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  1. #241
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    Why does health insurance work differently than most (every?) other kind(s) of insurance? If you get car insurance, the insurance plan pays out to you for the repairs. Same thing for home and fire insurances. What gives?
    It's the same as any others. The reason you have to pay through your teeth for flood insurance in many areas, is the same reason you pay through your teeth if you fall in the high risk bracket. It's the same reason full collision costs extra...

    The problem is that healthcare is not driving. The preventative care of accidents is done by traffic laws. If the same applied to healthcare, McDonald's would be illegal and ice scream would be made in bathtubs. Someone gifting you a box of chocolates would be persecuted for contraband.
    Last edited by Felya; 2017-09-25 at 03:47 AM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  2. #242
    New version of Cassidy-Graham is out.
    Sens. Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy have revised their health-care bill, allowing states to loosen more of the Affordable Care Act's regulations while diverting more money to the states whose senators hold the deciding votes on the legislation. They will formally release the revised measure tomorrow.

    The bill
    State-by-state effects

    Why it matters: The deadline to pass a bill with just 50 votes is Saturday. The Congressional Budget Office is expected to release preliminary estimates this week of the initial — and now outdated — version of the bill. With the clock ticking and little time for independent economic analyses, Graham and Cassidy are making a last-minute play for senators who have been critical not only of the bill's contents, but of the rushed process, too.

    What's different: According to Graham and Cassidy's analysis, the revised bill would direct more money to Alaska, Arizona, Kentucky and Maine, compared with earlier versions. But it would still reduce overall federal funding to those states — whose Republican senators are, for now, opposed to the bill or undecided.

    Although the state-by-state numbers being circulated show these states faring well, the Kaiser Family Foundation's Larry Levitt called them "pretty misleading," as they don't take into account the per-person cap on federal Medicaid funding. They also add state savings to the block grants under the bill, but don't include them in the current law baseline, meaning the comparison isn't apples to apples. [They're bribing Murkowski, McCain, Paul, Collins with bogus numbers!]

    The revisions also ramped up some of the regulatory rollbacks needed to help win conservative votes. Sen. Ted Cruz said earlier today that he's not yet on board with the legislation.

    For Alaska:

    Funding carve outs for low-density states
    Increased Medicaid federal match rate for high-poverty states, aka Alaska and Hawaii

    Regulatory changes:

    Allows "multiple risk pools," which could separate sick and healthy people and thus drive up premiums for people with pre-existing conditions.
    Allows states to change the federal cap on out-of-pocket costs for enrollees.
    Allows states to decide how much insurers can charge people with pre-existing conditions, the benefits plans must offer and how cost-sharing is structured.
    States only have to describe their plans; they don't have to submit waivers of insurance rules.
    "If there was any question about Graham-Cassidy's removal of federal protections for pre-existing conditions, this new draft is quite clear," Levitt tweeted.


    Source: https://www.axios.com/heres-the-new-...489238510.html

  3. #243
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    New version of Cassidy-Graham is out.
    Why don't other senators care this much about their constituents? If they all did this, 51% of the country would have received expanded Medicare.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  4. #244
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    New version of Cassidy-Graham is out.
    It will be interesting to see the response. Frankly, if I was one of the "yes" votes and saw "no" votes getting extra funds, I'd be kind of upset. But McCain was very clear: this bill is not bipartisan. Adding money to Arizona, with or without real numbers, is still not bipartisan. It's partisan with a bribe. I don't know what the price tag on McCain's dignity is, but I'm guessing this bill doesn't cover it.

    Could any resident members of Twitler's rabid fanbase explain how this is anything other than a blatant bribe?

  5. #245
    Epic! Pejo's Avatar
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    Question: Why aren't blatant bribes illegal in this kind of thing? I have always wondered this

  6. #246
    I got a sad feeling they are gonna try again when John McCain dies and he gets replaced by a pro trumpette!!

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...tes/698677001/

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    So this was brought up earlier in this thread but without the heat map...



    So is anyone else noticing a pattern? That the people who most want to get rid of Obamacare, and who never want single payer, are probably the people most likely to need health care in the next 5 years?

    And while I wish no harm on anyone, especially not political opponents, I wouldn't lose sleep if some Trump voters were recipients of some Darwin Awards.

    Just let the Deplorables have the no-healthcare they always wanted - but make sure they sign a waiver or something so they can't just move to a blue state after realizing being Deplorable is killing them.

    Nature can then weed out the wicked.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    So this was brought up earlier in this thread but without the heat map...



