Why is it called hypocrisy for immigrants or children to immigrants

[Zafire]

And how fair is immigration in this country currently, where depending on where you are coming from, you have to either 1) wait years or even decades, file countless paperwork, and have actual assets to invest in the US, or 2) just sneak across illegally? Using your ladder example, there's not just one but multiple ladders that lead to the same place, but each ladder varying in difficulty and length. Is it being a hypocrite to want everybody to use the same ladder?

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I don't want the ladder to be kicked down. I want everybody to be using the same ladder, which isn't the case today.

My best analogy would be....Imagine living in a busy city, and your child happens to be across the street from you for whatever reason. He/she is now being approached by a notorious kidnapper. Do you:
A: J-walk, which is illegal, but the fastest course of action.
B: Walk to the nearest cross-light, roughly 0.2 miles down the road, cross legally, and then walk 0.2 miles down the same road.

Obviously everybody would J-walk. This is reality for many immigrants. Not wanting a child to grow up in poverty and violence because our legal immigration system can take over five years is perfectly understandable.

We say that immigrants are taking our jobs, yet we also shun American welfare recipients because they wont find jobs (Some of them do, some of them don't). Them being on welfare is keeping competition away from you! It's hypocritical as fuck. My ideology is: If they want to integrate into our society, let them. If they want to just leech, send them home. We need to make it faster to come here legally so more people will do it.

[Themius]

How is it wrong to say this is our immigration law. If you break the law you must leave?

And working for cash under the table means they didn’t pay taxes on their income but you bet they took advantage of roads and schools for their kids.

Sorry I have zero sympathy for people, especially adults who came here illegally when many have gone the legal route and waited and done it right. Those illegial a need to gtfo and do it legally.

Who is to blame go Under the table. The immigrants or employers? Plenty of poor Americans work under the table he’ll. Most baby sitters are under the table most waiters and waitresses don’t report their under the table pay that makes up the majority of their pay.

[spanishninja]

My best analogy would be....Imagine living in a busy city, and your child happens to be across the street from you for whatever reason. He/she is now being approached by a notorious kidnapper. Do you:
A: J-walk, which is illegal, but the fastest course of action.
B: Walk to the nearest cross-light, roughly 0.2 miles down the road, cross legally, and then walk 0.2 miles down the same road.

Obviously everybody would J-walk. This is reality for many immigrants. Not wanting a child to grow up in poverty and violence because our legal immigration system can take over five years is perfectly understandable.

We say that immigrants are taking our jobs, yet we also shun American welfare recipients because they wont find jobs (Some of them do, some of them don't). Them being on welfare is keeping competition away from you! It's hypocritical as fuck. My ideology is: If they want to integrate into our society, let them. If they want to just leech, send them home. We need to make it faster to come here legally so more people will do it.

your analogy is odd because the circumstamce sounds like negligent parenting in the first place, but I digress.


plenty of children from countries that are not able to simply waltz across to America are also living in poverty (sometimes even more so). what do you say tp them? "too bad"? a poor Mexican kid is not any more deserving of a better life than a poor African or Cambodian kid, but currently the Mexican kid's chances for a better life in America are much higher than that of the other two. How is that fair to the other two kids?

The solution is like you said...reform the legal immigration system so that more people can undergo the correct process, not ignore clear violation of laws. At the same time, we have to simply accept that not everybody is the world will have a chance of living in the US, just like with every country.

[Runenwächter]

To want to reduce immigration? Kind of curious about why someone who is an immigrant or child of an immigrant can't be supporting reducing the numbers without being called hypocrites. What is it that makes them hypocrites, exactly? Do you think immigrants or children to immigrants should be supporting status quo in regards or or more immigration to the country rather than restricting it?

First and foremost there is a difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. So when the later accuses the former of hypocrisy they are relying on the power of the accusation and obviously not on the capacity for critical thinking of those that agree with them.

Secondly immigration happend because those taht migrated sought to improve their living conditions. Now their standart of living that they have fought and worked for is declining and immigration plays a role in this development. If any of the original motivation remains, of course they are against further immigration.

Third, not all immigration is the same. Circumstances obviously matter. It is important who migrates where, how big of a difference in culture and in wealth there is between the native and immigrant population and wether a social and healthcare system that effectively transfers money from the native population to the immigrants is in place. Also there are cultural factors where those that consider themselves natives consider further growth of a minority culture as a bad thing. One of those reasons is because these cultures may harbor deeply ingrained values that they had tried to escape, such as misoginy, homophobia, extremely strict gender roles, tribalistic hierarchies and, if you excuse the term please, rape culture. I am bringing up a whole list of really horrible traits and that list does not refer to any ONE culture, but one of those traits might be reason enough for the individual to feel they dont want ANY of that around and are thus acting protective/selfish, depending on how you look at it.

[LaserChild9]

Kind of curious about why someone who is an immigrant or child of an immigrant can't be supporting reducing the numbers without being called hypocrites. What is it that makes them hypocrites, exactly?

