Poll: Where should the spending have gone?

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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    You want to have a money talk? That's stupid, pointless and again, irresponsible. Policy comes first. Money just enables the execution of the policy.
    When you don't want to derail a thread, but there's so much "funny how on healthcare, you say exactly the opposite" nnngghhhh.....

    But on topic, as for college, you could make college free just by taking a hard look at those colleges and how they spend their money. Nearly all public universities are structured like businesses, pulling in millions of dollars from research grants, donations, sports (dear lord they do, from sports), and other pursuits, and a massive amount of that money goes to pay the non-teaching side of the universities. For example Georgia school presidents make in the millions of dollars, certain sports staff members make millions - teachers, of course, make considerably less, and staff often make near minimum wage, and anuual raises are often frozen (while the president and friends continue to get bi-annual multi-digit pay bumps).

    But if you balanced the non-academic side to be proportional to the academics, you could pay for every student at those schools. No military spending cuts required.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    When you don't want to derail a thread, but there's so much "funny how on healthcare, you say exactly the opposite" nnngghhhh.....

    But on topic, as for college, you could make college free just by taking a hard look at those colleges and how they spend their money. Nearly all public universities are structured like businesses, pulling in millions of dollars from research grants, donations, sports (dear lord they do, from sports), and other pursuits, and a massive amount of that money goes to pay the non-teaching side of the universities. For example Georgia school presidents make in the millions of dollars, certain sports staff members make millions - teachers, of course, make considerably less, and staff often make near minimum wage, and anuual raises are often frozen (while the president and friends continue to get bi-annual multi-digit pay bumps).

    But if you balanced the non-academic side to be proportional to the academics, you could pay for every student at those schools. No military spending cuts required.
    But then you'd have Big Education raising hell over how you were trampling their rights.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    the proof you seek is your rank inability to demonstrate even a passing knowledge of the military's mission, how its accomplished, its cost in manpower, equipment and time.
    Rubbish. If the U.S. needs a military 10 times the Russia to defend themselves then the Military needs fixing not throwing billions more at it.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    When you don't want to derail a thread, but there's so much "funny how on healthcare, you say exactly the opposite" nnngghhhh.....

    But on topic, as for college, you could make college free just by taking a hard look at those colleges and how they spend their money. Nearly all public universities are structured like businesses, pulling in millions of dollars from research grants, donations, sports (dear lord they do, from sports), and other pursuits, and a massive amount of that money goes to pay the non-teaching side of the universities. For example Georgia school presidents make in the millions of dollars, certain sports staff members make millions - teachers, of course, make considerably less, and staff often make near minimum wage, and anuual raises are often frozen (while the president and friends continue to get bi-annual multi-digit pay bumps).

    But if you balanced the non-academic side to be proportional to the academics, you could pay for every student at those schools. No military spending cuts required.
    Sports activities generates far more guaranteed revenue for the school than the college alumni patronage system it supplanted ever did. Which makes the infrastructure investment in college sports well worth the money. Likewise, grant money produces (or is at least capable of producing) usable research. Teaching does none of those things and the only reason it's done is because kids might go onto post-grad and doctoral work if they're taught stuff in undergrad.

    The reason I point all this out, in case it was lost on you: More people going to college means colleges need to find more ways to expand which means they need large, consistent cash infusions. I have no doubt that these systems are abused to some extent or another, but even in the absence of abuse the college system would look very much like this one because most colleges don't have multi-million dollar endowments to plop a new department wing and adjoining student housing where ever it wants.
    Last edited by Nadiru; 2017-09-29 at 02:40 AM.

  5. #65
    If someone can point me to a source that shows schools make money off sports, I'd love to see it, because pretty much every source I've ever seen on the subject shows the exact opposite.

    For example, http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...profit-sports/.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Rubbish. If the U.S. needs a military 10 times the Russia to defend themselves then the Military needs fixing not throwing billions more at it.
    Lets try this... Where is the US military currently assigned, what are they assigned to do, what resources (personnel, equipment, and logistics) do they need to complete those assignments, then after you answer those questions, you get to tell us how long the acquisition of those resources take and how much it costs to obtain them)... Show us your vast knowledge.

    If you want me or anyone else to believe you know what you are talking about you'll have to prove it... the above is just the preliminary quiz to let us know if you are the real deal or full of shit.