    So is anyone else noticing a pattern? That the people who most want to get rid of Obamacare, and who never want single payer, are probably the people most likely to need health care in the next 5 years?

    And while I wish no harm on anyone, especially not political opponents, I wouldn't lose sleep if some Trump voters were recipients of some Darwin Awards.
    Shouldn't the red areas pay more for health insurance since they have higher risk?

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It's the same as any others. The reason you have to pay through your teeth for flood insurance in many areas, is the same reason you pay through your teeth if you fall in the high risk bracket. It's the same reason full collision costs extra...

    The problem is that healthcare is not driving. The preventative care of accidents is done by traffic laws. If the same applied to healthcare, McDonald's would be illegal and ice scream would be made in bathtubs. Someone gifting you a box of chocolates would be persecuted for contraband.
    Flood insurance pays to you. Health insurance doesn't, it pays to the hospital. Why is that?

  10. #250
    Got Sanders trying to push for a functional Healthcare system that actually works and saves us money as a nation.

    Got the republicans trying to fist fuck this nation with a wealthcare program that snatches healthcare from the people and drives up our overall costs with more people resorting to the ER for their problems after waiting for them to get that bad because they can't afford healthcare and both repealing the semi-functional healthcare we have and blocking states from implementing a functional program themselves because "Fuck states rights if they don't agree with us".


    On the bright side, if this passes, within the next few years, unless the Republicans can gerrymander their way to fucking the will of the people harder than has already been done, this train wreck combined with what the public actually wants will create a huge push for Single Payer or similar that could get it passed even sooner than it already would be.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  11. #251
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    Can't we all just agree on the fact that if the trump government wants to push a new version of ACA, they need to get their shit together and stop pushing ridiculous things like this?

    Trump claims he's a businessman. A businessman does good deals for his clients - in this case, the American people. Right now, it seems like his clients are on the losing end. Not much of a good deal.
    Google Diversity Memo
    Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA

    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    Can't we all just agree on the fact that if the trump government wants to push a new version of ACA, they need to get their shit together and stop pushing ridiculous things like this?

    Trump claims he's a businessman. A businessman does good deals for his clients - in this case, the American people. Right now, it seems like his clients are on the losing end. Not much of a good deal.
    You forget, he is a corrupt businessman and a con man. He doesn't care about doing what is best for the people, he is caring about what is more profitable to him and helps his image.

    On that note. AFK.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  13. #253
    Stood in the Fire Arvei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserSharkDFB View Post
    Their spite will sustain them.
    As their anti-Trump son/daughter weeps in tears from watching as their deplorable parent lays in their death bed from the lack of Obamacare, the parent pulls their child near them. And with one final gasp of air whispers in their ear, "take that, librul scum".

  14. #254
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arvei View Post
    As their anti-Trump son/daughter weeps in tears from watching as their deplorable parent lays in their death bed from the lack of Obamacare, the parent pulls their child near them. And with one final gasp of air whispers in their ear, "take that, librul scum".
    "But..." *beep beep* "...her..." *beep beep* ".emaaaaaaaaaaails..." *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Trump jumps the gun, giving up on TrumpCare 4.0 and trying to pretend he's blameless.

    Trump pessimistic on ObamaCare repeal: ‘That’s the end of that’

    President Trump sounded a pessimistic note Monday on the latest GOP effort to repeal ObamaCare, and blamed Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) for costing his party a victory.

    Trump did not give up all hope on the bill, but suggested it would not get the 50 votes — assuming a tie-breaking vote from Vice President Pence — it needed to clear the Senate because of opposition from McCain, Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and other Republicans.

    “Looks like Susan Collins and some others who will vote against,” Trump said during an interview on the “Rick & Bubba” radio show. “We’re going to lose two or three votes and that’s the end of that.”

    Trump also criticized McCain, whose thumbs down killed a slimmed-down ObamaCare repeal bill in July, and who announced his opposition to the latest measure on Friday.

    Trump said that “the only reason we don’t have” repeal is “because of John McCain.”

    “What McCain has done is a tremendous slap in the face of the Republican party,” Trump said. “Without John McCain, we already have the health care.”
    The vote hasn't happened yet, and may not happen -- TrumpCare 1.0 was yanked at the literal last minute, after all. But Trump appears to be passively walking away form yet another campaign promise. Assuming he's right, which is the conventional wisdom for now, expect another Twitter attack on his own party and how they could not deliver his unkeepable promises, which he made nearly zero effort on and outsourced to Congress.

  15. #255
    I love how quickly he gives up on things that he claims are super important. The true master dealmaker in action.

