The Leaders of the Orders, going forward

[Toppy]

I don't mind getting titles, but I see Order Hall dying out after Legion.

They have to, they only work if they get focus -every expansion-. Either order halls get expanded every single expansion or they get abandoned. Its something thats all or nothing with no inbetween.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Warlock: Ritssyn Flamescowl as Netherlord

Stop right there bae. Why do you think the "netherlord" title is an actual title that exists when regarding to the silly lore of Chris Metzen? Was the first orc warlock, Gul'dan, ever described as the (or a) netherlord? Was Kil'jaeden ever described as a netherlord by canon? The netherlord is a silly title that fraudulent Blizzard employees pulled out of their arse, then applied to a (role)playable warlock who shouldn't be able to do all these crazy things that Gul'dan weren't able to do. The Blizzard employees depict the (role)playable orc demonologists as OP pseudo-gods who have mastery over demons when Gul'dan himself was just a weak-sauce slave of Kil'jaeden. He was no netherlord.

[chrisisvacant]

Stop right there bae. Why do you think the "netherlord" title is an actual title that exists when regarding to the silly lore of Chris Metzen? Was the first orc warlock, Gul'dan, ever described as the (or a) netherlord? Was Kil'jaeden ever described as a netherlord by canon? The netherlord is a silly title that fraudulent Blizzard employees pulled out of their arse, then applied to a (role)playable warlock who shouldn't be able to do all these crazy things that Gul'dan weren't able to do. The Blizzard employees depict the (role)playable orc demonologists as OP pseudo-gods who have mastery over demons when Gul'dan himself was just a weak-sauce slave of Kil'jaeden. He was no netherlord.

All due respect, but MU Gul'dan and AU Gul'dan are vastly different creatures. AU Gul'dan is not weaksauce by any means and he succeeded in almost every way MU Gul'dan failed.

[Adoxe]

We've already seen the canonical leaders in the 7.2 intro.
They're the following:
Death Knight - Darion Mograine
Mage - Meryl Felstorm
Shaman - Farseer Nobundo
Paladin - Gryan Stoutmantle
Demon Hunter - Kor'vas Bloodthorn
Warrior - Havi
Priest - Alonsus Faol
Rogue - Jorach Ravenholdt
Druid - Rensar Greathoof
Monk - Iron-Body Ponshu
Hunter - Emmarel Shadewarden
Warlock - Ritssyn Flamescowl

[Deleted]

We've already seen the canonical leaders in the 7.2 intro.

More like the canonical second-in-commands (save for Odyn since he's clearly the leader).

edit:

Actually we don't know which one is canon.

Either every class order is led by a nameless hero in Legion.

or

Only your class order is led by a nameless hero while the other orders have a named npc leader.

[Whitedragon]

I'll never get this fetish of being a shit shoveling boar killing bear ass collecting nobody for 10+ years.

It makes perfect sense to start as a nobody and work your way up from lowly grunt/footman, but to stay a random hobo for all these expansions despite facing awesome threats countless times? What's the point? Just get a second job and be a lowly nobody cashier if that's your idea of fun.

Would you rather have raids be bear hunts or plainstrider stampedes to stay "in character" with our lowly status?

But even with our high and mighty title we still are out collecting boar asses.... And now the game makes it look like we are wasting our best and brightest doing that kind of thing....

Basically what I'm saying is an adventurer can be an errand boy AND a hero, while I don't think the Commanders of the worlds strongest forces can really spare time to do the same...

[Taium]

Hey, at least we got the order hall portal in every zone (except Argus), that must count for something.

That would glitch out, d/c us, and we'd log back in in some random corner of Azsuna. And yes, I know they fixed it.

[ONCHEhap]

For most classes, we players are still taking orders from certain representatives in each Order Hall. Yes, there's a "Huntmaster" but the operations and maintenance of the Unseen Path/Trueshot Lodge has mostly fallen on Emmarel Shadewarden. She was also the main representative of that particular order in Dalaran en route to the Broken Shore in 7.1. The other orders had their own representatives:

Shown here are Emmarel Shadewarden (Unseen Path), Alonsus Faol (Conclave), Jorach Ravenholdt (Uncrowned), Rensar Greathoof (Cenarion Circle), Darion Mograine (Ebon Blade), Meryl Felstorm (Tirisgarde), Nobundo (Earthen Ring), Gryan Stoutmantle (Silver Hand), Kor'vas Bloodthorn (Illidari), Iron-Body Ponshu (Broken Temple), Havi/Odyn (Valarjar), and Ritssyn Flamescowl (Black Harvest). These are all excellent candidates should we leave the orders, because they all have shown leadership skills in place of the player character anyway.

