Turalyon vs. Tirion vs. Uther.

[Theoris]

First off, immortality does not mean jack in terms of power. He can't die from age, big whoop. He is not invincible, just immortal. Huge freaking difference.

It means he has been alive for a long time, thus he's more experienced than he was, and more than his fellow humans will ever be. It's hardly irrelevant.

I am not deifying him at all, I am stating factually what was laid down in Warcrafts past.

You're getting an awful lot from Turalyon simply knocking out an already exhausted and mortally wounded Orgrim Doomhammer after blinding him with the Light, in that case. (Sure, Turalyon is a seasoned soldier and an accomplished commander, but in a fair fight the outcome would probably be in Orgrim's favor -at leadt pre-Legion)

Just because he is "Lightforged" and the lore dictates that he is "Stronger" does not mean shit when he has literally shown himself thus far in legion to be so weak that, again, ILLIDAN FUCKING STORMRAGE CAN CATCH HIS BLADE BARE HANDED, WHILE WINDED, AFTER ALMOST BEING RAPED BY THE LIGHT, AS IF IT WERE NOTHING!

Considering that ten lightforged are like a hundred ordinary soldiers, I beg to differ.

Also, it's Illidan. Not exactly a pushover.

Explain how that is "stronger" than ever compared to his feats in the second war.

To recap:

- He's been alive for over a thousand years, and has spent that time endlessly fighting the Legion

- He was made Lightforged (again, a big boost)

Stop believing everything Blizzard says without question.

Observation of the lore is enough. Turalyon has never been depicted as the grandiose character you describe. If anything he has always been pretty generic.

Just because they say he is stronger does not mean shit when the game, so far, has literally proven just how much weaker he is than what was depicted in Warcrafts past.

Yes, it does, And no, it hasn't.

[Captain Douchebag]

Stop believing everything Blizzard says without question. Just because they say he is stronger does not mean shit when the game, so far, has literally proven just how much weaker he is than what was depicted in Warcrafts past.

Yes, let's ignore what the people who write the lore and dictate what is canon and not, say about said lore, because we don't like it.

That's a bloody terrible message. This is how you end up with people spouting their own nonsensical headcanon as if it were fact.

[cparle87]

1 on 1 Arthas would had froze him just like he did to Tirion. Arthas would then eat his brains out.

Don't know where you came from, man, but you've quickly taken a place as one of the biggest trolls on these forums. Just looking at your signature we can tell you're either insane, trolling, or stoned on something major.

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Legion neutered him to the point that Illidan, without magic or any spells of any kind, caught his light infused blade bare handed.

If you watch the cinematic again closely, you'll see Illidan's hand bleeding from catching the sword, so it wasn't exactly nothing.

[Darkguyver2020]

Turalyon would win by default because the others are dead.

[Flurryfang]

Turalyon is more infused w/ light than either.

Apperantly he don't know how to use that light.

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I would say Tirion, Uther and then Turalyon. I think Tirion was by far the strongest lightweilder and could use the Ashbringer to its full extent because of faith and strength. Uther gets number 2, because he was just a really good warrior and still wielded the light quite well. Finally, while Turalyon is both a seasoned warrior and a wielder of light, it seems like he is more fragile then the other 2. Blizzard might be able to show us Turalyon being a total holy light badass, but undtil then, i set him as the worst of the 3.

[Deleted]

Turalyon is too blind and zealous in his faith

Uther doesn't seem to be too strong or too devout in the light

Tirion on the other hand faced Lich King, faced Legion on the Broken Shore and also was the one to make Ashbringer pure again

At this point, it would be Tirion vs Turalyon

And I think Tirion have stronger and more healthy fainh in the light. Not like Turalyon who is just too blinded by Xe'ra corruption

[Arganis]

Obviously not Uther, he lost to Arthas before Arthas was the LK. Tirion didn't exactly defeat him alone but he def got further than Uther, so that's that. As for Turalyon, who knows. 1000 years of war? Looks like he's turning into a literal Naaru he's so infused. So he might just be the best of the bunch but he hasn't done much to prove it, yet.

[Schattenlied]

Trion hands down. Followed by Turalyon and Uther.

I think Tirion has the most skills while also wielding the best artifact out of the three.

We have no way to quantify which weapon is stronger... Ashbringer VS Uther's Hammer? Maybe, but given no one has even been found worthy to wield it since his death, we have no way to determine this.... Ashbringer vs Turalyon's sword that is literally made of light? We have not a single clue which one is "best".

