the basic roster consists of Remulos, Hamuul, and Sylendra, and currently Brightwing and Thisalee seems to take the spotlight. Leaving the last slot to either Meatball or Mylune depending on what Combat Ally you prefer. What would a roster look like with Thisalee as CA if it is still worth it ?

You'd basically swap Thisalee for Broll Shitmantle, or use Mylune instead of Broll and use a Feral CA instead of a Balance one.

You can do pretty much any roster, I just highly, HIGHLY recommend not using Meatball as a CA.

[Etamalgren]

I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I'll say it again:

Meatball's quite useful in the open world, since he occasionally drops balls for you to pick up while in combat -- They give +10% damage per stack for about 12-15 seconds, and they can stack up to... 10 times? I'm not actually sure since I've never run him myself -- just taking advantage of other people's Meatballs if they happen to be in the area. Oh, speaking of which, the caveat: Anyone can pick up Meatball's balls, even a flagged, hostile player.

He also has a chance to instant kill anything that's at ~15% or less health, including world bosses. Bear in mind that bodyguards don't follow you through the invasion points, so you can't use Meatball to instakill that seducing succubus bitch, but it was pretty funny to see him eat Brutallus in one bite on the Broken Shores.

Personally, I'm still keeping him as one of my mission runners -- that 75% success chance bonus, while it no longer works on every mission, is still extremely good.

P.S.: I die a little inside every time I see someone with Meatball at their side.

[Polarthief]

I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I'll say it again:

Meatball's quite useful in the open world, since he occasionally drops balls for you to pick up while in combat -- They give +10% damage per stack for about 12-15 seconds, and they can stack up to... 10 times? I'm not actually sure since I've never run him myself -- just taking advantage of other people's Meatballs if they happen to be in the area. Oh, speaking of which, the caveat: Anyone can pick up Meatball's balls, even a flagged, hostile player.

He also has a chance to instant kill anything that's at ~15% or less health, including world bosses. Bear in mind that bodyguards don't follow you through the invasion points, so you can't use Meatball to instakill that seducing succubus bitch, but it was pretty funny to see him eat Brutallus in one bite on the Broken Shores.

Personally, I'm still keeping him as one of my mission runners -- that 75% success chance bonus, while it no longer works on every mission, is still extremely good.

P.S.: I die a little inside every time I see someone with Meatball at their side.

This is all assuming you NEED the help to kill things in the world. Rares are the only thing that are annoying to solo, but there's almost always at least 1 other person to help you out. If not, there's a reason we have an overpowered as hell 10m cooldown with the Warframe.

This is why I use Naralex. He will never keep me in combat and he's not vital to a missions-based roster.

[Etamalgren]

I think there could be a use for Meatball in a hardcore aoe grind -- assuming you're alone or with other people that also have meatball. The balls proc often enough that you could keep the stacks up indefinitely.

There's only two areas on Argus that I can think of that have the mob density and respawn speed required to support it, though, and one of them is populated with elites that will wreck your face half the time.

[Polarthief]

I think there could be a use for Meatball in a hardcore aoe grind -- assuming you're alone or with other people that also have meatball. The balls proc often enough that you could keep the stacks up indefinitely.

There's only two areas on Argus that I can think of that have the mob density and respawn speed required to support it, though, and one of them is populated with elites that will wreck your face half the time.

But what's even the point? It's not like non-rares drop anything of real value.

[Etamalgren]

True. It would've been more relevant on day one, when Lightweave cloth was going for 150-200g per on most servers. There's still the demon eyeball grind for some people, at least.

[Polarthief]

True. It would've been more relevant on day one, when Lightweave cloth was going for 150-200g per on most servers. There's still the demon eyeball grind for some people, at least.

I guess but even both of these can be fixed with grouping.

[Tiberria]

Has anyone fully confirmed that we can get new follower items from Reclamation now? I am going to switch to it regardless, because having the extra Keeper of the Grove/Treant available seems almost useless now that we have 2 Wardens, an Ancient of War, and 3x2 of the new troop types. There's just no real demand for more than 2 Keeprs or 3 Treants, especially since they are the weakest of the troop types now that we are getting rid of T2 troop gear (and there is no new T2 troop gear in 7.3).

