Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Marlamin]

Already excited for Blizzcon? Why? I mean we knew it one day after Gamescom that the announcement will happen in November and right now there is not much to care about. The Silithus thing is interesting but that's it. I mean there is no chance the next expansion will be released in Q1/Q2 2018 so... I don't know why some of you are so hyped. I'm very excited to see what the next setting will be but that's it for me at the moment:

We're almost a month away to the announcement. 7.3.2 is on PTR with weekly content updates that could leak something new and some pretty interesting content, even if you ignore Silithus. Q1 beta is highly likely so yeah.. we're excited.

[TriHard]

I will admit I’d be salty if Alliance got Dragonkin and Horde didn’t get something as exotic.

Don't worry, you can have our gnomes.

[Drekmar]

Yes, I guess we're going to put you in the brig until all this blows over. Can't risk losing my playable ogres just because some dev heard you!

Meh, I too don't really want any new races or sub-races, at the best only more customization and updated models for goblins and worgens.

[Ghargatuloth]

Meh, I too don't really want any new races or sub-races, at the best only more customization and updated models for goblins and worgens.

I completely understand why you want these things, I also agree that they would be excellent additions to the game.

What I don't understand is your attitude that it's enough and wanting more than that is somehow unthinkable. If we start constantly expecting less and less from Blizz we are more likely to get less.

Then there's the sentiment that we somehow have "enough" races/classes. Which I'd say we're maybe getting there, but I feel we could stand a few more races and maybe another class or two at MOST.

[Drekmar]

I completely understand why you want these things, I also agree that they would be excellent additions to the game.

What I don't understand is your attitude that it's enough and wanting more than that is somehow unthinkable. If we start constantly expecting less and less from Blizz we are more likely to get less.

Then there's the sentiment that we somehow have "enough" races/classes. Which I'd say we're maybe getting there, but I feel we could stand a few more races and maybe another class or two at MOST.

Im completely satisfied with the number of races currently and I see no way of introducing new ones that wouldn't feel like forceful way of putting them in.

I don't expect less and less from blizzard, no idea where did you get such thing, so stop putting words into my mouth. I expect at least the same ammount of content in next expansion as they delivered in legion, or even more. New playable races is just not the content I wish for, rather than that I would choose to have more and less cramped locations with more PvE and WPvP content.

[Ghargatuloth]

I wouldn't mind more races if they are actually ones that made sense. I feel like Worgen and Pandaren were kind of shoehorned in. Murlocs, Nagas, and a lot of other races people want to play seem like they'd need quite a bit of shoehorning to add to a faction. Heck, I'm not even very fond of Demon Hunters as a class because while a cool concept, it's kind of difficult to see them blending in very well in an expansion not centered around the Legion. They're a bit niche.

It's hard to take that sentiment seriously when this game launched with playable undead. Neither the alliance or horde ever displayed ANY notion of accepting such abominations into their ranks.

After that they retconned the top tier demons into holy nomads and shoehorned shamans in for good measure because they wanted to give all classes to both factions.

THEN they upped the undead game further by making DEATH KNIGHTS playable, a class that actively feeds on death, destruction, and RAISES THE DEAD THEMSELVES. Oh, and while I am on that topic, why the HELL did we ever have warlocks? No one with an ounce of common sense on either faction would have allowed demon summoning pact making psychopaths as allies. At least demon hunters don't summon MORE demons.

But no, yeah, worgen and pandaren are TOTALLY out there, it's really strange Blizz would just start adding animal humanoids out of the blue like that.

...

Sorry, kind of a pet peeve.

Im completely satisfied with the number of races currently and I see no way of introducing new ones that wouldn't feel like forceful way of putting them in.

I don't expect less and less from blizzard, no idea where did you get such thing, so stop putting words into my mouth. I expect at least the same ammount of content in next expansion as they delivered in legion, or even more. New playable races is just not the content I wish for, rather than that I would choose to have more and less cramped locations with more PvE and WPvP content.

Ah, I see what you mean... So you sort of want to trade "New Race/Class" for more/better PvE/PvP content. While that sounds great in theory, it likely wouldn't go over all that well unless executed perfectly... Too many chefs type of deal.

Don't they have separate teams for that type of thing though?

[Drekmar]

Ah, I see what you mean... So you sort of want to trade "New Race/Class" for more/better PvE/PvP content. While that sounds great in theory, it likely wouldn't go over all that well unless executed perfectly... Too many chefs type of deal.

Don't they have separate teams for that type of thing though?

Nah, it would probably fall under art + class dept. Also I would prefer class over race. (Mail-wearing ranged dps/healer)

[Ghargatuloth]

Nah, it would probably fall under art + class dept. Also I would prefer class over race. (Mail-wearing ranged dps/healer)

Kind of a catch 22 on that one for you though, wouldn't it? Since yeah art + class would have to put in a lot of work, which would pull resources from the balance and development of other classes.

On the other hand, new race(s) would primarily be art and animation with a much smaller effort put in for the racials and such. Races likely being less of an impact to the development of the rest of the expansion.

[Drekmar]

Kind of a catch 22 on that one for you though, wouldn't it? Since yeah art + class would have to put in a lot of work, which would pull resources from the balance and development of other classes.

On the other hand, new race(s) would primarily be art and animation with a much smaller effort put in for the racials and such. Races likely being less of an impact to the development of the rest of the expansion.

You forgot that they would both require new introduction experience, therefore would require work from quest/content/world building department. Let's take goblins for example, those had 2 new separate location for their introduction, DH's had Mardum, and so fort. That's why I would rather have no class/race so that those teams can focus on endgame content. But if I had to pick, I would choose class over race to balance stuff out, legion added 2 melees, 1 tank and removed 1 ranged.

