The Muslim cosplayer who uses the hijab in her outfits

[McFuu]

There's a reason why many female Muslims in western civilization often don't wear the hijab and other such clothing. Because they see the value in freedom and they weren't strictly forced(because we have laws against it) to wear them. It's funny what people do when they're presented with a choice

This is anecdotal, technically so is your statement, but that's besides the point.
Growing up I knew more Muslim, Sikh, and Indian people who were told to NOT wear traditional headwear because they lived in America now and the families wanted to fit in.

I actually don't know anyone forced to wear headwear. I had numerous friends growing up told not to by their families.

This is pre 9/11 btw, that had zero influence on them.

[Raelbo]

Brainwashed fits all religious teachings. Why? Because most of them come with real world punishments and all of them come with eternal torment in the afterlife.

This a broad generalisation that cannot be universally applied.

Do you think constantly beating the threat of eternal torment into a child's mind is a positive thing or a negative thing?

Of course not. But your attempt at trying to equate such a thing with all religions is called a strawman argument.

Yes, we're all socially influenced in some aspects, but to what extent is debatable. And surely you recognize the difference in a social influence like smoking and the threat of violence and eternal torment, right?

Yes. But like I have already said, you cannot equate all religion with "the threat of violence and eternal torment". It's a strawman argument.

There's a reason why many female Muslims in western civilization often don't wear the hijab and other such clothing. Because they see the value in freedom and they weren't strictly forced(because we have laws against it) to wear them. It's funny what people do when they're presented with a choice.

There's a reason many more female Muslims in western civilization do wear the hijab and other such clothing. Because they see the value in exercising their freedom to do so even though weren't forced to wear them. It's funny what people do when they're presented with a choice.

[Noomz]

Choosing to keep wearing it is exactly what freedom is about. Guess you need to go learn what freedom means. Irony.

Her freedom to be repressed. Internalised misogony is the term, I think. Yes what a wonderful freedom. You do know why they're made to wear them right? It's likely that if she stopped wearing it she'd be commiting a cultural faux pax and she'd be ostracised from the muslim community.

[Total Crica]

It's likely that if she stopped wearing it she'd be commiting a cultural faux pax and she'd be ostracised from the muslim community.

Kinda like your culture would do to me if I didn't wear a shirt in public? (am female)

[rhorle]

Her freedom to be repressed. Internalised misogony is the term, I think. Yes what a wonderful freedom. You do know why they're made to wear them right? It's likely that if she stopped wearing it she'd be commiting a cultural faux pax and she'd be ostracised from the muslim community.

Just like people wearing clothes. We are forced to wear them because if we don't we would be committing a cultural faux pas and ostracized from the community (assuming it isn't a nudist colony to begin with). Does that mean everyone that is wearing clothes is forced to wear them? And that no one can choose to wear clothes because they want to?

Just because some, or most, or forced to do something does not mean that everyone is. Thinking like that is just as bad as those who oppress because you are being an oppressor. You are oppressing any Muslim woman who freely choose to wear a Hijab. You don't become the better person by forcing people to not wear something just because some, or most, are forced to wear something.

[Aggrophobic]

Well, at least she didn't slutplay the character like most women cosplayers seem to do.

Actually had to look that word up... "slutplay".

[gerlach1025]

Whether or not she chooses to wear a hijab or is forced to wear it still represents oppression to me. It amazes me how many steps backwards we are taking in the world and calling it social justice.

[Raelbo]

You're saying that children aren't weak minded? Do you consider them adults with fully functional brains able to tell the difference between right and wrong and whatnot?

No, I am not saying these things. Where did I say them? Why are asking such a silly question? (Don't answer, it's rhetorical. I am well aware you're trying to strawman me).

The adults of the religion weren't typically indoctrinated as adults. They got them when they were young and easy to mold.

I know of many religions which indoctinate adults. Secondly, the people typically who indoctrinate children into a religion are their parents.

But it's irrelevant anyway. Your attempt at generalising religions as nothing more than "indoctrination centers for children" still remains woefully asinine. Religions are complex things with many attributes, and attempting to reduce them all to one undesirable attribute that some of them display is somewhat disingenuous.

[Dezerte]

If she wants to wear the hijab, it's fine. If she has been forced to wear it, it's not fine.

It's not rocket surgery people.

[Cebel]

Only if she doesn't want to wear it. I suspect most Muslim women would actually choose to continue wearing their Hijabs even if there was nothing compelling them to do so. And yes, I do totally get that it isn't a choice for everyone, that some women are forced into compliance under threat of harm, but that doesn't mean this applies to everyone.

