Vegetarian cheese, the most hypocritical product there is

[Egomaniac]

As far as I know, the default has always been, no meat and fish. Eggs and milk are fine.

What you know is wrong.

There are different classes of Vegetarians. A Vegan is a classification of Vegetarian.

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I thought being vegetarian is about being against animal "cruelty". But I guess I am wrong.

Certainly, there are some vegetarians that would take a hard line about the points you bring up...but it does not apply universally to all vegetarians.

[DSRilk]

I thought being vegetarian is about being against animal "cruelty". But I guess I am wrong.

It differs for each person. My next door neighbor and I are both vegetarians. For me, cruelty is part of it, but it's more complex than that. It's animal treatment as a whole. For my neighbor, however, it's just about health. People have different reasons for things, and different lines regarding what they are and are not okay with.

[MCMLXXXII]

Where does Kraft get their milk from anyway?
Sorry to ask, but we only know them here for their sorry excuse they call cheddar.

[DSRilk]

What you know is wrong.

There are different classes of Vegetarians. A Vegan is a classification of Vegetarian.

I think you're being pedantic. At least where I live, vegetarians are generally assumed to be okay with eggs and dairy where as vegans are not. This is true among the vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores I know.

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Where does Kraft get their milk from anyway?

I didn't say Kraft wasn't getting their stuff from factory farms. I was saying that it doesn't contain animal rennet. Again, different people have different lines. For me, I generally buy cheeses from (optimally local) organic farms that have a decent record of animal treatment. Most of the vegetarians I know do similarly, but it doesn't mean all do. Some are willing to live with supporting factory farming to an extent. Others are not. Doesn't make them hypocrites. It makes them different.

[Egomaniac]

I think you're being pedantic. At least where I live, vegetarians are generally assumed to be okay with eggs and dairy where as vegans are not. This is true among the vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores I know.

Saying "All Vegetarians eat Dairy and Eggs" is an over-generalization. Many do...but not all. Some will eat both, some will eat one but not the other, and some will eat neither.

[MCMLXXXII]

Again I'm not bashing vegans or vegetarians. I am an ominvore. But I am trying to get my food from sources I trust. Meat from the butcher I trust. Vegetables from a store I trust. Supermarket for all the adds.

[DSRilk]

Saying "All Vegetarians eat Dairy and Eggs" is an over-generalization. Many do...but not all. Some will eat both...some will eat one but not the other, and some will eat neither.

Never said "all ... eat dairy and eggs." I said "[they] are generally ASSUMED to be okay with." I don't think that's an over generalization. I think that's a reasonable generalization. Not all omnivores eat eggs. Not all of them drink milk for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean it's an invalid generalization to assume they do unless told otherwise.

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Again I'm not bashing vegans or vegetarians. I am an ominvore. But I am trying to get my food from sources I trust. Meat from the butcher I trust. Vegetables from a store I trust. Supermarket for all the adds.

Let me quote from your original op... "Long story short: eat cheese and enjoy some veal from time to time like a normal human being. Or go full vegan and don't even touch cheese. But vegetarian cheese is for hypocrites."

I'm sorry, but that is all about bashing them. I am a vegetarian. I have no issue with you choosing to eat meat. I think it's great that you try to do so more ethically than some. But let's be real. Your op was all about bashing people who are different than you.

[Egomaniac]

Never said "all ... eat dairy and eggs." I said "[they] are generally ASSUMED to be okay with." I don't think that's an over generalization. I think that's a reasonable generalization. Not all omnivores eat eggs. Not all of them drink milk for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean it's an invalid generalization to assume they do unless told otherwise.

I wonder if you even read the post that i was originally responding to.

[MCMLXXXII]

Never said "all ... eat dairy and eggs." I said "[they] are generally ASSUMED to be okay with." I don't think that's an over generalization. I think that's a reasonable generalization. Not all omnivores eat eggs. Not all of them drink milk for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean it's an invalid generalization to assume they do unless told otherwise.