With the new blue items, I think your best setup for followers is one of the 3 following setups.

Option 1:
Slot 1 - +25% mission success
Slot 2 - +40% to whatever the follower counters
Slot 3 - -25% mission duration

Option 2:
Slot 1 - +25% mission success
Slot 2 - +40% to whatever the follower counters
Slot 3 - -+20% mission success (green)

Option 3: (For Meatball, Moroes, etc that don't have actual counters)
Slot 1 - +25% mission success
Slot 2 - -25% mission duration
Slot 3 - Either +20% success green of -20% mission duration green

I think that going with the 25% mission reduction on every follower will be the way to go, because assuming you're using followers as counters all of the time, you passively get +65% success rate per slot, and should easily have full 200% coverage with 3 followers almost all of the time. May as well get more missions done faster. The amount of mission duration reduction that is available now - you can easily have -50% on most missions also makes the +8 hour gear all but useless IMO.

[Polarthief]

Has anyone fully confirmed that we can get new follower items from Reclamation now?

Yes. Also, here's some more information on it (and Work Orders):
- You will not get +iLvl items if all active/inactive followers are 900+
- You will still get all old items, not just CA items like the Argus boxes.
- AFAIK, literally nothing has changed with Reclamation (and Work Orders for other classes) outside of them adding any new Argus gear you unlock to the potential loot list.

I am going to switch to it regardless, because having the extra Keeper of the Grove/Treant available seems almost useless now that we have 2 Wardens, an Ancient of War, and 3x2 of the new troop types. There's just no real demand for more than 2 Keeprs or 3 Treants, especially since they are the weakest of the troop types now that we are getting rid of T2 troop gear (and there is no new T2 troop gear in 7.3).

Smart move. You really don't need the extra troops.

With the new blue items, I think your best setup for followers is one of the 3 following setups.

Option 1:
Slot 1 - +25% mission success
Slot 2 - +40% to whatever the follower counters
Slot 3 - -25% mission duration

Option 2:
Slot 1 - +25% mission success
Slot 2 - +40% to whatever the follower counters
Slot 3 - -+20% mission success (green)

Option 3: (For Meatball, Moroes, etc that don't have actual counters)
Slot 1 - +25% mission success
Slot 2 - -25% mission duration
Slot 3 - Either +20% success green of -20% mission duration green

I think that going with the 25% mission reduction on every follower will be the way to go, because assuming you're using followers as counters all of the time, you passively get +65% success rate per slot, and should easily have full 200% coverage with 3 followers almost all of the time. May as well get more missions done faster. The amount of mission duration reduction that is available now - you can easily have -50% on most missions also makes the +8 hour gear all but useless IMO.

It kinda depends. Right now, it's important to make sure you can 200% every mission you can til blues start to become obsolete. That said, the 925 and 950 missions might change our perspective.

You can also go with a super counter-heavy combo of 40%+30% for Counters and 25% Bauble. There's also full on Reduction which I'm doing for Meatball atm (60% pre-multiplication).

Once we have access to epics and 950 missions, I'm sure things will change quite a bit again. I do recommend Bauble+40% Counter on pretty much every non-CA/MB/Moroes follower though, the last one being Sledgehammer, 30% Counter, or Satchel

[Lunnar]

I just had a new Legendary proc from completing a Mission on my Druid. It's the Pulsing Wrathguard Skull (40% Hazard Success + 40% Success if Mission is longer than 8 hours). Now if I put it on Thisalee it's a 10% Hazard downgrade from her Epic Hazard Item but it gives an extra 40% if she does happen to do an 8+ hour Mission. Kind of torn on this Legendary though.

[Polarthief]

I just had a new Legendary proc from completing a Mission on my Druid. It's the Pulsing Wrathguard Skull (40% Hazard Success + 40% Success if Mission is longer than 8 hours). Now if I put it on Thisalee it's a 10% Hazard downgrade from her Epic Hazard Item but it gives an extra 40% if she does happen to do an 8+ hour Mission. Kind of torn on this Legendary though.