Honestly, watching the video I really get the sense that she is passionate about both her religion (which should be anyone's right) and her cosplay. What makes it notable is how she has found a way to combine those two things that many bigots would simply assume are incompatible.

Eh I disagree when your religion is still stuck thousands of years behind other religions and its ideals clearly conflict with the rest of the modern worlds society. But I'm prob a racist bigot asshole who thinks islam should be destroyed.


[Infracted]

[urasim]

This a broad generalisation that cannot be universally applied.

Never said it's "ALL" people. Clearly made an example that western Muslims don't practice the religion like those in the middle east. Religions are a set of beliefs and not everyone follows those beliefs to a t.

Of course not. But your attempt at trying to equate such a thing with all religions is called a strawman argument.

What religion doesn't have a concept of the afterlife? How's that a strawman? Saying something is X doesn't make it actually X because you said so.

Yes. But like I have already said, you cannot equate all religion with "the threat of violence and eternal torment". It's a strawman argument.

See above. Also, why didn't you just combine the quote and make a single sentence rebuttle? Seem like a waste of space and time.

There's a reason many more female Muslims in western civilization do wear the hijab and other such clothing. Because they see the value in exercising their freedom to do so even though weren't forced to wear them. It's funny what people do when they're presented with a choice.

The fact that western Muslim women are the only Muslim women who don't wear such things proves me right. Many wear it as a culture status symbol. Which I'm not opposed to. It's when they say shit like "the scripture tells me to do this". How can you NOT be against an oppressive ideology?

- - - Updated - - -

The main point I want to make is that nobody who is 'strongly influenced' ever seems to feel as if they've been influenced (or brainwashed). It seems to be part of the human self-identity that the self exists as it's own self-conscious being that owns everything it experienced instead of acknowledges it was molded by those experiences.

I don't particularly care whether muslim women had it beaten into them by force to wear the hijab, whether north-koreans had it drilled into them since childhood that their Marshall is the one who makes his nation the greatest place on the planet, or whether westerners have their political opinions influenced by fake news on social media. The main observation is that -none- of them will feel or admit to having been brainwashed.

You're confusing brainwashing with biases. People aren't being influenced by fake news. They're seeking out fake news to confirm their bias. People in north Korea are being legitimately brainwashed. They're having all information stripped from them and being told what is and what isn't real by the leaders. There's a vast difference there.

[Raelbo]

You do know why they're made to wear them right?

Yup. If you'd ever visited the middle east you'd understand the requirements to wear clothes that insulate you from the hot air. That's where their clothing styles originated.

Now, consider a culture in which all the women are constantly covering themselves and showing almost no skin. In such a society, showing a little skin can be very titillating. Introduce the religious element (with it's attempt at policing human sexuality) and suddenly you have a secondary, emergent reason for their attire.

Take away the religious motivation to wear the clothes and what you're left with is the original reason they were worn in the first place, which is still perfectly valid.

By all means, I agree 100% that women shouldn't be forced to wear this kind of attire for religious reasons, but that doesn't mean that they can't be worn for other reasons.

It's likely that if she stopped wearing it she'd be commiting a cultural faux pax and she'd be ostracised from the muslim community.

It's possible. Not sure that it's fair to say "likely".

[Noomz]

Kinda like your culture would do to me if I didn't wear a shirt in public? (am female)

Which culture is that? We have summer here too. Difference is that you won't hear calls for you being stoned around he- no wait, you might hear that if you live in the muslim areas.

[Total Crica]

Which culture is that? We have summer here too. Difference is that you won't hear calls for you being stoned around he- no wait, you might hear that if you live in the muslim areas.

Any female that walks around in public without a shirt on will be put in jail for indecent exposure in the USA. And I know of no culture, sans the indigenous peoples in the jungles (perhaps the outback too?), that would allow any of it's people to walk around without ANY clothes on in public without ANY repercussions from it's culture.

[urasim]

No, I am not saying these things. Where did I say them? Why are asking such a silly question? (Don't answer, it's rhetorical. I am well aware you're trying to strawman me).

I know of many religions which indoctinate adults. Secondly, the people typically who indoctrinate children into a religion are their parents.

But it's irrelevant anyway. Your attempt at generalising religions as nothing more than "indoctrination centers for children" still remains woefully asinine. Religions are complex things with many attributes, and attempting to reduce them all to one undesirable attribute that some of them display is somewhat disingenuous.

Dodge, dodge, dodge, and doesn't know what words mean. Look up "typically".

