When did questing become so LINEAR?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Questing is terrible now, nothing is memorable besides a few storylines. Vanilla and BC areas you go through so much back and forth you learn it all, locations, pathways, mob spawns, and everything is a vast environment not some secluded crappy area with 15 minutes of content each. Max level in recent expansions and you have no idea about anything in the world because you did 2 quests here 2 quests there and moved to another area.
In the old days they build a World and filled it with some content. Now they build content and stitch it together in a world that doesn't make sense.

In the old days they losely built a world and put quests and questlines willy nilly around, paying no heed to storyline beyond the quest text in most cases with only a few more expansive questlines, which are the ones people remember and then apply to each zone and every quest hub because stupidity. Calling Classic leveling content "the epitome of game quest design" is like looking at the retarded running horse and saying "God's perfect creation!".

Now they build a world meant to tell a cohesive story, but with added smaller elements in terms of local story quests as well where the storylines are FINISHED and not just random texts giving you a reason for why you need to collect bear asses. The leveling experience is no longer disjointed.

And if you're able to finish say, a Legion zone through all its story content in 15 minutes, then you're a hacker.

[Paulosio]

The only time it wasn't like this was during Vanilla... I don't know why people are saying it started in Cata etc. From Burning Crusade on it's always been a case of you get a quest that sends you to a quest hub, you do the quests from that hub and then you get another quest that sends you onto the next hub. Its ALWAYS been that way since Vanilla.

Sure there were also a few quests that you might just stumble upon while travelling around but that's still the case now. There are quests you don't get sent to which aren't part of the main story line in Legion too. The quests at Felblaze Ingress in Azsuna springs to mind.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'll judge it again when the game stops being a collection of smaller stand-alone games with different themes and features, and you can play the latest one only. One possible solution could be the scaling tech, but 1-60 won't be enough - you should know all the time you're playing the same game you started regardless of a level.

Right now my grandma's patchwork quilt looks more uniform than the game of World of Warcraft.

Lol, yeah... I'm sure they'll dispose of 13 years worth of questing content and areas.

If you can't keep track, that's a you problem. I started playing when there was quite a lot of different leveling content, and I was able to keep track just fine of where I was and why.

They'll fix the pre-MoP world in this game by applying Legion tech, not by reverting to pre-WOTLK quest design.

[Sparklelord]

The zones are fairly linear (and that's a good thing) but there are side quests you can find. The biggest thing is at least you can pick and jump between zones.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

That's not true at all, if you did that then you would still have two full zones left by the time you reached max level. Most players skipped to the next zone before finishing all of one then went back later, and there were two endgame L70 zones (SMV and Netherstorm) to explore/conquer.

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Disagree totally. The Vanilla/TBC/Wotlk/etc method was much better than the new linear WoD/Legion method. It feels more like playing through a generic single player game now than an MMORPG.

There was 0 story telling in Vanilla and TBC. WotLK questing was pretty linear itself, which is why it was good.

[Deleted]

I must be playing a different game because I find Legion to be the least linear expansion for questing. I don't think I've followed the same path on any of my 12 110's thanks to class/profession quests and being able to pick which zone I quest in regardless of level.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I must be playing a different game because I find Legion to be the least linear expansion for questing. I don't think I've followed the same path on any of my 12 110's thanks to class/profession quests and being able to pick which zone I quest in regardless of level.

That's true as well.

The scaling tech + class specific quests + being able to jump freely between zones + Invasions = there are many choices for what route to go.

[Heladys]

Questing was always linear, from one perspective. You always had quests that led to other quests. The difference is that they used to be utterly disconnected with very little breadcrumbs linking them so you could do this cluster of quests here, then this cluster of quests there, and maybe if you found it this cluster of quests over behind that tree.

And if you finished enough of them maybe you could start the next chain, or else you could give up and go find another zone to try to progress in. There's a good reason there used to be all these massive lists of quests everyone missed to complete the loremaster achieves.