If it was a <8h item, I'd auto-put that on for sure. Because it's a >8h, idk. It'll definitely be awesome for future 7.3.2/5 raid missions or any other big ones that get put in.

Not a bad item by any means and a 10% hit to the counter for a +40% for long missions seems pretty worth it to me but YMMV.

Keep in mind that you don't ALWAYS get the counter bonus. There are times where I'm sure you stick Thisalee on a Feral mission that has Minions and/or Spells but no Hazards.

Maybe consider building her specifically with Memento+Skull+Tincture (50% Hazards)? 30% base + 90% Hazards + 40% > 8h is pretty nice. Her alone on a Hazard >8h missions would be 160% and that doesn't include Powerful counters, troops, or anything. If Hazard is Powerful, she pretty much 200%s it alone if there's no Cursed!

[axxey]

Kind of stupid the information isn't obvious and there's no information leading you there.

After you upgrade your 6 followers to 925 you need to go to your ship above antoran wastes to pick up the next follow up. I've been sitting here a few days thinking it must be gated to next week and just never been to the ship in the right zone.

[Lyvar]

Cheers Polarthief, I had a look at the updated version of your spreadsheet and I have some questions about your champion grading system.

Lonewolf: Why do you see it that strong? You are dependant on hitting a mission with Argus Elite (or a mission the specific champion fully covers).
T2 vs non-countered-threat: Comparing Hamuul and Remulos, what makes Remuloslike champions better? I see the nerf for Hamuuls on 2-slot-missions but I think the hit for T2-champions is harder (by far).
Moroes: Why is he still yellow?
>8h: Shinfel (WL) is blue, Hymdall (warrior) green. Mistake? If you go with blue, I would probably agree on the downgrade due to the Elite Strike nerf.

If it helps you I have made a rooster for my WL I am quite happy with: Lulubelle, Ritssyn and Karenthad stay at home, Meatball is used, Moroes is not.

[Polarthief]

Kind of stupid the information isn't obvious and there's no information leading you there.

After you upgrade your 6 followers to 925 you need to go to your ship above antoran wastes to pick up the next follow up. I've been sitting here a few days thinking it must be gated to next week and just never been to the ship in the right zone.

IIRC a handful of quests from the Argus questline was like this; that was sorta your information that it'll happen, but yes, it's really, really, stupid. Getting the Minion-bonus (3rd) troop is also like this, as I believe you can only get them on the Vindicaar at Antoran Wastes. It shows how spaghetti-coded WoW really is.

Cheers Polarthief, I had a look at the updated version of your spreadsheet and I have some questions about your champion grading system.

*thumbs up*

Lonewolf: Why do you see it that strong? You are dependant on hitting a mission with Argus Elite (or a mission the specific champion fully covers).

Simply because of the amount of 2-slotter missions. Lone Wolf might be Blue instead though, idk. I still think it's really good considering many missions (especially 2-slotters) can be 200%'d with 1 champion and 1-2 troops (especially Argus troops; that 75% bonus is stupidly powerful).

T2 vs non-countered-threat: Comparing Hamuul and Remulos, what makes Remuloslike champions better? I see the nerf for Hamuuls on 2-slot-missions but I think the hit for T2-champions is harder (by far).

I rated both Purple because they're both mediocre. T2 obviously got hit really hard (but not hard enough to be red; I've actually found myself using T2s a handful of times recently), but I feel like the 2-slotters nerfed the non-counter bonus just as hard if not harder. On non-AE missions, you can almost reasonably 200% any 3-slotter mission with 2 champions and a T2. For a 15% non-counter bonus to be useful, they have to be on the mission on top of either the spec or ability of the champion also being on the mission, which isn't as reliable IMO.