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If you watch the cinematic again closely, you'll see Illidan's hand bleeding from catching the sword, so it wasn't exactly nothing.

Logic dictates it should have gone through his hand, and taken his head off, but blizzard couldn't allow that because Illidan. This isn't "lore because the sword wasn't strong or sharp enough", this is Blizzard writing bad... Let Illidan stop the sword, just not with his fucking hand because that makes no goddamn sense at all, even in Warcraft.

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Obviously not Uther, he lost to Arthas before Arthas was the LK. Tirion didn't exactly defeat him alone but he def got further than Uther, so that's that.

Tirion won by suckerpunch in a 26v1 after 25 people beat on Arthas for 15 minutes to weaken him significantly(very nearly kill him), and while Arthas was distracted with a reanimation ritual for said 25 people. Not exactly a feat of strength there...

Like I said an another thread just today, in a straight up 1v1 the exact same thing would have happened to Tirion that happened to him at the start of the LK fight, frozen in a block of ice... and then Arthas would have killed him, the only reason he wasn't killed in the LK fight is because Arthas wanted him to have to watch us die, Arthas otherwise would have just shoved Frostmourne through Tirion's chest.

[Arganis]

Tirion won by suckerpunch in a 26v1 after 25 people beat on Arthas for 15 minutes to weaken him significantly(very nearly kill him), and while Arthas was distracted with a reanimation ritual for said 25 people. Not exactly a feat of strength there...

No, not exactly, but that's still better than Uther who got his ass handed to him by Arthas long before he had his full powers and despite throwing everything at him except the kitchen sink.

[Scrysis]

Tirion. He struck down a foe as powerful as the Lich King in his twilight years, after purifying Ashbringer with his faith alone. Turalyon didn't really have to rely on faith -- he had the Naaru and the draenai with him the whole time. He was also made to be ageless.

I'm sorry, but that makes Tirion more badass in my eyes. He had real handicaps -- his age, his exile, the fact that the Silver Hand was essentially gone, the Scarlet Crusade was corrupted by a demon and slaughtering hapless innocents, and the Argent Dawn was barely a handful of ragtag defenders that had been infiltrated by the Lich King. And then the Lich King arrived with a whole battalion of deathknights and started slaughtering everything. Tirion came back, and put together a literal ARMY to kick the Lich King off his lawn. Turalyon had everything handed to him by comparison.

Sorry, Uther, you just weren't on the scene long enough for me put you in the comparison list.

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Tirion won by suckerpunch in a 26v1 after 25 people beat on Arthas for 15 minutes to weaken him significantly(very nearly kill him), and while Arthas was distracted with a reanimation ritual for said 25 people. Not exactly a feat of strength there...

Like I said an another thread just today, in a straight up 1v1 the exact same thing would have happened to Tirion that happened to him at the start of the LK fight, frozen in a block of ice... and then Arthas would have killed him, the only reason he wasn't killed in the LK fight is because Arthas wanted him to have to watch us die, Arthas otherwise would have just shoved Frostmourne through Tirion's chest.

If you noticed, most of the time in a lot of lore, players just aren't there or don't exist for main events. Canonically, it was probably written that Tirion kicked the Lich King's ass by himself.

[Maylander]

Uther, most likely. The crazy escalation of power that we see in-game shouldn't be transferred to lore. Uther was the most badass Paladin alive not that many years ago, well ahead of both Turalyon and Tirion. No reason that would have changed a whole lot. A certain level of power is a certain level of power, as proven by the Legion and the fact that they have gained next to nothing in 10.000 years. Most of them have hit their "power ceiling" as it were.

As for Uther getting killed by Arthas: Arthas needed an army of undead to kill him, but flattened Illidan 1v1 at the end of TFT, when Illidan was in his prime. There's nothing to indicate that Illidan has gained a whole lot since then, and he just brushed off Turalyon like a scrub.

[Meanshield]

Turalyon is a great character, but he would not have such a huge storyline if not Uther and the mighty Tirion had already given their lives.

I still think Tirion was the best of the 3, as he was not as much for Alliance, but more for all the sides of Azeroth. The way they disposed of him was silly. Honestly, with Legion they killed off too many great characters and not given those already given much less screentime bigger roles.

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Uther, most likely. The crazy escalation of power that we see in-game shouldn't be transferred to lore. Uther was the most badass Paladin alive not that many years ago, well ahead of both Turalyon and Tirion. No reason that would have changed a whole lot. A certain level of power is a certain level of power, as proven by the Legion and the fact that they have gained next to nothing in 10.000 years. Most of them have hit their "power ceiling" as it were.