Because it's like saying that they don't want other people to have the same opportunities that they were given. The hypocrisy is that at some point in the past them or their family asked for that same help.

[D3thray]

I don't care about immigrants, I just want it done legally. The only reason it's a giant ethical mess is because of decades of lack of enforcement. Ideally we find some reasonable accommodation for those in residence paying taxes and hard enforce the existing law after a certain cutoff date.

[CMartel]

That's like saying, "I got this free cupcake, but I'm going to make sure nobody else gets a free cupcake like my free cupcake."

Yeah, that's hypocrisy.

The Hispanics fleeing California do so because CA is becoming too much like Mexico and they know there are still nice neighborhoods in the US they can move to that are not like Mexico. Understand the concept of carrying capacity.

If you fled London to get away from acid attacks & everything associated with the religion of peace, you would be against people burning down Berkley to prevent a gay man, Milo Yinnopalas, from (free speech) warning People about the interaction of gays & moslems in his homeland.

[sarahtasher]

The Hispanics fleeing California do so because CA is becoming too much like Mexico and they know there are still nice neighborhoods in the US they can move to that are not like Mexico. Understand the concept of carrying capacity.

If you fled London to get away from acid attacks & everything associated with the religion of peace, you would be against people burning down Berkley to prevent a gay man, Milo Yinnopalas, from (free speech) warning People about the interaction of gays & moslems in his homeland.

You have not followed the agitprop scene, Milo was cast away as useless when he opened his big mouth one time too many and defended paedophilia.

[Melius]

i dont think anyone has a problem with legal immigrants that follow the rules and laws of the country they move to.

[Machismo]

The Hispanics fleeing California do so because CA is becoming too much like Mexico and they know there are still nice neighborhoods in the US they can move to that are not like Mexico. Understand the concept of carrying capacity.

If you fled London to get away from acid attacks & everything associated with the religion of peace, you would be against people burning down Berkley to prevent a gay man, Milo Yinnopalas, from (free speech) warning People about the interaction of gays & moslems in his homeland.

Contrary to what you may believe, California is still a pretty decent state. I fully understand carrying capacity, and the United States can easily handle more.

I'm against all forms of political violence. Then again, I'm also against almost all forms of violence and force from the government, as well. I think Milo should have been able to speak, because I support free speech, no matter how big of a fucking idiot is doing the talking. Yes, Milo is a troll, and his fans are fucking idiots.

I fully support the freedom of religion, so if a Muslim wants to live here, they are welcome. Freedom is awesome.

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i dont think anyone has a problem with legal immigrants that follow the rules and laws of the country they move to.

The issue is what rules are put in place. In the case of the United States, there is a push to make more and more rules and laws.

[Vash The Stampede]

It makes sense for them, but as Prince Oberyn points out, its kicking the ladder for very selfish reasons.

Companies want immigrants to get cheap labor for selfish reasons. People don't want immigrants so their jobs value isn't reduced. Immigrants want in cause their country is a shit hole. Either way, it's for selfish reasons.

[Mittens]

Companies want immigrants to get cheap labor for selfish reasons. People don't want immigrants so their jobs value isn't reduced. Immigrants want in cause their country is a shit hole. Either way, it's for selfish reasons.

Sure, but kicking the ladder that you used so that you can preserve your status is, I think, worse than making use of it.

[Vash The Stampede]

Sure, but kicking the ladder that you used so that you can preserve your status is, I think, worse than making use of it.

That ladder was open because America was desperate for cheap labor. The Irish weren't brought in because they were hard working people with great family values, but a bunch of drunks that society saw were as bad if not worse than blacks. They were used as a cheap source of labor that we abused. Now America doesn't need cheap labor, and in fact we want to protect the value of our labor by blocking anymore immigrants. You can't use the guise of "you got in so therefore everyone should get in", without repercussions. America is still a country, and like any smart country it needs to control the rate of immigrants in its walls.

And for what? So that businesses can get cheap labor, while we ask for $15 minimum wage? If we can't have our living wages then they can't have cheap foreign labor.

[Mittens]

That ladder was open because America was desperate for cheap labor. The Irish weren't brought in because they were hard working people with great family values, but a bunch of drunks that society saw were as bad if not worse than blacks. They were used as a cheap source of labor that we abused. Now America doesn't need cheap labor, and in fact we want to protect the value of our labor by blocking anymore immigrants. You can't use the guise of "you got in so therefore everyone should get in", without repercussions. America is still a country, and like any smart country it needs to control the rate of immigrants in its walls.

And for what? So that businesses can get cheap labor, while we ask for $15 minimum wage? If we can't have our living wages then they can't have cheap foreign labor.

This is getting off topic. But to quickly address some of these topics:

1. Not everything should be done because it is needed, values are important. I still believe America is a land of opportunities and everyone deserves a chance to try their luck. We still should control our borders for obvious reasons.
2. If you want to aid workers start with more worker's rights. Labor's share has been falling across all major industries ,it's a trend that has been going for quite a while.

[kail]

i dont think anyone has a problem with legal immigrants that follow the rules and laws of the country they move to.