[Kazlofski]

Already excited for Blizzcon? Why? I mean we knew it one day after Gamescom that the announcement will happen in November and right now there is not much to care about. The Silithus thing is interesting but that's it. I mean there is no chance the next expansion will be released in Q1/Q2 2018 so... I don't know why some of you are so hyped. I'm very excited to see what the next setting will be but that's it for me at the moment:

That's exactly it... Hyped to see what's next in store for us.

[Feali]

Then to the brig with you as well!

I'm fairly sure those updated models are coming eventually either way, Soon™. But I am really surprised by how long it has taken them. It's more than an expansion ago the other models were updated, what could be the problem with Worgen and Goblin updates? I assumed they'd just add some more bones and things like that.

Oh they are coming with the next expansion. It's just one more selling point to put on the box so why release it now?

[Ghargatuloth]

You forgot that they would both would require new introduction experience, therefore would require work from quest/content/world building department. Let's take goblins for example, those had 2 new separate location for their introduction, DH's had Mardum, and so fort. That's why I would rather have no class/race so that those teams can focus on endgame content. But if I had to pick, I would choose class over race to balance stuff out, legion added 2 melees, 1 tank and removed 1 ranged.

You kind of contradicted yourself there a tiny bit.

The only instance in which a new class wont receive a unique starting experience to the same degree as a race is if it is not a hero class. But on the other hand, if it isn't a hero class they will have to figure out how to work around the Legion content, since the new class would not have artifacts or an order hall.

So yeah, race would require a crap ton less work, since it's still almost entirely art and animation.

I still think your idea is great in theory but wouldn't be well received by anyone but... Well, people who don't want new things and just want to stick to their mains. Based off all the polls and rambling I see on these forums as well as the official ones. Majority favors some new flavors.

[Drekmar]

You kind of contradicted yourself there a tiny bit.

The only instance in which a new class wont receive a unique starting experience to the same degree as a race is if it is not a hero class. But on the other hand, if it isn't a hero class they will have to figure out how to work around the Legion content, since the new class would not have artifacts or an order hall.

So yeah, race would require a crap ton less work, since it's still almost entirely art and animation.

I still think your idea is great in theory but wouldn't be well received by anyone but... Well, people who don't want new things and just want to stick to their mains. Based off all the polls and rambling I see on these forums as well as the official ones. Majority favors some new flavors.

No, I said BOTH class and race will require new introduction, I didn't contradict myself at all, you just need to read more carefully. Also 1 class will require less than 2 separate races, unless they do new neutral race.

[Blayze]

I wonder if there's enough suitable subraces/alternate races that we could create one for each of the player races that would fit into their starting zones so Blizzard wouldn't have to change the zones themselves?

[Ghargatuloth]

No, I said BOTH class and race will require new introduction, I didn't contradict myself at all, you just need to read more carefully. Also 1 class will require less than 2 separate races, unless they do new neutral race.

No, you need to read more carefully. I agreed with you on that notion but was saying the amount of effort the PvE and PvP teams would have to put in for just the starting zones are comparable. The problem I posed was that the new CLASS would require a lot of new abilities, balancing, class fantasy, and possibly a work around for the existing system in Legion.

Not to mention, how would Blizz market your idea exactly? "New PvE and PvP content, it's gonna be a lot better this time!" written on the box? Maybe something along the lines of "Twice as much PvE and PvP content! Six raid tiers!"

Long term it might work well to keep people invested, but it wouldn't do much to draw anyone in.

[Drekmar]

No, you need to read more carefully. I agreed with you on that notion but was saying the amount of effort the PvE and PvP teams would have to put in for just the starting zones are comparable. The problem I posed was that the new CLASS would require a lot of new abilities, balancing, class fantasy, and possibly a work around for the existing system in Legion.

Not to mention, how would Blizz market your idea exactly? "New PvE and PvP content, it's gonna be a lot better this time!" written on the box? Maybe something along the lines of "Twice as much PvE and PvP content! Six raid tiers!"

Long term it might work well to keep people invested, but it wouldn't do much to draw anyone in.

They made new models into full time feature, they can do anything at that point. Also that would require work from class team and not content/world building team, I still stand by my opinion that no new class/race should be introduced.

[Ghargatuloth]

They made new models into full time feature, they can do anything at that point. Also that would require work from class team and not content/world building team, I still stand by my opinion that no new class/race should be introduced.

My favorite part is when you only pick the points I make that you can refute, which even then it's got an opinion as an undertone.

As far as debates go I might graciously perceive this as a tie.

[Drekmar]

My favorite part is when you only pick the points I make that you can refute, which even then it's got an opinion as an undertone.

As far as debates go I might graciously perceive this as a tie.

Theres no right or wrong, its just opinions, no facts. You want new races, I want more end game content, that's all.

[Caaethil]

But no, yeah, worgen and pandaren are TOTALLY out there, it's really strange Blizz would just start adding animal humanoids out of the blue like that.

Like Tauren?

[Ghargatuloth]

Theres no right or wrong, its just opinions, no facts. You want new races, I want more end game content, that's all.

You can't market more end game content. That is a fact.

You might argue that they can, but after being burned in the past with Blizzard declaring they would do things like yearly expansions, no content droughts, more patches/raids. No one would believe it.

Not to mention that if you did add more content to end game it would feel like it was drawing the expansion out. People are already sick of neon green. Of course, they could diversify it, but there is only so much that can be done without spending too many lore features like when Anub'arak was made into a dungeon boss and then also a raid boss.

My point is they need a ringer, regardless of what you say, they need something other than "Oh yeah, guys, we are totally gonna buckle down on our PvE and PvP!"