How will flight be handled the next expac?

[Deleted]

Same as now. = pathfinder achiv in half of exp.

[KayRule]

Okay. That was Cata. I can get that. So did anyone have any problems with flying at max level? Ever? Because noone very few are asking for flying from the get go.

We just want to be able to finish Pathfinder within a reasonable time.

No I agree, end level like in WotLK and Pandaria is good. I also don't mind a little delay from launch either though, as it still allows a sense of exploration and stuff to be hidden even at Max level.

I think the problem is how long it takes for them to add Pathfinder. It should have been in when Suramar Raid opened at it's LATEST. I would have been fine if they just wait for Emerald Nightmare to actually unlock before we could get it. But having it available upon hitting the max level of an expac is fine by me too.

I think flying ruined WoW's world design and forced every expansion and patch content zones to be islands and made the world feel incredibly small BUT at the same time after having flying in Outland in BC I could never go back to not having it. In the WotLK days when you could fly in Outland and Northerend but not EK or Kalimdor it was incredibly frustrating. Once you're given that freedom to go anywhere and avoid obstacles, you can't not give it to me. But at the same time when you can fly over a zone in a minute it does shatter the illusion of scale.

[Wheeljack]

I don't mind the pathfinder concept at all as long as it isn't unnecessary time-gated.

For example requiring X amount of rep, but there is no way to efficiently farm said rep.
I don't mind them gating it behind weekly story-quests for a given period of time.

[Deleted]

There was a fair few complaints about flying pre cata. In wrath I rember the 2 common complaints being flying made icecrown to easy and flying being required to get to ulduar making your raid have to summon you if you didn't have it/want it. The complaint in tbc was mostly about the gold cost gate and people with flying strip farming resource nodes.

[Ielenia]

1. Double down on good ideas put flight behind some meta achievement and it won't be available till the first content patch of the expac.

That's my answer.

[Granyala]

Not saying that's perfect. Just saying there are ways to make it happen.

Sure but 2 points:
1) If they make air travel as tedious and combat-forcing as ground travel -> what is the point? So far, the whole point of flight was to have an OP convienient mode of travel once you have done your dues and experienced content the "annoying" way.
2) How much resources would this cost and would it be worth it? I don't believe so. Vashj'ir /Malygos has proven that WoWs combat does not really work in a 3D environment.

Blizzard isn't run by idiots (contrary to popular belief). They wanted air combat back in Wrath. They even advertised it. Ultimately, they could not make it work properly.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't find not flying to be tedious in anyway.

Well, good for you then. I find being spammed with idiotic and trivial trash mobs that can only do one thing: have a truckload of HP, to be exceedingly boring.
The less I need to kill the better.

- - - Updated - - -

There was dozens of threads complaining about flying ruining world design and exploration in Cataclysm at such high volumes it's the only reason flying in Pandaria was locked to endgame like it was in WotLK.

Cata WAS a problem, absolutely, but (believe me I was active in the forums back then) no one, except for a few wPvP freaks, complained about flight at max level.

That only started once a certain DEV stated his dislike of flight on Twitter. THAT's when people started to parrot. Before that, the #1 question pre cata was "when can we finally fly in the old world?!"

[Serath]

Definitely pathfinder again. I'm okay with that method to be honest. I didn't think it was too onerous and I don't mind not flying in the last zone. I think maybe it should have been progressive though. Like maybe you can fly in the main expansion zone within a few months instead of waiting until the second major patch.

[Deleted]

I worked toward flying as well. I did Explorer, I did Loremaster, I did reputations, dungeons, raids. Why did I have to wait 8 month to get the reward? Do we get raid loot 8 month later by mail?

- - - Updated - - -



That's the thing though. It's not halfway. It's very towards no flying. If it was halfway we could get it at x.0 with a Pathfinder that includes everything to be done in every zone. That is clearly not the case though.

You can also argue that half way is in the middle of the expansion, which it seems to be right now. The problem can be looked at trough many perspectives and we will still have different opinions what is halfway trough.

This is exacly what my previous point is all about, people will never be satisfied and will always cry. They will just have to find a happy medium.

(im not implying that your post was whiny, im just using it as an example)

[Deleted]

You can also argue that half way is in the middle of the expansion, which it seems to be right now. The problem can be looked at trough many perspectives and we will still have different opinions what is halfway trough.