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    No it's not. We need to downsize the military.
    Unlike Canada, the US does not have a vastly more powerful ally to save our butt if something goes wrong in the world.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Proof? I disagree with you.
    That in itself is proof....

    But seriously, you have shown zero understanding of pretty much anything concerning international affairs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Rubbish. If the U.S. needs a military 10 times the Russia to defend themselves then the Military needs fixing not throwing billions more at it.
    Well, for one thing, the US prefers to spend money to save lives while Russia historically prefers to spend lives to save money.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    Sports activities generates far more guaranteed revenue for the school than the college alumni patronage system it supplanted ever did. Which makes the infrastructure investment in college sports well worth the money. Likewise, grant money produces (or is at least capable of producing) usable research. Teaching does none of those things and the only reason it's done is because kids might go onto post-grad and doctoral work if they're taught stuff in undergrad.

    The reason I point all this out, in case it was lost on you: More people going to college means colleges need to find more ways to expand which means they need large, consistent cash infusions. I have no doubt that these systems are abused to some extent or another, but even in the absence of abuse the college system would look very much like this one because most colleges don't have multi-million dollar endowments to plop a new department wing and adjoining student housing where ever it wants.
    Football is pretty much the only sport that pays for itself.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Unlike Canada, the US does not have a vastly more powerful ally to save our butt if something goes wrong in the world.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That in itself is proof....

    But seriously, you have shown zero understanding of pretty much anything concerning international affairs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well, for one thing, the US prefers to spend money to save lives while Russia historically prefers to spend lives to save money.....

    - - - Updated - - -



    Football is pretty much the only sport that pays for itself.
    Where's the proof? Insults mean nothing.

    The U.S. is better looking after its citizens instead of spending 700 billion on the military.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Well, for one thing, the US prefers to spend money to save lives while Russia historically prefers to spend lives to save money.....
    And Canada prefers to outsource their defense and hide behind the US.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Where's the proof? Insults mean nothing.

    The U.S. is better looking after its citizens instead of spending 700 billion on the military.
    We are still waiting for YOUR proof that you know what you are talking about.

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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Where's the proof? Insults mean nothing.

    The U.S. is better looking after its citizens instead of spending 700 billion on the military.
    Name 4 mutual defense treaties the US is part of, without looking them up. You have 2 minutes.

    The US does look after its citizens. The US spends more on education as a percentage of GDP than Canada does.


    Times up. You failed a very simple question. I have now demonstrated you do not have an understanding of the matter at hand, now it is your turn to prove you do.
    Last edited by Kellhound; 2017-09-29 at 03:19 AM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Name 4 mutual defense treaties the US is part of, without looking them up. You have 2 minutes.

    The US does look after its citizens. The US spends more on education as a percentage of GDP than Canada does.


    Times up. You failed a very simple question. I have now demonstrated you do not have an understanding of the matter at hand, now it is your turn to prove you do.
    Please prove how Americans are better off with a large military instead of improved healthcare and education.

    I'm waiting.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Football is pretty much the only sport that pays for itself.
    It pays reliably more than you put in, which is useful if you're, say, an institution needing to pay regular bills.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Please prove how Americans are better off with a large military instead of improved healthcare and education.

    I'm waiting.
    The challenge was to prove or disprove that you were competent enough in the subject to carry on a conversation. I showed you are not, and you have shown nothing to say you are.

    And again, the US government spends more on education than Canada, and more on health care as well.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Please prove how Americans are better off with a large military instead of improved healthcare and education.

    I'm waiting.
    stop the dodging, bobbing and weaving... Answer the questions that have been asked of you instead of ignoring them.

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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    It pays reliably more than you put in, which is useful if you're, say, an institution needing to pay regular bills.
    Only ~56% of FBS football programs generate more than they cost, according to the NCAA.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Where's the proof? Insults mean nothing.

    The U.S. is better looking after its citizens instead of spending 700 billion on the military.
    By spending 700 billion, it is.

    In the history of the world, the wisdom of forward defense over territorial defense has been proven time and time and time again.

    It is the United States' responsibility to be the principal defender of the liberal world order since World War II that we largely constructed and YOU, Canadian, are a beneficiary of. As we've seen with just a few years of the US being rather lax at that under Obama, when we aren't doing that, predators come to the door.