Now there's a better narrative linkage and fewer isolated clusters without breadcrumbs, because why put development effort into building content people won't find and play?

[Paulosio]

That's not true at all, if you did that then you would still have two full zones left by the time you reached max level. Most players skipped to the next zone before finishing all of one then went back later, and there were two endgame L70 zones (SMV and Netherstorm) to explore/conquer.

Netherstorm and Shadowmoon Valley are level 67-70 zones... That's when you get the bread crumb quest that sends you there to begin the zone quests. It even tells you that on the BC world map when you mouse over those zones.

I also don't think you have any actual facts about what "most players" did or didn't do. Anecdotal evidence based on what you and a few friends and guildies doesn't show anything.

[Deleted]

Cataclysm was the turning point when Activision came on board. They made the questing more mainstream friendly to get the Call of Duty crowd engaged with the game.

[Anjerith]

Cataclysm was the turning point when Activision came on board. They made the questing more mainstream friendly to get the Call of Duty crowd engaged with the game.

Ah, Internet fact. I needed 10 chars to post this so here is the real response;
No.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Cataclysm was the turning point when Activision came on board. They made the questing more mainstream friendly to get the Call of Duty crowd engaged with the game.

"Mainstream friendly"... Like, gtfo.
Activision didn't start IMPROVING the quest design and making it actually have cohesive storylines, Blizzard did.

But I suppose this shows how deluded people are as they believe pre-WOTLK quest design to be some sort of clever strategy rather than just boiling down to the following: "We don't know wtf we're doing here... Just whip something together!".

[deniter]

Lol, yeah... I'm sure they'll dispose of 13 years worth of questing content and areas.

If you can't keep track, that's a you problem. I started playing when there was quite a lot of different leveling content, and I was able to keep track just fine of where I was and why.

They'll fix the pre-MoP world in this game by applying Legion tech, not by reverting to pre-WOTLK quest design.

Whatever they'll do is better than what we have now. I don't mind sweet even tho i prefer salty, but seasoning with both sugar and salt seldom works.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Whatever they'll do is better than what we have now. I don't mind sweet even tho i prefer salty, but seasoning with both sugar and salt seldom works.

Not sure I follow anymore, but alas.

Considering they haven't touched the leveling zones between 1-60, 60-70 and 70-80 since Cata came out, I'd say it's OK, with Outland and Northrend being the biggest offenders in disjointing shit. The real good questing content doesn't start for real until MoP zones and forward though, with a few exceptions in 1-60 zones such as Silverpine forest.

I sure hope the rework will come, and that they'll make it stand the test of time better than the Cata rework did. How will they manage that? By employing Legion quest zone design and tech.

[Magnagarde]

I came back to WoW for the first time since wrath. Now don't get me wrong, the quality of the quests are probably the best they've ever been...BUT I have never felt so guarded from veering off into my own path and exploring the world.

The zones feel a lot more condensed and there seems to be virtually no open space that doesn't involve a scripted quest.





Just an observation

The exploration of the majority of each and every zone went down to a linear questline, whereas there were only token adventures around these. The zones were specifically designed to server one questline's purpose it seems. I felt the same way.

[caervek]

There was 0 story telling in Vanilla and TBC. WotLK questing was pretty linear itself, which is why it was good.

No offense but if you believe that then you simply either didn't do most of the quests or just skipped through the text.

Rescuing Marshal Windsor and revealing Onyxia.
The huge Tirion Fordring chain.
The Ras frostwhisper chain.
The Dungeon set 2 chain.
The class quests.
The Awbee quest (his return in WoD was one of the best moments for the expansion lol).

Those are just some of the more memorable ones from Vanilla and don't even touch on the epic TBC ones like the Oronok Torn-heart chain. Vanilla/TBC/WotLK had some of the best quotes chains the game's ever seen and blow WoD/Legion out of the water for immersion, mostly because you're part of your own story and everyone else is a supporting character/story whereas now you're a supporting character in the lame story the new devs are telling.

