Who are mythic plus dungeons for?

[Swiftshadow]

Want a few changes for M+:

1. Scaled gear. M+ is today almost only about how good gear you have and skill matter very little. If they scale the ilvl, less geared could join harder content and do well as long as they are skilled. Skill should always be more rewarded than having good gear.

idk about that. tanking above the current M+13 now sometimes feel harder than heroic raids.

My main issue with M+ is that time taken vs rewards given is not enough. For eg. if i take 1.5 hr to clear heroic tos now, i will almost certainly get at least a couple loot. But in that same 1.5hr, i could maybe clear 3 to 4 M+12 or M+13 and get no loot. of cos it could take shorter or longer depending on affix, but the consistency of loot imo is just not there for M+.

As of now, I just do 1 M+10 for the weekly chest and thats it.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I thought the idea was to have some content for people who don't want/can't raid.

Not sure where you got that from. Most raiders I know run M+ and vice versa. It's something fun and challenging to do on non-raid nights. I'm sure there are some players who only do one or the other, but most who do either do both.

Players who don't want/can't raid, in my experience, tend to avoid non-queuable content altogether, either from social anxiety, lack of confidence, or knowing their computer/internet connection can't handle it.

[Armakus]

idk about that. tanking above the current M+13 now sometimes feel harder than heroic raids.

My main issue with M+ is that time taken vs rewards given is not enough. For eg. if i take 1.5 hr to clear heroic tos now, i will almost certainly get at least a couple loot. But in that same 1.5hr, i could maybe clear 3 to 4 M+12 or M+13 and get no loot. of cos it could take shorter or longer depending on affix, but the consistency of loot imo is just not there for M+.

As of now, I just do 1 M+10 for the weekly chest and thats it.

I agree with this, for the most part, but you aren't including the fact that you are guaranteed a pretty sweet titanforged piece next week!

Edit: You did include that you get it, but I meant to say that that's where the "consistency" factor is. I agree, it's not worth doing multiple times per week. Just once for the chest.

[Felixon]

Mythic+ is one of the best implements in WoW PvE for years.I don't have time to raid with my guild,yet through it I can keep up with my guildies gear wise.Yes,the raids will always have a better gear (mostly because of the set bonuses),but the raiding as a whole takes much more time than running through a mythic+.

[Swiftshadow]

Mythic+ is one of the best implements in WoW PvE for years.I don't have time to raid with my guild,yet through it I can keep up with my guildies gear wise.Yes,the raids will always have a better gear (mostly because of the set bonuses),but the raiding as a whole takes much more time than running through a mythic+.

i think its a common misconception that raiding takes a long time commitment. in the past, that may be true.

However now there are quite alot of casual guilds nowadays. Some of them only raid 2hrs twice a week.

My group does that. 2hrs+, twice a week. Once that is done, half the time i don't even login unless there is a new reputation faction to farm.

Unless you are doing mythic raids, it is really quite do-able to be casual. heroic raids are in no way hard at all.

For eg. Heroic Kiljaden, all you have to do can be summarized as soak orange circles when you can, and not get knocked off the platform. if you cannot even do that, I can only say, please try to improve your contribution to the group, and not stand there tunneling ur dps, torturing your healers and expect loot to fall from the sky.

[Archibalde]

idk about that. tanking above the current M+13 now sometimes feel harder than heroic raids.

My main issue with M+ is that time taken vs rewards given is not enough. For eg. if i take 1.5 hr to clear heroic tos now, i will almost certainly get at least a couple loot. But in that same 1.5hr, i could maybe clear 3 to 4 M+12 or M+13 and get no loot. of cos it could take shorter or longer depending on affix, but the consistency of loot imo is just not there for M+.

As of now, I just do 1 M+10 for the weekly chest and thats it.

That's mostly bad luck. Loot in M+ is pretty consistent, I've found. It's 3 items for finishing it in time, and everything above a 10 right now has a stacking chance to have a 4th item. At least one person inevitably gets left out, but from experience it's extremely rare for that same person to walk out completely empty-handed when you do 3-4 dungeons in a row. Trading also helps, same as raids.

[Deleted]

They're for everyone.

[Lulbalance]

Some people don't like other games and/or are only decent at wow, it's for them.. similar to the way a laser pointer is 'for' a cat.

