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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurytos View Post
    I really thought that the talent in WoD that encouraged a form of seal swapping was the ideal way to handle seals. It was a decent talent for a time iirc, and those who enjoyed it had access. If you didnt like seal swapping rotational playstyle, then you didnt take the talent. Very easy. But even if you didnt take that talent, you still had the option of an aoe seal or a single target seal, for aoe heavy situations, a quick swap was awesome, and then a quick swap back. Not the true seal swapping rotation of old, but still useful and interactive. I mean, isn't Zeal a shittier form of Seal of Righteousness now?
    The real problem is that right now, there's not as many meaningful gameplay decisions made during encounters. Before, when you made talent decisions, it was to enhance a particular aspect of your play during an encounter. Now, talent decisions are majorly-influenced by your "DPS mode." Divine Hammer/Fires of Justice or Zeal/Blade of Wrath. In pruning, they took away Ret's versatility during encounters.

  2. #102
    Ill give you some 8.0 tuning spoilers

    Its going to be subpar just like the last 7 expansions with minimal to no changes.

  3. #103
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Ill give you some 8.0 tuning spoilers

    Its going to be subpar just like the last 7 expansions with minimal to no changes.
    Are you saying Greater Blessings are gone? We only have CS and TV with Wings on a 8 min cd?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Bambs View Post
    Are you saying Greater Blessings are gone? We only have CS and TV with Wings on a 8 min cd?
    Confirmed ret noob

  5. #105
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Confirmed ret noob
    That I am.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Bambs View Post
    That I am.
    Have you noticed the paragraphs for each class and paladins are lucky to get a single line.

    Welcome to the last 13 years

  7. #107
    Paladins all around this xpac felt clunky. I never liked ret (holy main) because the rotation felt too roguey being dependant on holy power. Felt really weak at times, and slow (only saving grace was divine steed). Holy also felt like garbage when they removed eternal flame.

  8. #108
    Herald of the Titans
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    I haven't Mained Ret since early Cata. Can't really pinpoint what, but the spec just lost something to me and I moved on. He was my first character and would love to main him again, especially now that Turalyon is back. (One of my favorite lore characters and why I rolled pally to begin with)

  9. #109
    I've enjoyed ret for the most part.

    Well, going in to next xpac:
    The biggest thing I want to stick around is wake of ashes. I don't think it will since the idea is that it's the Ashbringer that does that cool move. But for all the issues we've had the addition of wake of ashes has been a welcome one.
    Additionally: tossing divines storm forward, bop not stopping melee dps, greater blessing of wisdom has actually turned out to be well liked by healers and kind of nice to provide (progression raiding anyway),

    Every time people talk about the spec being clunky I usually assume they never really geared up much as haste does wonders to the feel of the spec.

    But, failures:
    Final Verdict: yawn, just take it
    Execution Sentence: too awkward for little gain, give me old Exo back please
    Consecration: not strong enough to be work it, give me lights hammer back, it looked better.
    Fires of Justice: solid talent
    Zeal: Solid Taltent, but the fact that we use then backwards to their design (single target, multi target) is strange.
    Greater Judgement. lame
    Level 45, fine enough I guess.
    Virtures blade: garbage
    Blade of wrather: solid talent
    Divine Hammer: solid talent
    Justicar's vengence: good for world contact I guess.
    Eye for an Eye: total weak sauce
    Word of glory: new aoe design is really lame, can we just get selfless healer back?
    Divine Intervention: very useful
    Cavalier: 2 charges but no cooldown reduction? very weak.
    Judgement of light: pointless
    Divine Purpose: god bless soul of the highlord, i love it this and wish it were baseline.
    Crusade: this is not a choice for PVE, but this issues is well known to blizzard.
    Holy Wrath: total trash.

    So out of 21 talents I think I can argue that maybe 7 are good talents and the rest are either just auto picks or auto avoids.

    Finally: please bring back hammer of wrath

  10. #110
    This was my first time playing something other than my resto druid. My hubby and I decided to switch things up when we came back for Legion. I picked a pally with the intent of going holy, but we never needed heals so I ended up switching to ret.

    It was HORRIBLE until I got WOA generating 5HP in my artifact and then once I got my haste to around 22% it started to be a lot more fun. I've really enjoyed ret this xpac, my only real complaint would be our mobility sucks. I seriously never have enjoyed melee classes in any game so this was a first for me

  11. #111
    I really do miss old Final Verdict though, such a good talent, so fun.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Anida View Post
    my only real complaint would be our mobility sucks
    I'd like -Falling Sword- for my Ret,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjO5izn91d4
    With a longer cd than in the video, no need to get op mobility. Someone might say it's like warrior leap, to which I will respond that steals are not new, warriors stole us Charge in vanilla beta already. Make it with a different cd than leap, and here we go.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleax View Post
    I'd like -Falling Sword- for my Ret,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjO5izn91d4
    With a longer cd than in the video, no need to get op mobility. Someone might say it's like warrior leap, to which I will respond that steals are not new, warriors stole us Charge in vanilla beta already. Make it with a different cd than leap, and here we go.
    yeah, I'm not saying I need to be a demon hunter or anything Just some better mobility than our charger

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Anida View Post
    yeah, I'm not saying I need to be a demon hunter or anything Just some better mobility than our charger
    Retribution would require copious amounts of massive mobility buffs to get at least near dh-levels of mobility.
    The field for improvement is vast and almost endless.
    Care to guess why aren't bzzd doing a thing about Ret mobility, though?

