Few foreign-born pass test to become doctors

[draganid]

Are doctors from Middle East less skilled (or rather educated, which is what this test is testing) than Europeans ones ?

Presumably. But North American medecine boards have also been rejecting candidates from dangerous foreign hellholes such as ''UK'' or ''France''-there is more than a hit of corporatism at play here.

very true, if you didnt study medicine in canada or the US, good luck becoming a doctor in either country. the human body must be so different in europe!

[Spectral]

Are doctors from Middle East less skilled (or rather educated, which is what this test is testing) than Europeans ones ?

Presumably. But North American medecine boards have also been rejecting candidates from dangerous foreign hellholes such as ''UK'' or ''France''-there is more than a hit of corporatism at play here.

I don't think "corporatism" is the appropriate term here. Guilds and cartels predate corporations by a fair bit. There's surely some overlap in the rent seeking policies thinly disguised as "licensing", but it's not just a corporate thing.

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Many agree with you. And many of those people also defend Uber on these forums.

Are there a lot of Uber drivers that don't have a license to drive? Taxi monopolies are just about the best possible example of rent seeking policies that are against public interest. A bit more regulation for Uber is a reasonable ask, but artificially restricted supplies of drivers is pretty stupid.

[Puupi]

Are there a lot of Uber drivers that don't have a license to drive?

There is more to passenger transportation than just having a license to drive. Also, the vehicle itself plays a huge part in this discussion.

[Spectral]

There is more to passenger transportation than just having a license to drive. Also, the vehicle itself plays a huge part in this discussion.

This is not even a remotely plausible argument for taxi cartels.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yeaaah... It's supposed to be hard, can't lower the standards. We already have people from all over Europe coming here POSING as doctors, whilst having received their license through cheating and faking test results.

[Twix]

very true, if you didnt study medicine in canada or the US, good luck becoming a doctor in either country. the human body must be so different in europe!

In Canada, a large portion of a doctor's education is paid by the government so most residency spots are reserved for Canadian students. There are a few residency spots for international doctors up for grabs and unfortunately a lot of people get rejected. Makes sense that the government is favoring Canadians since they spent taxpayer money to educate them. It would be a waste if they couldn't get a job because foreign doctors are stealing their spots.

[Machismo]

I'm assuming this is Daneman's new alt account.

[Donald Hellscream]

Well since the profession is one where the well being of your fellow humans is your charge every day I'd say it is reasonable for the test to be hard.

I can however also understand the frustration of someone who has studied for years and gotten their medical license albeit in a foreign country to all of sudden feel like their degree isn't being acknowledged, just someone is a refugee from the middle east does not mean they cannot be well-educated, they aren't all people living in weathered clay huts in the desert.

[Fojos]

When you sit in a Uber you are trusting your life and well-being on the hands of the driver.

Well, do you really think there's a difference in a regular cab? They don't test how safe you drive. We need to open the monolopy to eventually allow autonomous taxis.

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Well since the profession is one where the well being of your fellow humans is your charge every day I'd say it is reasonable for the test to be hard.

I can however also understand the frustration of someone who has studied for years and gotten their medical license albeit in a foreign country to all of sudden feel like their degree isn't being acknowledged, just someone is a refugee from the middle east does not mean they cannot be well-educated, they aren't all people living in weathered clay huts in the desert.

Except we already know the quality of the education there is very underwhelming.

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In Canada, a large portion of a doctor's education is paid by the government so most residency spots are reserved for Canadian students. There are a few residency spots for international doctors up for grabs and unfortunately a lot of people get rejected. Makes sense that the government is favoring Canadians since they spent taxpayer money to educate them. It would be a waste if they couldn't get a job because foreign doctors are stealing their spots.

Waste for the doctor, but cost effective for the government (the canadian educated one would still become a doctor).

In Sweden we have AT for two years after finishing the 5.5 year program. Queues for this are often one to two years. During this time the yearly wage is from 42 000 to 46 600 USD.

At the same time none of the other EU countries have AT (they receive full legitimation straight after 6 years instead). Their starting salaries are instead 65 000 to 77 000 USD.