As for Uther getting killed by Arthas: Arthas needed an army of undead to kill him, but flattened Illidan 1v1 at the end of TFT, when Illidan was in his prime. There's nothing to indicate that Illidan has gained a whole lot since then, and he just brushed off Turalyon like a scrub.

Arthas didnt flatten Illidan - Lich King-empowered Arthas did. There's a vast difference.

[Qualia]

Edit: Seriously, what the fuck has Illidan done to gain power since his defeat at Black Temple? Nothing. He was resurrected at the Night Well and began fighting demons again on the Broken Shore. He's the problem here, not Turalyon. If anything, the fact that Turalyon can draw Illidan's blood through all that plot armor at this point should be a fucking Feat of Strength that qualifies Turalyon for every raid in the next 15 expansions.

He didn't gain any power (or at least, none significant enough), but he regained his original strength. When we defeated him at Black Temple, he was already in a half dead state (due to an incident happened before) AND had to use most of his power to keep the connection open for the DHs to come back. He faced us with barely a fragment of his true strength, pretty much.

As for Uther getting killed by Arthas: Arthas needed an army of undead to kill him, but flattened Illidan 1v1 at the end of TFT, when Illidan was in his prime. There's nothing to indicate that Illidan has gained a whole lot since then, and he just brushed off Turalyon like a scrub.

Well, first thing first, LK-empowered Arthas only won against Illidan at the end of TFT because Illidan was being over-confident and Arthas managed to get the final strike in. The fight was pretty even before that, and leaned more towards Illidan as he blasted Arthas to his knees with fel fire.

Secondly, Illidan was NOT in his prime during TFT, far from it. I assume you haven't read the novel "Illidan"? During his time on Outland, before TBC, Illidan had time to digest and took in the power of Sargeras he took from the Tomb of Sargeras (instead of just the Eye as shown during TFT). This was mentioned again by Maiev in the audio drama ("Ner'zhul took some of its power. Illidan took the rest"). Apparently, that was good enough that Akama flat out stated that: "Yet he is free now and he has grown mighty", and "You have no conception of how strong Illidan has become. I saw him work sorcery that I would not have believed possible for anyone less than a god". Even A'dal, whose power was described to be enough to destroy cities and mountains if unleashed, admitted that Illidan is more powerful. With just a dozen of souls, he opened a portal and collapsed it, unleashing a force that could destroy an continent. Well, I can list more of this, but I think that was enough to make the point clear: with the release of "Illidan" (the novel), Illidan's full power has been pretty much buffed to another level. Arthas - LK Arthas for that matter - has never shown or indicated that he was capable of the same level of destruction.

So what the others said in regards to Illidan / Turalyon was right. It wasn't an indication of how weak Turalyon was, it was a statement of how OP Illidan is.

[Arrashi]

Uther because he is deepest, best written character with gripping personality that shakes fundation of all well-estabilished paladin tropes.

[Eazy]

That has way more to do with Illidan being Mary-Sue'd to the point of being able to kill a Naaru Prime after being chained up and light raped with just his eye lasers and you know it.

Edit: Seriously, what the fuck has Illidan done to gain power since his defeat at Black Temple? Nothing. He was resurrected at the Night Well and began fighting demons again on the Broken Shore. He's the problem here, not Turalyon. If anything, the fact that Turalyon can draw Illidan's blood through all that plot armor at this point should be a fucking Feat of Strength that qualifies Turalyon for every raid in the next 15 expansions.

He didn't need to become more powerful, because he was already one of the strongest being on Azeroth when we fought with him at the Black Temple. Back then he was on his death bed and exhausted... if Maiev didn't come then he could've killed us all. (Same plot for Arthas and his Fury of the Frostmourne)

Even Alleria admitted his power, after he destroyed Xe'ra.

He didn't gain any power (or at least, none significant enough), but he regained his original strength. When we defeated him at Black Temple, he was already in a half dead state (due to an incident happened before) AND had to use most of his power to keep the connection open for the DHs to come back. He faced us with barely a fragment of his true strength, pretty much.


Well, first thing first, LK-empowered Arthas only won against Illidan at the end of TFT because Illidan was being over-confident and Arthas managed to get the final strike in. The fight was pretty even before that, and leaned more towards Illidan as he blasted Arthas to his knees with fel fire.