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Let me quote from your original op... "Long story short: eat cheese and enjoy some veal from time to time like a normal human being. Or go full vegan and don't even touch cheese. But vegetarian cheese is for hypocrites."

I'm sorry, but that is all about bashing them. I am a vegetarian. I have no issue with you choosing to eat meat. I think it's great that you try to do so more ethically than some. But let's be real. Your op was all about bashing people who are different than you.

If you feel so then sorry. It might be me not expressing myself enough due to my lack of knowledge of the English language. Apparently you are an exception of people i tried to reach.

[DSRilk]

I wonder if you even read the post that i was originally responding to.

I did. Just seemed like you were arguing word choice more than anything else (in the section where you were arguing about the definition of vegetarianism). Perhaps I misunderstood.

[Egomaniac]

I did. Just seemed like you were arguing word choice more than anything else (in the section where you were arguing about the definition of vegetarianism). Perhaps I misunderstood.

Well, he was directly saying that "All Vegetarians Eat Dairy and Cheese". That was the over-generalization I was referring to.

[DSRilk]

If you feel so then sorry. It might be me not expressing myself enough due to my lack of knowledge of the English language. Apparently you are an exception of people i tried to reach.

In English, telling someone that they are a hypocrite and abnormal is bashing. I'm not sure what else you could call it. If you were actually trying to inform, it would have sounded more like, "BTW, for vegetarians out there, if you didn't know, some cheese has an animal byproduct called rennet in it. You may want to check packaging before buying." You know, something that's informative without being aggressive and that doesn't involve name calling.

I took you for a pretty intelligent fellow, so I assumed you did the name calling on purpose and knew exactly what you were saying and how it would come across. Perhaps, however, there's a massive disconnect between the way Dutch and English work. Your English is certainly far better than my Dutch.

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Well, he was directly saying that "All Vegetarians Eat Dairy and Cheese". That was the over-generalization I was referring to.

He was saying that in the context of general definitions of vegetarianism and veganism. Taking literally or without context, I understand your point. We can agree to disagree about whether or not that's a valid generalization in context.

[Jademist]

I just don't understand why this has to bother someone... It is not compulsory and it doesn't harm you. So what if a vegetarian wants to eat vegetarian cheese?

[Swalload]

So the 70% of the calves born, just so the cows can produce milk, which have no further use, are collateral damage?

I will answer your question with a quote from your own OP:

Only 30% of those calves are used to become a new generation of milking cows. The rest will end up in the slaughterhouse where they will also be used for the rennet which resides in their stomachs.

They are not collateral damage, we eat them.

Also, EXTREMELY important point to make here. Vegetarians don't care about animal cruelty, you're confusing this with Vegans.

Vegetarians don't like meat, the taste of it, but they don't necessarily do that to save animals. Most vegetarians will drink milk and eat cheese as it contains no meat.
Vegans don't eat product that come from animals because it makes them feel guilty about it, they basically think it's animal cruelty, they don't necessarily hate the taste of meat or other animal products like cheese or milk.

Vegetarian and veganism are 2 pretty different things.

[DSRilk]

Vegetarian/Vegan threads always make me laugh with how uneducated people are on the subject yet think they know their shit. Well, like most subjects then, really.

How so? /10char

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I will answer your question with a quote from your own OP:


They are not collateral damage, we eat them.

Also, EXTREMELY important point to make here. Vegetarians don't care about animal cruelty, you're confusing this with Vegans.

Vegetarians don't like meat, the taste of it, but they don't necessarily do that to save animals. Most vegetarians will drink milk and eat cheese as it contains no meat.
Vegans don't eat product that come from animals because it makes them feel guilty about it, they basically think it's animal cruelty, they don't necessarily hate the taste of meat or other animal products like cheese or milk.

Vegetarian and veganism are 2 pretty different things.

What? Vegetarians don't like meat and don't care about animal cruelty? I've seriously never heard that before. As someone who considers himself a vegetarian, and does not eat meat or animal byproducts that are obtained through the death or torture of an animal, I have to disagree with your definition. I eat ("animal friendly") eggs, cheese, and milk. I love the taste of (some) meat, but don't eat it for ethical reasons. I've heard of people who are vegetarians for health reasons, but not because they don't like meat. That's a new one for me.