[avx81]

I love mythic+. Stopped doing raids until the next tier. The only thing I would hope that the would add some day is some kind of m+ dungeon set

[Noxina]

Are we talking about m+10 or m+20 here?

Mythic+ is for everyone who wants to do it, thats the beauty about having a million difficulty levels. Go as far as your group can go, and have fun doing so.

If you however want to push for rank 1 or w/e, you of course have to put in some few extra hours to get tier pieces etc. That's how it always have been with the harder content. Just as those pushing rank 1 in raiding have to do M+.

You can do either of them just perfectly fine without the other, but if you do both you get stronger. Not very complicated to understand.


Now should tier sets be disabled in m+? That's another question. I don't see a reason to why, but others might have different opinions there.

[Ealyssa]

My main issue with M+ is that time taken vs rewards given is not enough. For eg. if i take 1.5 hr to clear heroic tos now, i will almost certainly get at least a couple loot. But in that same 1.5hr, i could maybe clear 3 to 4 M+12 or M+13 and get no loot. of cos it could take shorter or longer depending on affix, but the consistency of loot imo is just not there for M+.

That's not even remotely true in the long run.

I raid mythic, clear 7/9 MM every week (yeah I know, nothing to be proud yada yada) + heroic and even NM when bored. Yet outside tier set and the 2 legendary I only have 1 piece of gear that comes from ToS, everything else is MM+ gear (neck, wrist, belt, boots, 2 rings and DHT Xavius tank trinket as a BrM). MM+ gear just give better itemisation and more chance to drop what you actually want (hello FUCKING desolate trinket who NEVER droped in my guilde no matter the raid difficulty).

That's one of the main reason people run MM+, it's obviously fun. But it also a massive lootfest, like wow has never seen before (at least one mythic level piece of gear for anyone who wants, that's insane compared to previous expansion).

[caervek]

Don't really like M+ tbh, much prefered the old style where you just completed a heroic dungeon and got a currency for it you could save to buy items (or upgrade existing items) that were of use to you. Rather than waste you time getting a piece of junk from a chest.

[Swiftshadow]

That's not even remotely true in the long run.

I raid mythic, clear 7/9 MM every week (yeah I know, nothing to be proud yada yada) + heroic and even NM when bored. Yet outside tier set and the 2 legendary I only have 1 piece of gear that comes from ToS, everything else is MM+ gear (neck, wrist, belt, boots, 2 rings and DHT Xavius tank trinket as a BrM). MM+ gear just give better itemisation and more chance to drop what you actually want (hello FUCKING desolate trinket who NEVER droped in my guilde no matter the raid difficulty).

That's one of the main reason people run MM+, it's obviously fun. But it also a massive lootfest, like wow has never seen before (at least one mythic level piece of gear for anyone who wants, that's insane compared to previous expansion).

i understand. but people are sometimes extremely unlucky like me. I feel very bitter about time wasted when after running 3 mythic+ dungeons i get no loot. and no im not talking about loot i dont want. im talking about ZERO loot. At least throughout 1 entire raid, I will get at least ONE loot if not 2. Maybe I'm greedy in this way, but I don't think it's too much to ask to see a tangible reward for time spent in a game that we are literally paying just to play. I'm not asking for loot that I want to wear, I just feel better even if it's loot i can freaking VENDOR away.

Don't really like M+ tbh, much prefered the old style where you just completed a heroic dungeon and got a currency for it you could save to buy items (or upgrade existing items) that were of use to you. Rather than waste you time getting a piece of junk from a chest.

THIS. I have no idea why Blizz removed this long-running feature that was working well imo. At least currency for loot allows me to be able to save up for something I want. It may take a longer time, but at least I KNOW that I will EVENTUALLY get it.

At least Blizz did something right introducing Artifact weapons; 1 less important slot for us to be competing against each other.

[TheVaryag]

I thought the idea was to have some content for people who don't want/can't raid.
But it kinda seems like you can't do that well without the tier set bonuses and maybe the odd raid trinket. (why do set bonuses even work in M+?).
And for raiders, they are also an incredible source of upgrades, especially at this point, so if you only want to raid you lose a lot on potential upgrades.

So raiding is a huge help for M+.
M+ is a huge help for raiding.

Before Legion started i thought they'd be a nice source of gear before you start raiding but even after they nerfed them they're so rewarding still O_O

Tryhard elitists who think they're better than Mythic Raiders, but don't want to put In as much effort being social or learning tactics, beyond pressing W and spamming AoE healing/damage Mythic + Is not hard with the right gear that you're given left right and center.

