Tier 21 prot set bonuses change.

[Lovidicus]

The new prot set bonus removes the CD of shield slam while battle cry is up. Why are we getting an almost exclusively offensive buff for our tanking set bonus?

What are your thoughts?

[Dead_MAX]

Doesn't Shield slam generate shitload of rage? For ...you know, defensive abilities?

[Deleted]

Don't forget having heavy repercussion (which you should spec into if you value survival) makes shield slam extend your shield block duration so this is almost similar to having a longer shield block after a demo shout with the added benefit of generating way more rage and doing more damage. It's a welcome change as far as i'm concerned.

[Lovidicus]

I forgot about heavy repercussions since I never run it anymore. I don't think HR has any more survivability value than AM. Maintaining near 100% shield block uptime without HR is realistic with the amount of haste we can get now and AM allows for way more usage of defensive CDs. If anything, HR is a single target damage increase, and a small one at that.

I'm still going to run AM for t21, the CD reduction on BC will be particularly juicy.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

Guys it's gladiator stance all over again. Because of a change like this we're going to be looking at haste breakpoints till the cows come home again.

Everytime all of a classes damage is encapsulated inside a small window like battlecry haste values skyrocket near breakpoints, or drop off right after them.

Thankfully we're not doing a lot of dps simming for prot warrior I guess. But, since a CRIT Shield Slam generates extra rage, there is a huge defensive benefit to not only rage gen, extending shield block like someone else mentioned above.

[Llarold]

Guys it's gladiator stance all over again. Because of a change like this we're going to be looking at haste breakpoints till the cows come home again.

The Haste breakpoints:
0% = 4 SS during BC
25% = 5 SS during BC
50% = 6 SS during BC

Not too complicated.

since a CRIT Shield Slam generates extra rage

That's not been true since WoD, but the bonus is still strong.

It's actually good whether you're specced into Heavy Repercussions or Anger Management. If you're using HR, it extends Shield Block and works similarly to the old bonus (except better), adding 5s of SB duration every minute. If you're specced Anger Management, Battle Cry becomes an enormous increase to your Rage generation - and ST damage (damage is generally why you spec into AM). The biggest effect from the t21 2p change is that it no longer heavily rewards Thundergod's Vigor. TGod's will remain a top 3 legendary, but it won't rocket up to an uncontested #1 now.

***MATH STUFF***
Assuming you're at 25% Haste, perfect latency, robot-level reactions, etc., you can fit 5 SS into a single BC. That's 5s added onto Shield Block via HR. It's also worth 100 Rage. The normal Rage generation during BC is variable, but can range from as low as 25 (1 SS, 1 TC, no resets) up to 65 (3 SS, 1 TC, 2 resets). Being liberal and assuming 1 SS reset every BC without the bonus, that's still a net positive of 55 Rage per minute (every ~30 seconds with AM). The t20 2p, by comparison, is worth ~80 Rage/minute on its own. When combined with the t20 4p and Warlord's Challenge it generates ~160 Rage/minute, but at that point we're no longer comparing 2-piece bonuses with each other.

This hasn't considered that you'll be wearing Kakushan's (if you have them), but that will weigh in favor of T21.

I'd say the t21 2-piece bonus performs pretty admirably, and Warrior damage is definitely going to be on the come up.

[Deleted]

Definetly welcomed change.

So far we had:
t19:
2p - very good defensive set bonus
4p - minimal defensive and offensive, kinda useless bonus

t20:
2p - itself very mediocre bonus
4p - combined with warlord's challenge turns BR into decent on demand rage injection

t21:
2p - VERY good offensive as well as defensive set bonus
4p - basically passive IP injection, not the greatest but also not the worst

Assuming you can fit 5x SS into BC window with demo shout up, you will get 150 rage or even more if you're using ring or gloves

Also the 2p set favours Both HR and Anger Management. Just wish we had Focused Rage with Vengeance interaction from 7.0 - 7.1.5 That would make the bonus insane absorb boost

And god it will make me a monster in world pvp areas....

[Cyclonus-WOW]

That's not been true since WoD,

I didn't fact check my post, my bad.
I haven't played Prot since then.

I'm happy to see prot warrior damage going up, but both of my MT's went to other classes because of a need for surivability, which seems to be where we've been lacking the most this tier. Honestly miss having that extra person getting tier for me =P like I had when we had a prot warrior.

I'd be interested to know too if you can achive the current optimal shield block uptime, without stacking haste, because of this set bonus. Like currently it was recommended to get around 40% hate I think. Perhaps with this new bonus you only need 30 or something.

[Deleted]

I didn't fact check my post, my bad.
I haven't played Prot since then.

I'm happy to see prot warrior damage going up, but both of my MT's went to other classes because of a need for surivability, which seems to be where we've been lacking the most this tier. Honestly miss having that extra person getting tier for me =P like I had when we had a prot warrior.