    America is the man on the wall. And the man on the wall needs to be well armed.

    But regardless of the geopolitics of that, the fact remains the US's elected officials charge it's security services to execute this mission. We must fully resource them, which means an increase of about $150 billion to over $750 billion (before the VA is included), or not ask them to execute the mission. What has to stop is asking them to execute the mission then giving them 80% of what they need. That 20% leads to immense shortfalls.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    By spending 700 billion, it is.

    In the history of the world, the wisdom of forward defense over territorial defense has been proven time and time and time again.

    It is the United States' responsibility to be the principal defender of the liberal world order since World War II that we largely constructed and YOU, Canadian, are a beneficiary of. As we've seen with just a few years of the US being rather lax at that under Obama, when we aren't doing that, predators come to the door.

    America is the man on the wall. And the man on the wall needs to be well armed.

    But regardless of the geopolitics of that, the fact remains the US's elected officials charge it's security services to execute this mission. We must fully resource them, which means an increase of about $150 billion to over $750 billion (before the VA is included), or not ask them to execute the mission. What has to stop is asking them to execute the mission then giving them 80% of what they need. That 20% leads to immense shortfalls.
    I thought it hasn't been built yet. Did Mexico provide the funding?
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    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

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    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    Please prove how Americans are better off with a large military instead of improved healthcare and education.

    I'm waiting.
    America is the richest, most technologicially advanced country in the world. Americans are among the world's wealthiest citizens per capita, beneficiaries of a leading human development index, and largely part of the world's largest middle class. America is one of the world's most competitive economies. And most of all, unlike 10-20 million person highly centralized European countries, the US accomplished this by being numerically and geographically enormous.

    The United Kingdom, which has had universal healthcare since after World War II is laggards in all of these. It's seen it's position sharply deteriorate decade over decade.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    America is the richest, most technologicially advanced country in the world. Americans are among the world's wealthiest citizens per capita, beneficiaries of a leading human development index, and largely part of the world's largest middle class. America is one of the world's most competitive economies. And most of all, unlike 10-20 million person highly centralized European countries, the US accomplished this by being numerically and geographically enormous.

    The United Kingdom, which has had universal healthcare since after World War II is laggards in all of these. It's seen it's position sharply deteriorate decade over decade.
    Isn't the first argument a bit of a statistical fallacy?
    If you look at the total wealth, sure, the US has an extreme lead. But that's not a fair comparison due to population size differences.
    If you look at the wealth per citizen, the US is ahead of the UK, but not by dramatic numbers. But that's because the rich in the US are extremely rich, dragging up the average.
    If you look at the median wealth per citizen, the US isn't exactly on top, and beaten by the UK.

    My data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...alth_per_adult , first table

    The way I look at it, national budgets is a matter of priority. My country spends ~70% of its national budget on the health sector rather than the military. If you get a malady in my country, you will get treatment regardless of whether you are rich or poor. In my country, we think that lifeline is more valuable than an armada of aircraft carriers. So we spend our money accordingly. I would argue this is a much more rational decision than blowing the money on a large military force.
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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    Isn't the first argument a bit of a statistical fallacy?
    If you look at the total wealth, sure, the US has an extreme lead. But that's not a fair comparison due to population size differences.
    If you look at the wealth per citizen, the US is ahead of the UK, but not by dramatic numbers. But that's because the rich in the US are extremely rich, dragging up the average.
    If you look at the median wealth per citizen, the US isn't exactly on top, and beaten by the UK.

    My data: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

    The way I look at it, national budgets is a matter of priority. My country spends ~70% of its national budget on the health sector rather than the military. If you get a malady in my country, you will get treatment regardless of whether you are rich or poor. In my country, we think that lifeline is more valuable than an armada of aircraft carriers. So we spend our money accordingly. I would argue this is a much more rational decision than blowing the money on a large military force.
    Links wikipedia as his facts haha, come off it bro, in america there is no law to pay tax, we get to keep more of our money, the uk is irrelevant on world stage, our technology controls your military and your PM is piissed after finding out, your basically americas sheep.
    Last edited by mmocd36de04915; 2017-09-29 at 08:50 AM.

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