Or more rarely, old raiders who want good gear but also can't or don't want to socialize or learn tactics, to which I ask why were you raiding In the first place.

And lastly people who like to speedrun dungeons on a timer as If that's an amazing thing to do, dungeons can be cheesed and ran through easily, that's no challenge.

Because today the challenge Is to run through a dungeon very quickly like a marathon runner, rather then figuring out a tactic with your freshly made group that's never been here, exploring the dungeon to find hidden treasures (Which Is the only good addition of Legion dungeons, now If only those rewards wasn't just MORE USELESS ARTIFACT POWER and a lost toenail clipper of the satyr), figuring how to pull mobs one pack at a time, and not just pull half the room no problems at all while spamming AoE which seems to solve everything these days, MORE AOE. How about no, how about more skill based single-targeting abilities that do a specific task, rather then make abilities like remorsless cold that does EVERYTHING IN ONE... damage aoe, slow down and snare and whatever other thing It does.

And also based on your composition, how to use CCs, which ones and on who, who to target down quickly as the main threat and so on and so on... so many things old dungeons did good and they just abandoned It.

To give you a much longer answer: They're catoring to casuals who want everything for free and on a silver platter and then be patted on the back for taking the effort to sit still and get the reward, rather then working on their rewards, dammit I never got an epic until I went through a dungeon, you kids these days and your free epics dropping from "Rares" who are rare only In the sense that they rarely give you enjoyment

[Eurhetemec]

They are:

1) Good source of high iLvl gear for those that can't commit to Mythic raiding, but still want to do something challenging.

2) Content that you can repeat and get rewarded for always.

3) Something to do on off-raid days with your guild.

I will be very sad if they decide to scrap M+ for next expansion. It's a fantastic system to give incentive to do dungeon content.

Given the invitationals, they've got a better chance of scrapping raiding the next expansion than M+.

I do think they need to consider the impact of raid-gained gear on them a bit more but they're a great idea on a number of levels and I'm confident Blizzard sees them as one of the success stories of Legion.

I still think M+ should have had a dungeon set that was tuned to be great for M+ and not as great for raids. The goals are different enough that it should have been very possible.

Yep that would be a very good idea for M+ going forwards.

[Icechaosss]

Honestly, it's for everyone (like people have said in this thread).

I'm a college student and after all day of studying and dealing with stupid college teammates who don't do their fair share of the damn group project (Salt), I like to play WoW to relax, but I do like somewhat challenging content. Raiding is a no-no since classes for me are from 6-9 on some days, and on weekends I spend time with the gf. So M+ gives me a reason to keep playing and enjoying myself, and also a means to gear without the valor grind of say, Cata. In fact my MW is 927 as of today from M+ and a normal ToS I pugged (Literally just one run) and it feels pretty good, and somewhat earned

[Eurhetemec]

I mean you could have had dungeon sets that e.g.:
Rewarded dps using CC
Buffed Tank and Healer Damage
Gave damage dealers additional survivability

Yeah I was just talking to my wife about what could help in M+ dungeons and not in raids and we were coming up with a similar list. Could work out really well without screwing up raiding.

[barackohmama]

It's for everyone. Keeps dungeons relevant and adds a good source of loot to both raiders and non raiders.

[caervek]

I still think M+ should have had a dungeon set that was tuned to be great for M+ and not as great for raids. The goals are different enough that it should have been very possible.

Just like Vanilla dungeons, I like it

[Deleted]

I thought the idea was to have some content for people who don't want/can't raid.
But it kinda seems like you can't do that well without the tier set bonuses and maybe the odd raid trinket. (why do set bonuses even work in M+?).
And for raiders, they are also an incredible source of upgrades, especially at this point, so if you only want to raid you lose a lot on potential upgrades.

So raiding is a huge help for M+.
M+ is a huge help for raiding.

Before Legion started i thought they'd be a nice source of gear before you start raiding but even after they nerfed them they're so rewarding still O_O

It's for everyone who can play their class just a decent bit.
High M+ isn't for everyone just as Mythic raiding isn't for everyone.

Yes, it gives even mythic raiders the opportunities for upgrades, but so what?
You don't have to raid to do M+.
You don't have to do M+ to raid.