Secondly, Illidan was NOT in his prime during TFT, far from it. I assume you haven't read the novel "Illidan"? During his time on Outland, before TBC, Illidan had time to digest and took in the power of Sargeras he took from the Tomb of Sargeras (instead of just the Eye as shown during TFT). This was mentioned again by Maiev in the audio drama ("Ner'zhul took some of its power. Illidan took the rest"). Apparently, that was good enough that Akama flat out stated that: "Yet he is free now and he has grown mighty", and "You have no conception of how strong Illidan has become. I saw him work sorcery that I would not have believed possible for anyone less than a god". Even A'dal, whose power was described to be enough to destroy cities and mountains if unleashed, admitted that Illidan is more powerful. With just a dozen of souls, he opened a portal and collapsed it, unleashing a force that could destroy an continent. Well, I can list more of this, but I think that was enough to make the point clear: with the release of "Illidan" (the novel), Illidan's full power has been pretty much buffed to another level. Arthas - LK Arthas for that matter - has never shown or indicated that he was capable of the same level of destruction.

So what the others said in regards to Illidan / Turalyon was right. It wasn't an indication of how weak Turalyon was, it was a statement of how OP Illidan is.

[cparle87]

Logic dictates it should have gone through his hand, and taken his head off, but blizzard couldn't allow that because Illidan. This isn't "lore because the sword wasn't strong or sharp enough", this is Blizzard writing bad... Let Illidan stop the sword, just not with [I]his fucking hand because that makes no goddamn sense at all, even in Warcraft.

By that same logic with Draenosh Saurfang charged at the Lich King with his axe raised he should've knocked him back at least with both his weight advantage and the fact he was moving while Arthas was standing still. But no, from a neutral position Arthas swung his sword, shattered an axe, slashed through Draenosh's armor into his body, killing him, and knocking him back.

Are you seriously trying to argue combat physics in a game where a gnome can use a shield the size of a hubcap to block an attack from a 300 foot tall infernal?

[Deleted]

Although I would like to say Tirion gotta admit Turalion fighting with a half blade and a half army against fel in unknown territory is a fuckin John Rambo .

[cparle87]

Tirion. He struck down a foe as powerful as the Lich King in his twilight years, after purifying Ashbringer with his faith alone. Turalyon didn't really have to rely on faith -- he had the Naaru and the draenai with him the whole time. He was also made to be ageless.

I'm sorry, but that makes Tirion more badass in my eyes. He had real handicaps -- his age, his exile, the fact that the Silver Hand was essentially gone, the Scarlet Crusade was corrupted by a demon and slaughtering hapless innocents, and the Argent Dawn was barely a handful of ragtag defenders that had been infiltrated by the Lich King. And then the Lich King arrived with a whole battalion of deathknights and started slaughtering everything. Tirion came back, and put together a literal ARMY to kick the Lich King off his lawn. Turalyon had everything handed to him by comparison.

Sorry, Uther, you just weren't on the scene long enough for me put you in the comparison list.

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If you noticed, most of the time in a lot of lore, players just aren't there or don't exist for main events. Canonically, it was probably written that Tirion kicked the Lich King's ass by himself.

Generally it's just said "a group of adventurers" did the things, being led by whatever lore figures were present. From time to time they draw new npc characters who were among a specific "group of adventurers" which did a certain thing. For instance all the Council of the Black Harvest npcs were warlock "players" who were present at the fall of Illidan, Cho'gall, Ragnaros, Deathwing, et al. There's even an in-lore Scarab Lord who was "the one" who opened Ahn'qiraj. So it's acknowledged there were adventurers with him. That's why he held the Trial of the Crusader in the first place, come to think of it.

[Sfinna]

Turalyon hands down would win. A thousand years of battle experience under his belt, becoming Lightforged, not to mention his previous exploits in the Second War.

[caervek]

As characters go, Tirion all the way, arguably THE best character that WoW has produced (by that I mean one created/developed in WoW, not brought in from Warcraft).

It's a huge injustice that the new dev team treated his death as a matter of secondary importance to that of Varian's, despite Tirion being a more important figure to the game.

As far as power goes, Tirion beats Uther because he managed to beat Arthas at light's hope and Arthas was immensely more powerful than when he killed Uther, then he killed Athas with an assist from the PCs.

I would also put Tirion ahead of Turalyon because of what I just said plus the fact that even while in old age and retirement with no Ashbringer he was fighting off half the scourge in the plaguelands by himself while everyone else out there were getting overrun in groups. By comparison Turalyon needed my help to hold his own against a generic elite demon and then his wife had to save us lol. He couldn't even kill Illidan while he was weakened, albeit post retcon superIllidan, but still.