The ones educated here still have a tendency to stay anyway.

[sarahtasher]

I don't think "corporatism" is the appropriate term here. Guilds and cartels predate corporations by a fair bit. There's surely some overlap in the rent seeking policies thinly disguised as "licensing", but it's not just a corporate thing.

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Are there a lot of Uber drivers that don't have a license to drive? Taxi monopolies are just about the best possible example of rent seeking policies that are against public interest. A bit more regulation for Uber is a reasonable ask, but artificially restricted supplies of drivers is pretty stupid.

My bad. But in french, this is truly what is called corporatism (''corporation'' is not widely used, or at least correctly used, to describe a business)

[Fojos]

very true, if you didnt study medicine in canada or the US, good luck becoming a doctor in either country. the human body must be so different in europe!

Several of my previous colleauges are now specialists in the US (with more than three times the salary and less than half the tax rate, interestingly).

[Malacrass]

there's no such fucking thing as a doctor's test that's too hard. you're dealing with people's lives here, this isn't a place for fuck ups that glided through on easy shit.

Actually they do have a point. I don't know how medschool works in Sweden, but the pre-clinical part here (where you don't work with people) is filled to the brim with pure theory. When asked, most students claim that the first 2 years are one of the most brutal, simply because it's so much information you have to memorize by heart. Information that is largely forgotten in no-time and only aquired to pass the first major tests. Information that's hardly useful in their jobs - or only useful when deepened much later in your career

I don't know what the Swedish test is asking for, but if it's the entire content of 6+ years of uni then I can understand the irritation.

[Rustedsaint]

Swedish doctors are also claiming the test is too hard.

I repeat , how dare these racist tests keep under skilled doctors out of the hospitals.
This ain't a casual job, people lives will be trusted to these people so they need to be fully tested to ensure the safety of both the people under their care and the hospital they get hired at(not 100% sure about doctors hiring process, assuming it's different from say a engineer or baker interview)

[Mormolyce]

there's no such fucking thing as a doctor's test that's too hard. you're dealing with people's lives here, this isn't a place for fuck ups that glided through on easy shit.

Exams mean jack shit in the real world, take it from me. Making a test harder won't measurably improve your healthcare outcomes.

[ls-]

That's kinda normal that foreigners have to pass test/exams/etc which are harder than the ones for natives. So even if tests are harder for them, at least according to few in this thread, that's no biggie.

[XDurionX]

There's nothing wrong with having strict tests, but if even swedish doctor's say it's too strict, there's a problem. Plus there is no gold standard for medical education, and the same illness can be treated in different ways in different countries, and it's not easy to say which way is "better".

[Aggrophobic]

Omg, another Sweden thread about immigration/race bullshit. Do we really need a new one of these every fucking day?

Well, you know. The OP posts about nothing else. Most likely his job.

[Airlick]

There are clear lines where you stop testing functional knowledge and just start testing memory. Seeing as Sweden doesn't seem to have an epidemic of mal-practice suits, I think their previous test was likely fine.

I really don't care if my doctor can't quote the third line on the 300th page of Gray's Anatomy. I do care that they can properly diagnosis symptoms and can apply that to researching what may be wrong with me, in a way that clearer than webmd.

A doctor's work is very much based on memorizing things. You can't properly diagnose a condition if you don't remember given symptoms can indicate a given disease. And then you also need to be able to communicate with your patient in a way they understand you, and frankly, waving hands and pointing at things is good enough for ordering a beer or kebab in a bar, but not for telling your patient what may be wrong with them.

So yeah, a doctor's test should be hard, and it should test the memory, practical medical skills AND fluency in whatever language it's being taken in. It could probably be taken in English as well, though.

[truckboattruck]

it really depends what kind of foreign they are
intelligence is hereditary as it pertains to race

[Deleted]

Why do I have a feeling that some time from now they are going to give that test to native born doctors, and they are gonna fail just as hard?

Tests like that exists for a good reason, and of course it shouldn't be less just because people fail (Hopefully you can apply more than once to try it), but they have a tendency to be beyond the actual level that anyone is.