I'd be interested to know too if you can achive the current optimal shield block uptime, without stacking haste, because of this set bonus. Like currently it was recommended to get around 40% hate I think. Perhaps with this new bonus you only need 30 or something.

It's 30% this tier with HR

and no... warrior is not lacking survivability in ToS

[Cyclonus-WOW]

It's 30% this tier with HR

and no... warrior is not lacking survivability in ToS

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...with-Vengeance that guide, from this forum, says 40%. See Stat weights.

[GathOfBaal]

I don't run mythic raids, but from a heroic perspective, my survivability is through the roof.

I have 400K HPS (it varies, but that is probably average) and I can do 600K ST. Not too shabby for a tank. I run mannoroth and ring so I have AM, 4pc T20, Vengeance and Booming Voice. Sure I could change things up and have more survivability, but there doesn't seem to be a need for it.

[Llarold]

Assuming you can fit 5x SS into BC window with demo shout up, you will get 150 rage or even more if you're using ring or gloves

Great point. The synergy with Might of the Vrykul is tremendous.

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...with-Vengeance that guide, from this forum, says 40%. See Stat weights.

That same guide suggests Indomitable > Devastator...

Also it's outdated

[iamthedevil]

The new prot set bonus removes the CD of shield slam while battle cry is up. Why are we getting an almost exclusively offensive buff for our tanking set bonus?

What are your thoughts?

This. That change is awesome.

[Socialhealer]

whelp shit, now in a pvp zone if a prot warrior just looks at you, see if you can place your mouse on the release spirit button before you die, 5-6 straight shield slam crits holy fuck.

[Llarold]

That same guide suggests Indomitable > Devastator...

Also it's outdated

It's extremely outdated if it suggests Indomitable over Devastator.
For stats, get as much Haste and Mastery as possible. 40% Haste is a nice idea, but basically unreachable. 30% is reachable, but it's not like you should hit 30% Haste and immediately go "great, now I want other stats!" There really isn't a point where you won't want more Haste and Mastery.

...
Maybe in 8.0 when the class gets redesigned.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

For stats, get as much Haste and Mastery as possible. 40% Haste is a nice idea, but basically unreachable.

I'm wearing gear with haste first and the shadowleech trinket, i'm at 42% Haste. Not unreachable at 938. But yeah totally agreed the guide could be way out of date.
And agreed we don't need indom over devastator now. My prot war was using it just to survive in NH though. He quit prot war for bear halfway through that bullshit.

[Anuibus]

That same guide suggests Indomitable > Devastator...

It literally suggests the opposite.

Devastator provides a very, very large increase to both damage and survivability. Aside from a few, very niche situations, there is no reason not to take Devastator over Indomtiable, ever.

With the nerf to Never Surrender, it's even worse of a talent than it was before. Never,ever, ever use it, ever.

Verdict: Devastator in 99.99% of situations, Indomitable for the other 0.01%. If you use Never Surrender, you can and will be made fun of.

[Llarold]

It literally suggests the opposite.

It does suggest Indomitable for Dungeons, world content, etc., in the calculators. Clearly those are out-of-date, as I wouldn't recommend non-Devastator to literally anyone unless it's their first day playing Prot... and even then I might still recommend Devastator. Why train for the Olympics by tying your shoes together first?
Devastator is possibly easier to play than Indomitable, and certainly more intuitive.

Also:

Devastator: Essentially adds Devastate to each auto attack, and causes each A to also generate 5 Rage. This is a talent that requires far more awareness than the others, and should not be used unless you are very skilled.
...
Indomitable is decent. It's a huge passive boost to survivability, one that doesn't rely on trying to game your health and freak out your healers....

Devastator provides a very, very large increase to both damage and survivability. Aside from a few, very niche situations, there is no reason not to take Devastator over Indomtiable, ever.

With the nerf to Never Surrender, it's even worse of a talent than it was before. Never,ever, ever use it, ever.

Verdict: Devastator in 99.99% of situations, Indomitable for the other 0.01%. If you use Never Surrender, you can and will be made fun of.

So the MMO-Champion guide is, at best, inconsistent, and the last update was May 25, so it's without question outdated.

I've never been one for shameless self-promotion, so consider this very shameful for me: I know of a guide that is up-to-date and and consistent.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm wearing gear with haste first and the shadowleech trinket, i'm at 42% Haste. Not unreachable at 938. But yeah totally agreed the guide could be way out of date.
And agreed we don't need indom over devastator now. My prot war was using it just to survive in NH though. He quit prot war for bear halfway through that bullshit.

Can't blame him! NH was a tough instance for Block tanks.

Also, grats on your perfect gear.

[Deleted]

It literally suggests the opposite.

Sterter builds 3/4 with Indomitable...

I would recomend Indomitable only if your slightly damaged since never surrender is for fully brain damaged people...