It should be noted that many of these orders already have a leader or council in the first place. Mages, shamans, druids, rogues, and warlocks are one of several council members in an order created by said council members. Warriors, DKs, and the Illidari are the second-in-command for orders that have an active leader already. Priests simply lead the charge for a temple built and run by Velen, Moira, and Faol. Monks, hunters, and paladins take the broken pieces of several former orders and meld them into one order, but there are still other capable authority figures there as well. Every order is accounted for with or without the current leader. Nearly all of these orders have existed long before we came along, and some of them are even reputation factions from former expansions.

The other options is that the order halls will be relevant in future expansions, with us still as the leaders. It's entirely possible to keep them updated with each expansion, including the missions. Many people voiced their opinions about garrison missions, yet Blizzard kept them and made them much more manageable in Legion. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they would continue this. Considering the order halls were move relevant in the beginning of Legion and tapered off in importance toward the end, it's possible for them to be around in future expansions later on as well. It's not like after this every order will all of a sudden disband - there have always been orders for each class (Silver Hand/Argent Dawn/Argent Crusade), now they're just united (New Silver Hand).

You make a fair point,it's true that the players do feel like some kind of crisis situation enforcer more than a leader,we're more of a champion that the order hall champions are,as in they put themselves behind us so that we become a living weapon against the Legion

[Sky High]

That would glitch out, d/c us, and we'd log back in in some random corner of Azsuna. And yes, I know they fixed it.

Uh god, how many times... just trying to get to Dal.

[cparle87]

Deaht Knight: Why's Darion not considered, just cause he's one of the Riders? I think Darion Mograine. And he should be given the Blades of the Fallen Prince too.

I don't remember which weapon it was, but at one point when the death knight player receives one of the artifacts Darion point blank says better you than him, and that he's very glad he doesn't have to wield another life-destroying weapon of destiny.

[Beloren]

all of this... Players should be important, like we were in Wrath ("veterans"), but not too important(military commanders, leaders of entire classes)... Us being the leaders of anything but a guild is stupid.

that sounds a bit silly to me after the player has had so many world saving victories, anything but a leader is just ridiculous storywise

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Pretty much all of this. I don't ever once recall people asking us what to do before WoD. It was always "Yeah uh you're that new guy here, right? I hear from your faction leader that you're a veteran of the wars. Good to have you. Now, us being the all powerful and mighty shamans of this land request you go about gathering poop from the local elementals so we can combine it into a magical salve that will throw Deathwing all the way to Kalimdor. Also did we mention you're literally collecting shit for us? Pretty funny, eh?"

Now it's like "OH SHIT COMMANDER! You are the ONLY one who can save us" *Lady Liadrin throws herself at your boots* "Thank god for the Highlord!"
And then she walks over to the next guy and says the same thing to them.

I sincerely hope the next expansion starts with everybody getting amnesia about the player characters so we can go back to helping the shamans cleanse the land by collecting magical poop instead of slaying an entire battalion of demons with a flick of our wrists.

and this never struck you as totally unrealistic? having amnesia about who you are after defeating the Lich King or Deathwing or even the Legion - that's like the most unrealistic thing ever, you can't help but be the leader after so many notches on your bel. It makes little sense storywise to be anything but at this stage. I say its about freakin time

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We were a part of the vanguard in TBC, nowhere close to the leader.
In WotLK we're referred to just as "veterans"

Cataclysm is where we gained some prominence (You know, the expansion where the game started going downhill), but even then, it wasn't shoved in our faces and we weren't leaders. MoP was similar to Cataclysm, we were important, we found ourselves in a high position; however, we were still subservient to others. WoD was the expansion that introduced "Commander," not BC.

Sorry, but us being in that role is horrible for the story. It's inarguable.

MoP was terrible o have you , victor over deathwiing enlisted as some green recruit.


Basically WoW needs to offer two options to players, one where they are the leader, and another where they are not, new players coming into the latest expansion woud not e heroes or leaders unless they have completed earlier content, but at least an option for those who alredy did to not be leaders should be available, like they pass on the promotion

[Utigarde]

Half of the orders would disassemble after Legion, seeing as it's their only reason for existing. Also, why would Rexxar lead the Unseen Path over Emmarel ?

[Schattenlied]

that sounds a bit silly to me after the player has had so many world saving victories, anything but a leader is just ridiculous storywise

And my point is it never should have gotten that far. We were soldiers, adventurers, we fought under the command of lore heroes like Varian, Thrall, and Tirion, it should have stayed that way... Those lore heroes should be the ones in command, not us.