This is exacly what my previous point is all about, people will never be satisfied and will always cry. They will just have to find a happy medium.

(im not implying that your post was whiny, im just using it as an example)

Well yeah, we can use that as a halfway point, and I was considering it. But I think we should measure the halfway point based on content. Not just time between 7.0 and 8.0.

They of course can't satisfy everyone. But that's the biggest issue. Most of the playerbase was very happy or at least content with flying. Once a dev said he doesn't like flying suddenly everyone started hating it.

So in reality people were satisfied. Noone complained except for Cata. Blizz did this to themselves with WoD. For no apparent reason as well.

[deadhorse12]

This no flying bullshit seems like a blizzactivi$$ion tactic.

More walking = more time to complete events = more subscription length = more $$

You get flying when it's at a point that it's not really that relevant anymore, and then they release another area where everything takes place, which coincidentally also has no flying.

Same goes for content gating most likely.

Conspiracy theory? Maybe, but this shit wouldn't surprise me by a long shot anymore.

[Orby]

same way they do all the time, enjoy the content first then give you flying later... the best way

[Razion]

Yeah they will never do this. They talk about how everybody hated Vashjir in Cataclysm because of the problems that flying combat enabled (and swimming IS flying combat). I never had a problem with it, but apparently enough people hated it so that they decided it was a bad idea to try it again. I assume this follows through to flying combat.

Also they would have to implement a new daze effect or make every flying mob move at mount speed. I just don't see how they'd do it. The whole point is that they don't want people to skip the ground combat. Putting some new daze effect that doesn't dismount you but you makes you permanently move slower until leaving combat would probably be just as aids to you as the way grounded only content works. But that's the only way they'd put flying in at the very start of max level without flying combat. You would have some new effect that effectively works like daze without knocking you off of your mount.

I never had any problems in Vashj'ir either. Everyone apparently loves Suramar, and Suramar has that Vrkyul underwater area. Maybe players have gotten better at navigating 3D space for combat? Don't hear people lamenting about other underwater WQs or anything either. Didn't hear complaints about Al'akir either... maybe it was just specifically Vashj'ir that people had a problem with? Too many eels or something?

[Deleted]

Well yeah, we can use that as a halfway point, and I was considering it. But I think we should measure the halfway point based on content. Not just time between 7.0 and 8.0.

They of course can't satisfy everyone. But that's the biggest issue. Most of the playerbase was very happy or at least content with flying. Once a dev said he doesn't like flying suddenly everyone started hating it.

So in reality people were satisfied. Noone complained except for Cata. Blizz did this to themselves with WoD. For no apparent reason as well.

Then we have to ask ourself on what content truly is, is it supposed to be locked behind:

Raids?
Quests?
Pet battles?
Exploration?

The reason i think people gladly accepted flying was that the time it took for a player to reach point A -> B was absolutely ridiculous in vanilla when flying wasn't an option, if flying was introduced today with the flightpath system we have have today the outcome would probably be different (my speculations) . I think that the current no sayers to flying are people that have never enjoyed flying, but flying solved a vital flaw in vanilla and that is the hassle to move around from place to place in an acceptable manner. People has always been skeptical towards flying but when it solved one of the core issues surely they are going to embrace it as a positive change.

But what happens when we now have a fully functional flight path system? Of course Blizzard are going to want the old system back again when their previous problems are fixed. Blizzard want you to explore their world, see the artists works and the time they spent creating it, not just fly over it and ignore every piece of scenery that the artists struggled to make. That's why i think blizzard went with the time gating model, use flying as a carrot to keep people playing while letting them all explore the content that was tailored towards ground mounts.

I accept the counter argument that blizz could make zones that is also tailored towards flying mounts etc. Storm peaks. But that doesn't seem to be their vision on what the game is supposed to be sadly.

[Deleted]

...Blizzard want you to explore their world, see the artists works and the time they spent creating it, not just fly over it and ignore every piece of scenery that the artists struggled to make.

That is the bullshit excuse they came up with. I did see the scenery. It was nice. Now can I get my flying after 2-3 months of beautiful scenery?

And some places are better from afar. Suramar is more impressive from above then in an alleyway.

[Mormolyce]

If we stop talking about it Blizzard will remove flying forever. If they could get away with it they would remove it from old content as well I'd wager. That adds more gametime as well..

That's ridiculous.