Also other classes are different but Druid gets a perfect "no spec gets the same two counters" balance (assuming you use a good roster) to where you can pretty much always get the spec and minor threat countered by one champion. Every so often though, you'll get a Balance+Minion, Feral+Spell, or Resto+Hazard mission, but that's way less common than getting any of the other 6 combinations or getting an Argus Elite mission where you only worry about the threat and throw the matching Argus troop on it.

TL;DR: 15% bonus is rarely gotten. T2 bonus can be gotten way more. T2 is a top-tier Purple, non-counter bonus is a mid-to-low-tier Purple due to 2-slotters and Argus troops, possibly tipping into Red status even. T2 might turn into a Blue bonus someday but it'll probably take seeing what happens in 7.3.2/5 and how difficult the raid missions (and any other high-reward missions) will be.

Moroes: Why is he still yellow?

Because he's still good. I just don't recommend using him alongside Meatball. If you really like him, you could feasibly use him instead of Meatball, just Meatball is better.

I might make him Green someday though. Actually, should he be Green or Blue? Hmmmm. I'll change him to Blue for now just so people don't mistakingly use him alongside Meatball but yeah, he's still good, just not as good and Meatball overshadows him.

>8h: Shinfel (WL) is blue, Hymdall (warrior) green. Mistake? If you go with blue, I would probably agree on the downgrade due to the Elite Strike nerf.

I'm only human! Hymdall just missed the nerf bat and has just been corrected to Blue.

If it helps you I have made a rooster for my WL I am quite happy with: Lulubelle, Ritssyn and Karenthad stay at home, Meatball is used, Moroes is not.

Haven't been ready for rosters yet, and it's 3AM and I'm half asleep, but this is near guaranteed to be the one I'd make for Warlocks, exactly as is, using Shinfel or Ritssyn for a No Meatball roster.

[Lyvar]

I guess you are right about the Lonewolfs. A Marksman/Minion mission will probably be feasible for Rexxar + Lightforged Bulwark. In that case, agreed on green.

T2-champions are blue in the spreadsheet, not purple. I guess it's no big deal though as they fall into the "not crap but no worries if you don't fit them into your rooster" category either way.

Of course you are human an that's why you helping you means helping everyone I guess with Shinfel you mean Karenthad btw as Shinfel usually is active (second Minions counter).

[Polarthief]

T2-champions are blue in the spreadsheet, not purple. I guess it's no big deal though as they fall into the "not crap but no worries if you don't fit them into your rooster" category either way.

Of course you are human an that's why you helping you means helping everyone I guess with Shinfel you mean Karenthad btw as Shinfel usually is active (second Minions counter).

Good example of me being human at 4AM and forgetting that I DID make T2 champs blue and not purple, derp.

Also yes, Karenthad, not Shinfel. Another perfect example.

[Deleted]

First of all, thank you! You've helped me tremendously with your guide .

I've seen your newest update regarding 950 missions starting with negative percentages.
Would you recommend to refrain from completing the 950 quest at least until the new missions arrive?
Since I don't see any reason to do that at the moment.

[Polarthief]

First of all, thank you! You've helped me tremendously with your guide .

*thumbs up* Glad you read/enjoy it!

I've seen your newest update regarding 950 missions starting with negative percentages.
Would you recommend to refrain from completing the 950 quest at least until the new missions arrive?
Since I don't see any reason to do that at the moment.

Unless you have very few epics (which would mean you're avoiding gear missions entirely), I'd say no, still do the 950 quest. Meatball fills in the gaps on any non-AE mission (especially 3-slotters), as do his strange-and-magical Balls.

After Meatball, you also have the Argus troops which are literally always useful. +75% Success to any 2-slotter or +150% to any 3-slotter (if you use 2) when some threats can stay uncountered. Right now the only mandatory threat to counter is Cursed (assuming the mission has a bonus and you care about it). Slowing is also pretty shitty, but enough Reduction can arguably counter it too. Disorienting might be bad if it's a high resource mission (3600 res for 12 bloods isn't a good trade for example; I had to use a T7 to drop it to 1800). Lethal doesn't matter unless you have to use a T7 or AoW. Powerful is arguably the best thing to get atm since Meatball and Argus troops aren't affected by it.