I can guarantee that most religious people were indoctrinated when they were children. Are you really saying that they weren't? Really?

Religions aren't nearly that complex once you've taken some evolutionary psychology classes.

[Pony Soldier]

I thought the Capt. America one actually looked cool but I don't see why this has to be a big deal. I just think making a big deal out of people wearing a certain article of clothing is just such a waste of time. Wear what you want to wear and ignore the haters. We don't have to be like "LOOK HOW INSPIRATIONAL SHE IS! SHE'S WEARING A HIJAB WITH COSTUMES THAT DON'T NORMALLY INCLUDE HIJABS! WOW, WHAT AN AWESOME HUMAN BEING!". She's just cosplaying, relax.

[Amerrol]

I really like these muslim cosplay things...

And Miss December was brutally stoned the next day.

[Noomz]

Just like people wearing clothes. We are forced to wear them because if we don't we would be committing a cultural faux pas and ostracized from the community (assuming it isn't a nudist colony to begin with). Does that mean everyone that is wearing clothes is forced to wear them? And that no one can choose to wear clothes because they want to?

Just because some, or most, or forced to do something does not mean that everyone is. Thinking like that is just as bad as those who oppress because you are being an oppressor. You are oppressing any Muslim woman who freely choose to wear a Hijab. You don't become the better person by forcing people to not wear something just because some, or most, are forced to wear something.

You do realize that you're trying to defend and justify the oppression of women?
It's as if you have no damned understanding of the origin or reasons for a hijab at all. Someone even compared it to a freaking t-shirt. Women are made to wear them, wether they want to or not, so that they don't tempt other men with their hair. In other places it's become the burqa, where they've deemed showing the body at all is too much.

Do you think African-Americans should've kept wearing their collars too or what? Should the Jews have kept their embroided stars after the camps?
It's a symbol of oppression in the name of religion, plain and simple. It has no other purpose. It has no other meaning. Someone who says they freely choose to wear one is lying or has come to see their oppression as something normal.

I'm not so gullible or naive to think that such things should be accepted nor tolerated. All cultures aren't created equal. Some customs and traditions shouldn't be perpetuated or we'd have no damned progress in this world at all.
But here you are, using tolerance and acceptance as an argument in favor of a tool of oppression against women because you think it's freedom. You're so open that you're prepared to accept and tolerate oppression right infront of you, simply because all things should just on their face be accepted.
With that same logic, shouldn't we just accept that women should stay in their homes and be housewives? That is, after all, how it was before and we all liked that right? Don't you see the absolute absurdity of what you're arguing for?

[Total Crica]

Women are made to wear them, wether they want to or not, so that they don't tempt other men with their hair.

Same reason females must wear shirts in the USA. Because female breasts will tempt males. So she will go to jail if she doesn't wear a shirt in public. Males can choose to not wear a shirt, however, and never go to jail for it.

[Raelbo]

What religion doesn't have a concept of the afterlife? How's that a strawman? Saying something is X doesn't make it actually X because you said so.

No it doesn't. It's a strawman because it fits the definition. You keep asking me leading questions, as if when I answer them, then I am conceding your original (different) point is true.

For example, you were defending your original assertion of "Religions are indoctrination centers for the weak minded" by questioning me with "Do you think constantly beating the threat of eternal torment into a child's mind is a positive thing or a negative thing?"

In effect you're trying to trick me into trying to either defending a ridiculous notion (the strawman), or making an admission that you would claim proves your initial point. That's exactly what a strawman argument is.

Face it, your initial comment was ill conceived and silly. I called you out on it. Trying to defend it in the manner you have isn't really helping.

See above. Also, why didn't you just combine the quote and make a single sentence rebuttle? Seem like a waste of space and time.

Maybe so, but completely irrelevant. Seems to me you're trying to deflect...

The fact that western Muslim women are the only Muslim women who don't wear such things proves me right.

No that's an error in logic. It would only prove you right if all western Muslim women, given the choice, chose to reject their religious attire. The fact that some western Muslim women choose to wear their religious actually proves you wrong because it clearly demonstrates that not all Muslim women wear their attire due to force. It is a logical conclusion that many in currently oppressed Muslim societies would continue to do so even without any form of coercion.

Many wear it as a culture status symbol. Which I'm not opposed to. It's when they say shit like "the scripture tells me to do this". How can you NOT be against an oppressive ideology?

Of course I am against oppressive ideology. But that doesn't mean I have to assume to that every women who wears a hijab is doing so under duress. And trying to equate the two is, again, a strawman fallacy.