  15. #115
    Herald of the Titans Eurytos's Avatar
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    Here is my first draft of what my ideal paladin talent tree would look like.

    Row 1 - Big CD (avenging wrath baseline)
    Crusade(haste and dmg increase) - Seraphim(all secondaries increased) - Guardian of the Ancient Kings(strength increased)
    (crusades gonna have to be balanced, since regular avenging wrath will exist with Sera and GotAK, fix the numbers to make it work)

    Row 2 - Seal Play (baseline Seal of Truth with a censure dot is single target, Seal of Righteousness is cleave)
    Empowered Seals - Increased Censure dmg - AoE Cleave talent
    (ES gives an Attack Power buff under SoT, and Attack Speed under SoR, just like in WoD - Censure dmg increase, and Censure increased if only on 1 target - Heavy Cleave buff for add heavy fights)

    Row 3 - Dmg/Heal ability (no Holy Power cost here)
    Hammer of Light - Execution Sentence - Holy Prism
    (AoE heal and dmg - longer CD burst heal OR dmg - shorter CD less burst heal and dmg)

    Row 4- Mobility (baseline 1 charge Divine Steed, and Turalyons Leap)
    2 Charge Steed and benefits from Hand of Freedom - 2 Leaps and increased distance - Unstoppable while under Wings, Wings duration reduced, CD reduced
    (Idk what I'm doing here, but I dont think any of these things are insane, especially compared to rogues, DHs, warriors...we should ask for everything fun as far as I'm concerned)

    Row 5 - Holy Power(Divine Purpose is baseline)
    Gain 1 HP every 10sec(?) passively in combat - Wake of Ashes(no dot, just 5HP generation) - Finishers cost 5 HP do more dmg
    (certainly different playstyles here, balance between talents is obviously key)

    Row 6 - Hammer of Wrath (baseline HoW is an execute only, < 20% hp, hits harder than anything but TV, crits x2.5, generates HP)
    HoW useable at 50% no HP generation - HoW useable under Wings, shorter cd - HoW always useable, dmg reduced

    Row 7 - I'm just making shit up now
    Crusader talent(Shield and 2h dps) - Shield of Vengeance (double shield dps) - Retributions Might (normal Ret play style, crit x3, all dmg heals raid for something more than negligible)


    This is all meaningless, I know, but its ideas that I came up with in about an hour, and having played ret for 10 years.
    Ret could be so much fun again, cool spells, cool talents, cool playstyles. Other than that last row of talents, all of this has existed before...just gotta make it fit.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytoz/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    It's simply bad design if a class is only doing dps if you hit the uber fucking cd and still be middle of the pack (in the best case).
    Middle of the pack is the design goal.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Retribution would require copious amounts of massive mobility buffs to get at least near dh-levels of mobility.
    The field for improvement is vast and almost endless.
    Care to guess why aren't bzzd doing a thing about Ret mobility, though?
    Probably because everyone else complains about us having bubble.. idk really I hate slowing down mythic groups because I'm just jogging compared to everyone else.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Avenging Wrath View Post
    in what alternative reality do u smoke?

    bzzd nerfed crusade 7.1 cuz DP is underperforming...
    bzzd nerfed WotA relics 7.3

    bzzd stated 7.1 that they dont like Crusade at all and want ret to get away from crusade.
    And then promptly designed the entire spec to be totally dependent on it.... yeah, that sounds like Blizzard design....

  19. #119
    Guys... Blizz doesn't care about ret. They do the minimun effort to make it "viable" (aka mediocre, even, bottom dps), with discarded ideas from war, rogue, even priest, and when they achieve this, move to complete the design of another class/spec.
    They even told you about it: it is an alt class (A SUPPORT THEN A DPS), to spend your time if you are bored of your main. And you need to change to DK at lvl 55.
    What will 8.0 bring to ret? Nothing, more clunky mechanics, longs and mediocre CD, ultra-slow walk with a middle of the pack dps chart.
    Last edited by rubenmsalles; 2017-09-28 at 06:08 PM.
    Hammer of salt
    Taking away seals, utility blessings and auras is like taking away totems from shamans, or stealth from rogues

  20. #120
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Anida View Post
    Probably because everyone else complains about us having bubble.. idk really I hate slowing down mythic groups because I'm just jogging compared to everyone else.
    Tbf thats the only thing i worked around : 2 sets one for crusade usage and one for crusade downtime. Yeap that involves sephuz and aggramar's and 42% base haste. (and if by chance u miss changing the sets and u get with aggramars and sephuz and crusade on some random pull then u simply hilarious running around moving faster than the speed of light)

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