I.E ending Illidan's reign of terror was made all the more sweeter after doing dozens of quests and seeing the evils/suffering he had inflicted and his cruelty. Fighting alongside him because he's been retconned into a tragic antihero and he needs faceless followers to whack mobs as part of his story is just meh by comparison and feels far less epic.

[Deleted]

What bothers me isn't even the linearity but that you sometimes just flat-out can't access some questshubs without the prequest. I cannot do things for the blue dragons or start the seagiant/naga area in azsuna unless I deal with some demons, which doesn't really do anything. In Stormheim you need to progress on Odyns quests before you can do things for Sylvanas. If I complete Stormheim, why can't I just straight up go to eyir with Sylvanas in tow? Why can't I start there and get told that I need to do the test of X/show I'm worthy beforehand? Why can't I help Sylvanas or Eyir in there? The first time I felt kinda betrayed, fuck Sylvanas, why isn't Odyn angry about that?
Keep the breadcrumb stuff but don't lock the majority of quests behind it!
For me that also lead to almost missing some sidequests because if everything is locked behind a giant chain, you don't expect some random things here and there. I only did the Moonkin cave in Val'sharah after a daily. The Winery in Azsuna also feels kinda wierd. You'd expect Farondis to know about them but he doesn't tell you about it unless you have the daily there.

[TickTickTick]

You are under fake impression you are guided because the quests are part of the story now and the flow is much more logical.

Lets compare first zones of each expansion:
- Hellfire Peninsula - the zone has no main story at all. While there is a raid in that zone, only handful of quests are leading through this arc. You fight the Alliance/Horde, the hellfire orcs, arrakoa, those weird creatures at the west, aiding cenarion circle... so many stories not connected to each other
- Howling Fjord/Borean Tundra - while Howling Fjord had you fight the kvaldir, you also fight the opposing faction, scourge, mad dwarves, dryads... Borean was even bigger mismatch, with Eye of Eternity being the raid here, with so many different, not connected stories all around
-Hyjal/Vash'jr - here is when the zones start to focus on one main story. I dont remember much of Vashj'r, but Hyjal has you basically fight the Twilight's Hammer, repair the destruction they brought, and helping out the ancients. All connected.
-Jade forest - the zone has 3 main story lines, which indirectly are connected. 1. getting to know pandaren culture (since it was basically new lore), getting to know the sha and what threat they really are 3. alliance-horde conflict (strongly)
-Shadowmoon Forest/Frostfire Ridge - helping out the natives (frostwolf and draenei) and pushing back the invading clan
-Legion is tricky cause basically there are 4 starting zones but... Azshuna - demons are obvious, but main plot is pursuing the tidestone. Val'sharah - getting up the archdruids and chasing xavius. Highmountain - uniting the highmountain tribes and chasing dargul. Stormheim - a bit of alliance-horde conflict (moreso with Sylvanas vs Graymane) and passing the trials.

Since cataclysm quest revamp we actually know what we are doing in each zone. Before, most of them were just random events, which were connected only by the zone name.

[cparle87]

I came back to WoW for the first time since wrath. Now don't get me wrong, the quality of the quests are probably the best they've ever been...BUT I have never felt so guarded from veering off into my own path and exploring the world.

The zones feel a lot more condensed and there seems to be virtually no open space that doesn't involve a scripted quest.





Just an observation

Cataclysm did that when they remade the old world. You get a breadcrumb to a quest hub, get up to half a dozen or so quests, do them, they get sent along to the next hub. Go check out the new Barrens, it's like a caravan. This is the new style of questing. You can still find the old style stuff in Azuremyst, Quel'thalas, Outland, and Northrend. But Cataclysm and newer all does this.

[Montanahax]

Cataclysm!