Why is the abortion debate framed as pro-choice vs pro-life?

[Total Crica]

See what I posted above.

I don't care about your opinion of me, I care about this 100% pregnancy proof contraception you know about. What is it?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Not having sex is 100% effective for not getting pregnant. Absolutely.

And then there's still the matter of rape, which applies to men and women, but only the raped woman would be forced to carry and give birth to the child of the rapist.

Short of forcefully removing the reproductive organs of every man and woman walking the streets, there is no 100% way to assure you won't get pregnant as a woman, or make someone pregnant as a man. It's rarer in the case of men being raped, but it happens. Women get pregnant from rape every single day though, and fat men sitting on the other side of the planet sign executive orders to stop support for these women's choice cuz "muh religious morals"...

[ablock87]

I don't care about your opinion of me, I care about this 100% pregnancy proof contraception you know about. What is it?

I already posted it several times. If you choose to ignore it, that's on you.

[Total Crica]

I already posted it several times. If you choose to ignore it, that's on you.

I didn't ignore it, I was practicing abstinence when I became pregnant. Is that the only one you know about? It's not 100% pregnancy proof, sorry.

[ablock87]

And then there's still the matter of rape, which applies to men and women, but only the raped woman would be forced to carry and give birth to the child of the rapist.

The matter of pregnancy through rape is so statistically low, it shouldn't even be used in arguments, but I will say that rape is abhorrent and wrong and I also think abortion is pretty abhorrent, used only as a last option. Unless the child is threatening the life of the mother, you can always put it up for adoption.

[Total Crica]

The matter of pregnancy through rape is so statistically low, it shouldn't even be used in arguments, but I will say that rape is abhorrent and wrong and I also think abortion is pretty abhorrent, used only as a last option. Unless the child is threatening the life of the mother, you can always put it up for adoption.

I am not going to remain pregnant just because you want me to, sorry. But if there were a 100% pregnancy proof contraception that had zero side effects for me, I would use it! Let me know if you ever make one, thanks!

[ablock87]

I am not going to remain pregnant just because you want me to, sorry. But if there were a 100% pregnancy proof contraception that had zero side effects for me, I would use it! Let me know if you ever make one, thanks!

Your emotional responses don't convince me. Come back with a legit thought and try again.

[Deleted]

To be fair, saying that rape is proof that abstinence isn't a 100% reliable form of birth control is a bit of a misnomer and deflects attention from the actual problem. Abstinence didn't cause the pregnancy, the *rape* did. In a "normal", "civilised" society people wouldn't *be* raped, so abstinence is indeed a 100% guaranteed way to not get pregnant. That there is a subset of society willing to override abstinence in this way is not a condemnation of the method itself so much as the people who would do things like that.

[Queen of Hamsters]

The matter of pregnancy through rape is so statistically low, it shouldn't even be used in arguments, but I will say that rape is abhorrent and wrong and I also think abortion is pretty abhorrent, used only as a last option. Unless the child is threatening the life of the mother, you can always put it up for adoption.

I see someone's unaware of other countries outside of the 1st world ones.

"You can always put it up for abortion" = the woman would have to carry and give birth to the child. Fuck off, the woman's freedom >> your misguided morals.

I say this as a woman who could never, and never have, aborted a child.

[Halyon]

The matter of pregnancy through rape is so statistically low, it shouldn't even be used in arguments, but I will say that rape is abhorrent and wrong and I also think abortion is pretty abhorrent, used only as a last option. Unless the child is threatening the life of the mother, you can always put it up for adoption.

It damn well is important when you claim 100% efficiency on abstinence as birth control. 2-3% of abortions (just in the US) are due to rape. I don't care how insignificant you personally think that is, but saying that it's still 100% effective is ludicrous.

Abstinence AND your choice of BC medication is mighty safe. But you know what? It still isn't 100%.

[Total Crica]

Your emotional responses don't convince me. Come back with a legit thought and try again.

There was no emotion in my post. I simply don't want to remain pregnant simply because you want me to, sorry. Nor is there a contraception available at this time that ensures I never become pregnant, so I might one day become pregnant again and well, abort again. Sorry in advance!

[ablock87]

I see someone's unaware of other countries outside of the 1st world ones.

"You can always put it up for abortion" = the woman would have to carry and give birth to the child. Fuck off, the woman's freedom >> your misguided morals.

"fuck off" isn't an argument.

Also, you would trust 3rd world countries abortion techniques but think they don't have a system for adoption. Tell me who's really unaware.

There was no emotion in my post.

Your passive aggressive tone implies otherwise.

[Halyon]

To be fair, saying that rape is proof that abstinence isn't a 100% reliable form of birth control is a bit of a misnomer and deflects attention from the actual problem. Abstinence didn't cause the pregnancy, the *rape* did. In a "normal", "civilised" society people wouldn't *be* raped, so abstinence is indeed a 100% guaranteed way to not get pregnant. That there is a subset of society willing to override abstinence in this way is not a condemnation of the method itself so much as the people who would do things like that.

No, it isn't. Abstinence ONLY means that the person elects to not have intercourse with anyone willingly. Rape is forced, involuntary intercourse.

[Total Crica]

Abstinence didn't cause the pregnancy

Abstinence isn't a 100% pregnancy proof birth control. No one thinks it will cause pregnancy, LOL!

[Queen of Hamsters]

"fuck off" isn't an argument.

Also, you would trust 3rd world countries abortion techniques but think they don't have a system for adoption. Tell me who's really unaware.

Your "arguments" are all based in feels rather than reality.

Nice attempt to deflect though. You're clearly hilariously ignorant when you believe that 3rd world abortion being sponsored and often carried out by 1st world countries would somehow take the backseat in quality to those countries adoption systems. India says hello.

[Total Crica]

Your passive aggressive tone

Your assumptions about my tone are wrong, sorry!

[Deleted]

There was no emotion in my post. I simply don't want to remain pregnant simply because you want me to, sorry. Nor is there a contraception available at this time that ensures I never become pregnant, so I might one day become pregnant again and well, abort again. Sorry in advance!

If we're including cases of activity the contraceptive method was never designed to counteract (abstinence doesn't account for the possibility of rape, obviously) then the only way to ensure a 100% never-become-pregnant contraceptive would be to eliminate rape entirely. As that's never going to happen, there's not much point in this argument. (note that this does not contradict what I said above, as I was referring to abstinence as 100% effective only in the context of the world we *should* live in where rape simply doesn't happen, and blaming contraception for people intentionally circumventing it is not the problem on which we should be focusing).

I mean, if you never, ever, ever, under any circumstances want to become pregnant at all in any way, there is a hysterectomy, but that's probably not what you were driving at.

[ablock87]

Your "arguments" are all based in feels rather than reality.

Nice attempt to deflect though. You're clearly hilariously ignorant when you believe that 3rd world abortion yada yada yada

irony in text form.

Your assumptions about my tone are wrong, sorry!

I highly doubt that. Sorry, cupcake!

[Deleted]

No, it isn't. Abstinence ONLY means that the person elects to not have intercourse with anyone willingly. Rape is forced, involuntary intercourse.

Right. What I'm saying is that the contraceptive method itself is reliable: it only becomes unreliable once someone chooses to circumvent it.

[Total Crica]

abstinence doesn't account for the possibility of rape

Then it can't ever be 100% until rape can never happen.