There are people who do, following the laws doesn't mean they don't "take jobs".

That and some extreme nationalists will have a predisposed issue with anyone coming from certain areas.

[Themius]

"I got mine, fuck you"

[Freighter]

"I got mine, fuck you"

If you think it's detrimental to your country why should you be supporting it just because you're an immigrant? Doesn't make any logical sense. Immigrants are individuals themselves and have their own opinions.

[Vash The Stampede]

1. Not everything should be done because it is needed, values are important.

Values are made up shit that nobody understands. I'm pragmatic, I go with facts not feels. Most of the immigration America has had was from Europe, which is doing a lot better now and most of those people wouldn't want to live here cause as they see it we Americans live to work and have just enough time to come home and enjoy a beer.

So where does the corporate overloads go fish now for cheap labor? 3rd world countries that have people with beliefs even the Europeans don't want. And yes this shit is very relavent cause immigration, especially illegal immigration is all about that sweat cheap labor. If we should immigrant anyone it should be people of higher standards and higher pay.

I still believe America is a land of opportunities and everyone deserves a chance to try their luck.

Yea, I wish I could believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny but then I grew up.

We still should control our borders for obvious reasons.

We either control or not control the borders. There's no in between. There's no Schrodinger's cat for immigration where we don't know if the immigrant is or isn't hiding in the semi truck until someone checks it.

2. If you want to aid workers start with more worker's rights. Labor's share has been falling across all major industries ,it's a trend that has been going for quite a while.

You can't have workers rights so long as there's lobbying and capitalism. Companies are always working to save money and they don't give a shit about you. Until Lobbying is removed and Capitalism is regulated to hell and back, you have no rights. The best you can do is use capitalism to your advantage by using supply and demand. Limit the supply of workers and the demand for your work increases, and therefore your pay increases. Corporations know this better than anyone else, which is why a lot of them hire illegals to avoid paying higher wages.

To give you an idea of how futile our efforts are, IBM has more employee's in India than the US. You don't even need to immigrate to the US anymore, you just move your shit to another cheap country. Once companies move their servers to the cloud, anyone around the world can manage it. Even if we don't open our borders for any Tom, Dick, or Harry, we still have a global issue of employment. Just don't give companies what they want, and don't allow any immigrant to enter. For fucks sake, only 36% of them can write code. So it's not like they're capable people.

[Yelmurc]

To want to reduce immigration? Kind of curious about why someone who is an immigrant or child of an immigrant can't be supporting reducing the numbers without being called hypocrites. What is it that makes them hypocrites, exactly? Do you think immigrants or children to immigrants should be supporting status quo in regards or or more immigration to the country rather than restricting it?

Is a man a hypocrite if he doesn't want his wife banging other dudes? Now if someone got into the country illegally and then complained that they where against illegal immigration, then I'd say that is hypocritical.

[Mittens]

Values are made up shit that nobody understands. I'm pragmatic, I go with facts not feels. Most of the immigration America has had was from Europe, which is doing a lot better now and most of those people wouldn't want to live here cause as they see it we Americans live to work and have just enough time to come home and enjoy a beer.

So where does the corporate overloads go fish now for cheap labor? 3rd world countries that have people with beliefs even the Europeans don't want. And yes this shit is very relavent cause immigration, especially illegal immigration is all about that sweat cheap labor. If we should immigrant anyone it should be people of higher standards and higher pay.

Yea, I wish I could believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny but then I grew up.

We either control or not control the borders. There's no in between. There's no Schrodinger's cat for immigration where we don't know if the immigrant is or isn't hiding in the semi truck until someone checks it.

You can't have workers rights so long as there's lobbying and capitalism. Companies are always working to save money and they don't give a shit about you. Until Lobbying is removed and Capitalism is regulated to hell and back, you have no rights. The best you can do is use capitalism to your advantage by using supply and demand. Limit the supply of workers and the demand for your work increases, and therefore your pay increases. Corporations know this better than anyone else, which is why a lot of them hire illegals to avoid paying higher wages.

To give you an idea of how futile our efforts are, IBM has more employee's in India than the US. You don't even need to immigrate to the US anymore, you just move your shit to another cheap country. Once companies move their servers to the cloud, anyone around the world can manage it. Even if we don't open our borders for any Tom, Dick, or Harry, we still have a global issue of employment. Just don't give companies what they want, and don't allow any immigrant to enter. For fucks sake, only 36% of them can write code. So it's not like they're capable people.

First of all, values are not some random shit that no one understands. They are our foundation and how we should act. And second, there is no objectively way better of governing, it all depends on what are your priorities.(unless you can now provide and objectively "good" way of acting).

As for the rest of the points:

Yea, I wish I could believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny but then I grew up.

The fact that there living standards substantially rises when the immigrate to america indicates otherwise.

We either control or not control the borders. There's no in between. There's no Schrodinger's cat for immigration where we don't know if the immigrant is or isn't hiding in the semi truck until someone checks it.

There is the "I want to loosen up immigration requirements" option. Not everything is you are either anti-immigrant or in favor of illegal immigration.