[Swalload]

This is a burning question on my mind. Although I really enjoyed Legion I enjoyed it so much more once I had flight, but damn if it wasn't one hell of a wait.

Pre no flight I only had one toon I played, and very little. Post flight being enabled I have 9 toons at max level and play a considerable amount more (this applies for both me and my wife).

So what are they going to do

1. Double down on stupid put flight behind some BS achievement and it won't be available till the last half of the expac.
2. Go full dumb ass and not have flight in the expac (like they intended with WoD)
3. Have the achievement able to be completed at launch
4. Flight enabled with the first content patch
5. Flight being able to be purchased at max level
6. Flight purchasable at the in game store for 50 bucks.

I am fine with 3-6 personally.

I find that not having flight at max level doesn't make the game more immersive or engaging it just adds to the tedium.

Riding through a zone for the 20th time no different then the previous 19, dealing with WoWs horrible collision mechanics, and trash mobs so tightly packed you have little choice but to engage them even though they offer no threat challenge or reward is not engaging game play it is tedious.

Here is hoping we get a definite answer come Blizzcon.

I just want them to design the maps around flying and let us fly from the start. No bullshit, I don't feel rewarded to get back the flying ability I unlocked over 10 years ago.

[Allatar]

I will buy it, unlikely I will play beyond the first month.

If it is designed like Argus it will be the first time I would main a rogue or feral druid. Stealth past trash mobs is faster then riding past them and having to kill them even though they offer no threat challenge or reward.

You do realise that you can get crafted items that mean mobs can't daze and dismount you, right?

[Protean]

It's a forum. A place where ideas are thrown around, discussed, and argued. If you don't want to have your ideas and views challenged, then I humbly submit that you don't go to places where that's likely to happen.

Having said that: The way in which you mentioned flight was as though it was only something tacked on to just to TBC. I take issue with that, since it was part of the open world experience for TBC, WotLK, Cata, and MoP. Flight has STILL been part of the open world of the game for longer than it hasn't. This idea that flight is harmful to the game requires some pretty incredible levels of mental gymnastics and willful ignorance that I simply can't tolerate. And I will continue to fight it every time I see it posted.

If you want to say you like the grounded experience, fine. I take no issue with that. Different people like different things. But when you cross the line and suggest/imply/insinuate that flight isn't a part of WoW, then I'll cut in and argue with no hesitation. If that wasn't your intent, then I apologize. But maybe next time word your post a little better to be clear.

- - - Updated - - -



A "good balance" meaning: Flying will be treated like shit and ignored for most of the expansion. Because that's what happened.

- - - Updated - - -



As long as there was also the ability to play well and dodge the beams, or fly low so you stay under the radar, or something similar. Simply letting people fly then making flight useless because you insta-gib as soon as you mount isn't a solution.

Flight is used in literally 0% of the activities i find engaging in WoW. Always has been that way.

I don't know how engaging you find transportation, but for me it has zero impact whether i fly for 10 minutes for a long distance, or ride for 10 minutes a shorter distance. Even more so when it's disabled in literally everything minus the most boring aspect of the world.

[Flurryfang]

That is the bullshit excuse they came up with. I did see the scenery. It was nice. Now can I get my flying after 2-3 months of beautiful scenery?

And some places are better from afar. Suramar is more impressive from above then in an alleyway.

Blizzard simply sees this as unhealthy playerbehavier, that you become a robot, that is unaware of the enviroment and only looks at the mini-map for pop-ups. Grounding you forces you to navigate the enviroment, which allows blizz to create enviromental opsticles and enviromental gameplay.

I do think, that they know they made something really good with flying, but that it allowed the player to limit their overall movement way too much. This is why they go half and half with grounded and flying. They both understand players wish for flying and why it is so awesome to have, but they also want to think that making gameplay around the enviroment will make them and players more happy.

...Personally, i don't know why they just don't make gamplay around flying and limit your flying abilties in a natural way instead of just shutting off flying for the new zones.

[Deleted]

Legion's flying model should do just fine.
Or have it available at max level with just more work to unlock it. That if they can actually implement some actualy fun way to do it .. finding 1000 treasures isn't fun or interesting.
Having it unlocked at launch and available right from the start to level .. might as well just have an open area filled with mobs and berries and a quest to kill 2000 mobs and gather 200 berries and call it a day.