  16. #256
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I love how quickly he gives up on things that he claims are super important. The true master dealmaker in action.
    Yeah, he didn't shut down the government over Wall funding like he said he would. Oh wait, wrong thread.

    He didn't fight Russian sanctions like...god dammit. It's in here somewhere, I'm sure.

    He didn't ban Muslims...no....

    He didn't pull troops out of...no...

    He didn't cut FEMA...ok hurricanes, I'll give him that one...

    Sorry I give up, which promise are you talking about, again?

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yeah, he didn't shut down the government over Wall funding like he said he would. Oh wait, wrong thread.

    He didn't fight Russian sanctions like...god dammit. It's in here somewhere, I'm sure.

    He didn't ban Muslims...no....

    He didn't pull troops out of...no...

    He didn't cut FEMA...ok hurricanes, I'll give him that one...

    Sorry I give up, which promise are you talking about, again?
    Show me where the person you quoted said the word promise. You can't, they said " super important". Just like reading comprehension is super important.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    We only burn oil in this house! Oil that comes from decent, god-fearing sources like dinosaurs! Which didn't exist!

  18. #258
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stop Pretending View Post
    Show me where the person you quoted said the word promise.
    Well someone doesn't have a sense of humor. But since you asked:

    “If we have to close down our government, we’re building that wall,” Trump told thousands of supporters gathered in Phoenix for a campaign-style rally. “One way or the other, we’re going to get that wall.” Didn't happen. Sided with Democrats out of the blue (har har)

    “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.” Did not happen. Banned some countries, claimed it was a coincidence they were all Muslim, and that it wasn't a Muslim Ban. In other words, to get what he asked for through SCOTUS, he had to say he wasn't asking for a Muslim Ban, despite asking for a Muslim Ban while running.

    The Muslim Ban promise remained until removed from his campaign website May 8th,. Would you like to see more?

    The FEMA cuts are still on this official whitehouse.gov file. Page 56.

    The troops thing, at least in terms of Afghanistan, was not a campaign promise but a reversal from years of tweeting opposition while Obama was in charge. Less "promise broken" more "blatant fucking hypocrite".

    And as for relations with Russia, well, hear it from the man himself. Maybe you will say "I think we will have a good relationship" is not a campaign promise, but then, "only stupid people don't want better relations with Russia" doubles down on that statement, and his tear-stained statement after signing the sanctions triples down on that. So you won't be able to make any progress there.

    So in conclusion, either these are promises, or Trump is blowing hot air over his supporters by telling them all these reasons to vote for him -- yes, even the Wall shutdown, that was at a 2020 campaign rally -- which mean nothing to him. Pick one. Neither trait is endearing.
    Last edited by Breccia; 2017-09-25 at 05:39 PM.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Well someone doesn't have a sense of humor. But since you asked:

    “If we have to close down our government, we’re building that wall,” Trump told thousands of supporters gathered in Phoenix for a campaign-style rally. “One way or the other, we’re going to get that wall.” Didn't happen. Sided with Democrats out of the blue (har har)

    “Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.” Did not happen. Banned some countries, claimed it was a coincidence they were all Muslim, and that it wasn't a Muslim Ban. In other words, to get what he asked for through SCOTUS, he had to say he wasn't asking for a Muslim Ban, despite asking for a Muslim Ban while running.

    The Muslim Ban promise remained until removed from his campaign website May 8th,. Would you like to see more?

    The FEMA cuts are still on this official whitehouse.gov file. Page 56.

    The troops thing, at least in terms of Afghanistan, was not a campaign promise but a reversal from years of tweeting opposition while Obama was in charge. Less "promise broken" more "blatant fucking hypocrite".

    And as for relations with Russia, well, hear it from the man himself. Maybe you will say "I think we will have a good relationship" is not a campaign promise, but then, "only stupid people don't want better relations with Russia" doubles down on that statement, and his tear-stained statement after signing the sanctions triples down on that. So you won't be able to make any progress there.

    So in conclusion, either these are promises, or Trump is blowing hot air over his supporters by telling them all these reasons to vote for him -- yes, even the Wall shutdown, that was at a 2020 campaign rally -- which mean nothing to him. Pick one. Neither trait is endearing.
    Im not talking about Trump, I'm talking about the poster you quoted. Trump is a POS full of broken promises.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    We only burn oil in this house! Oil that comes from decent, god-fearing sources like dinosaurs! Which didn't exist!

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Stop Pretending View Post
    Show me where the person you quoted said the word promise. You can't, they said " super important". Just like reading comprehension is super important.
    Your name is what you should be doing, stop pretending Trump is a decent person.

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