[Heeka]

Terminologically speaking, I'm confused. What do you mean by vegetarian cheese?

There are vegetarians that still feel comfortable eating cheese because it doesn't directly kill an animal - is that who you're complaining about? If so, why are you calling it vegetarian cheese? They're still eating typical cheese, perhaps hypocritically.

If you're talking about cheese that is non-dairy (which is what I've eaten all my life - allergic to milk, so I have no pick), then there's no issue whatsoever. That is entirely plant-based. The only possible hypocrisy is that these people still like eating something that (very disputably) tastes like cheese, which seems really petty.

If there is a "vegetarian" cheese that is somehow not normal cheese but also not plant based, then I'm not familiar with it, but I would expect that these vegetarians are not familiar with what's actually involved in the production process (as most consumers are not familiar with food production), and have simply been tricked by branding. Hypocrisy sounds like too strong an accusation - gullibility seems more appropriate, and does not assign malice quite as strongly to the group.

So, which is it?

[Xandrigity]

Terminologically speaking, I'm confused. What do you mean by vegetarian cheese?

There are vegetarians that still feel comfortable eating cheese because it doesn't directly kill an animal - is that who you're complaining about? If so, why are you calling it vegetarian cheese? They're still eating typical cheese, perhaps hypocritically.

If you're talking about cheese that is non-dairy (which is what I've eaten all my life - allergic to milk, so I have no pick), then there's no issue whatsoever. That is entirely plant-based. The only possible hypocrisy is that these people still like eating something that (very disputably) tastes like cheese, which seems really petty.

If there is a "vegetarian" cheese that is somehow not normal cheese but also not plant based, then I'm not familiar with it, but I would expect that these vegetarians are not familiar with what's actually involved in the production process (as most consumers are not familiar with food production), and have simply been tricked by branding. Hypocrisy sounds like too strong an accusation - gullibility seems more appropriate, and does not assign malice quite as strongly to the group.

So, which is it?

Vegetarian cheese is not cultured with rennet, which is a enzyme harvested from calves.
http://cheese.joyousliving.com/CheeseListBrand.aspx

[Swalload]

How so? /10char

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What? Vegetarians don't like meat and don't care about animal cruelty? I've seriously never heard that before. As someone who considers himself a vegetarian, and does not eat meat or animal byproducts that are obtained through the death or torture of an animal, I have to disagree with your definition. I eat ("animal friendly") eggs, cheese, and milk. I love the taste of (some) meat, but don't eat it for ethical reasons. I've heard of people who are vegetarians for health reasons, but not because they don't like meat. That's a new one for me.

Add "or health reasons" to what I said, you still know what I meant. It's not the same concept as veganism, which has nothing to do with the consuming of meat or animal product but everything to do with the process of how it is obtained.

Also when I say "they don't care" about animal cruelty is not to say they would sit and watch a dog getting kicked to death. I'm saying it's not the motivation behind their choice of becoming vegetarians but they most likely would care a minimum about animal cruelty, like anyone does even meat eaters.

[Swalload]

So, in short, you don't know what you're talking about. Cool.

Other way around, you don't, I do, learn from me, stop making stupid post to just make one useless statement and fucking explain it if you think you know half of your shit.

Vegetarian/Vegan threads always make me laugh with how uneducated people are on the subject yet think they know their shit. Well, like most subjects then, really.

Like this, why are you even here? Your presence is useless. Explain if you know so much, teach us.

[mageling]

Not really. Raising an animal for the purpose of slaughtering it falls into the "poor treatment" category for me. As does factory-farming of eggs and milk. It's not about consumption of the product (hence why I and others would be okay with lab-produced meat), it's about how it ends up on your plate.

So you'd be okay eating bits and pieces of a milk cow from a local free range farm that happened to die due to an accident or something similar? Then it wouldn't have been born and raised for the butchers block thus allowing you to eat it guilt free. Or am I missing something?