[Hctaz]

and this never struck you as totally unrealistic? having amnesia about who you are after defeating the Lich King or Deathwing or even the Legion - that's like the most unrealistic thing ever, you can't help but be the leader after so many notches on your bel. It makes little sense storywise to be anything but at this stage. I say its about freakin time

I'd rather have some stupid and unrealistic reset of our characters than this bullshit progression of our characters into magic "We're OP land"

We didn't beat the majority of the villains you're talking about. In Vanilla, the only raid we, the players, cleared without the aid of some super important lore figures doing most of the work was AQ. The only reason we did anything in TBC against Illidan or KJ was because we had some serious help. The only reason the Lich King lost was because of Tirion. Tirion got the credit, not us. Same with Deathwing. Thrall, the aspects, and the dragon soul beat him, not us. All we did was buy enough time for them to use it properly. The gameplay does not equal the actual lore.

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And my point is it never should have gotten that far. We were soldiers, adventurers, we fought under the command of lore heroes like Varian, Thrall, and Tirion, it should have stayed that way... Those lore heroes should be the ones in command, not us.

Yeah this. People like to talk like our player characters were some crazy shit. We weren't. We only beat the people we did because we had powerful lore figures by our side. Maiev and Akama, Kalecgos and the physical manifestation of the Sunwell itself, Tirion, Thrall and the Aspects... We didn't actually do very much lorewise. We just helped the heroes beat the villains.

We didn't spend 15 minutes fighting the Lich King. That is all just gameplay. If we saw the actual story without the gameplay, you'd probably see a 1-2 minute fight at most where the heroes are scrambling to stay alive before he realizes we aren't pathetic and kills us all to resurrect us. We only get the sense that we were doing damage because we can see his health bar. He wasn't even really taking damage. We were like little insects swatting at him. The health bar thing is just a metric used to gauge the gameplay.

[Lucetia]

So, with Legion slowly coming to an end and the Order Halls probably staying Legion content.

Who will be the canonical Leaders of those Orders? Its for sure not player character xyz

Why can't we still be leaders? We can command our Order Halls and still visit the new content. We don't have to physically go to the Class Hall in order to command it. Just like how we are still the commander of the Draenor forces.

[Deleted]

I considered this as well. mainly i am looking forward to how blizzard will necklet it. i figured it would come down to 1 of a few things.
1: Just forget about it! -> and by this i mean, like so many things, blizzard will just stop mentinging it, and hope people will forget about it, and i honestly feel like this is the most likely.
2:yeah suure i guess? -> We will still officaly be the leader of a our class, but it will only be brought up like 3 times or so in the first 8.0. then not at all in 8.1, and they "oh shit people are angry about this" refer to us being the leader of our class 2 times or so in 8.2.
3: lets give it up -> this might be the one they will go with, our charcter will reassign as class leaders, for god knows what reason. and that be kind of it.

I have no confidens in blizzard will pull it off well.

[Deleted]

Hope the orders will fall apart at the end of Legion or the begin of the next exp pack.
I cant stand these boring neutral quest hub orders.

[Lucetia]

Yeah this. People like to talk like our player characters were some crazy shit. We weren't. We only beat the people we did because we had powerful lore figures by our side. Maiev and Akama, Kalecgos and the physical manifestation of the Sunwell itself, Tirion, Thrall and the Aspects... We didn't actually do very much lorewise. We just helped the heroes beat the villains.

Except gameplay / lore doesn't see it that way. Even going into the paladin class hall you get a line that says "I heard Highlord <Name> has killed Ragnaros, twice." Just like they also reference how you can come back from the dead multiple times.

[Hctaz]

Except gameplay / lore doesn't see it that way. Even going into the paladin class hall you get a line that says "I heard Highlord <Name> has killed Ragnaros, twice." Just like they also reference how you can come back from the dead multiple times.

That's something that is extremely new to Legion and only Legion. I don't know why they decided to change the way they viewed these events. Originally, we only defeated Ragnaros the second time with the help of three very powerful lore characters. In fact, if you didn't do Ragnaros on Heroic mode, you only received part of the fight and he would disappear into the lava. On heroic, Malfurion and... some other people I don't remember immediately... show up and force him back out of his lava prison and then directly aid you in defeating him. Without those characters, we would not have won. Same goes for almost every other powerful lore villain.

If that is still true, then the people who speak of you in awe are just misunderstanding the actual facts. You paladin would have done nothing without a raid and the lore character's support. My death knight is the same. We only won because we had very powerful characters on our side, and a group of other heroes to aid us.

[Enrif]

I like the discussion going on, and from what i read i see a way to reconcile that mess of being the class order leader.

It's very simple, we pass on the mantle in a Quest at the end of Legion after our Artefact Weapons get removed from us, which we still don't know exactly how they are doing this. We as Characters will still hold the Title of Highlord/Deathlord/Battlelord/Netherlord...etc. as an Honorary Title but will not be the leader anymore.
This way the accomplishments of the Characters is not lost, but the Orders can work in future Lore without the baggage of the Player Character as the Leader.