Active shooter on Las Vegas strip.

[Ghostpanther]

What we are talking about here is a choice.


We can choose to lose some of our liberty in order to somewhat limit guns.

or

We can choose to limit our liberty in order to give up our privacy through massively increased security screening.


One impacts a small number of people in a limited way.

The other impacts everyone, all the time, pretty much everywhere.


Do we just give on a few of our more advanced weapons platforms? Or do we submit to full body scans every time we enter any building of significant size.? How many times per day are you willing to be irradiated in order to keep all your weapons?

Or we can choose to make Bump Stocks illegal or not have concerts situated like that one was or have more security levels in high rise hotels close to events like that one.

[Orbitus]

The perp has been identified, and is not a muslim. Most likely a leftie with violent tendencies.

And this one too. Since there has been no information given about his background. And all of the terrorist attacks that weren't Muslim since 2001, have been RIGHT WING terrorist attacks.

[Ghostpanther]

My point is clear, you have to choose between a massive security apparatus that is massively invasive all the time.......or give up a few guns.

But those are not the only options.

[Wiyld]

Or we can choose to make Bump Stocks illegal or not have concerts situated like that one was or have more security levels in high rise hotels close to events like that one.

Thats what I said...so you would choose to go through a TSA style line, go through body scanners, the whole deal, everytime you walked into a tall building.

How the hell does that make any degree of rational sense.


And 'dont have any events where people gather outside near tall buildings'? Really?? Like you mean any busy city anywhere? lol how does that even work?

[petej0]

So you saying we should just bow our heads, *shrug and say, shit like this is gonna happen? How about not having concerts out in the opening with high rise buildings not too far away to give opportunities for shitheads like him to do it again?

Who said anything about bowing our heads? While there is only so much you can do cost effectivly, in a free society you do have an element of "shit like this is gonna happen". As long as you can buy dangerous items in stores and make homemade pipe bombs, bombs, purchase firearms, automobiles, knives, chemicals you are bound to have shit like this go down. You cant protect everything, you cant put security stations in malls during Christmas time because some idiot may walk in with a bomb vest on and walk into a crowd and kill himself. You cant put security guards on buses to check people getting on for pipe bombs. You cant put barricades around school bus stops to protect kids from a maniac in a car.

[Wiyld]

But those are not the only options.

You havnt actually provided any viable options.... sure make bump stock sillegal...thats a start...but thats it? just those?

[Lahis]

That bump stock is hilarious legal loophole.

"His finger is pressing trigger for every shot. It is semi-automatic!"

[Ghostpanther]

Thats what I said...so you would choose to go through a TSA style line, go through body scanners, the whole deal, everytime you walked into a tall building.

How the hell does that make any degree of rational sense.


And 'dont have any events where people gather outside near tall buildings'? Really?? Like you mean any busy city anywhere? lol how does that even work?

Yeah. That could easily be done. Does not have to be 10's of miles away. We have concerts that big here in Ohio out where there are not high rise buildings close enough to make a scenario like that possible.

[Orbitus]

I -read- that the perp is an antifa supporter. I said so in an earlier post.

Then you should -read- real websites not bullshit conspiracy theorist ones.

[Ghostpanther]

That bump stock is hilarious legal loophole.

"His finger is pressing trigger for every shot. It is semi-automatic!"

I agree. There is no way those should be legal for private citizens.

[Wiyld]

Yeah. That could easily be done. Does not have to 10's of miles away. We have concerts that big here in Ohio out where there are not high rise buildings close enough to make a scenario like that possible.

Yeah you do have concerts that big in ohio, you also have tons and tons of events downtown. I lived in Columbus for 10 years, there are events all the time...so I guess we make it illegal for groups to congregate in cities....there isnt anywhere in the downtown area you can be that isn't in range of a tall building.

So no Red White and Boom, no Jazz festival, none of that stuff they do in Columbus, sorry all those events will have to be moved 30-45 mins outside of the downtown area in order to find space that doesn't have any tall buildings nearby.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

My point is clear, you have to choose between a massive security apparatus that is massively invasive all the time.......or give up a few guns.

No I get what you are saying. But all I was saying was in response to someone commenting that had the shooter been on the ground instead of their elevated position they wouldn't have been able to hurt as many people, and I was simply mentioning that there would also have been more security present. Just a basic observation.

So what basically happened was I said 'concerts have more security than the average hotel room' and you launch into a discussion about liberty and how invasive security protocols should be. I mean I see what you're getting at, tying it to a simple observation of the basic fact that 'concerts have security' just seemed odd.

[Ghostpanther]

You havnt actually provided any viable options.... sure make bump stock sillegal...thats a start...but thats it? just those?

I did provide at least one and you admitted it was one. lol!

[Wiyld]

I did provide at least one and you admitted it was one. lol!

So you are essentially agreeing with me that we need to control some of these weapons then?



and to be clear....I provided it.

[Ghostpanther]

Yeah you do have concerts that big in ohio, you also have tons and tons of events downtown. I lived in Columbus for 10 years, there are events all the time...so I guess we make it illegal for groups to congregate in cities....there isnt anywhere in the downtown area you can be that isn't in range of a tall building.

So no Red White and Boom, no Jazz festival, none of that stuff they do in Columbus, sorry all those events will have to be moved 30-45 mins outside of the downtown area in order to find space that doesn't have any tall buildings nearby.

So just wait and see if it will happen again? Or take steps to help prevent it with out infringing on the rights of the people to exercise their Constitutional rights to arm themselves. I would rather take the second option.

[TITAN308]

You need a licence to drive a car, why not for gun ownership too?

This is a fallacy.

You take a test for a drivers license one single time at age 16 and never have to take another test again even if you live to 95 years old.

[Ghostpanther]

So you are essentially agreeing with me that we need to control some of these weapons then?



and to be clear....I provided it.

Oh I do agree about the Bump Stock and I actually thanked you for providing that correction and info.

[TITAN308]

The flaw in that logic is that firearms are only meant for killing.

Yet cars kill about the same amount of people a year. Imagine that. A product not meant to hurt people, is killing/hurting people at about the same rate as a product designed to directly inflict harm.

Lets put that in perspective.

There are about 253+ million cars on US Roads.

There are about 400+ million guns in US circulation.

Yet somehow cars are hurting people in similar numbers.

Clearly we have a car problem.

[Wiyld]

So just wait and see if it will happen again? Or take steps to help prevent it with out infringing on the rights of the people to exercise their Constitutional rights to arm themselves. I would rather take the second option.

So instead we take steps to infringe on their right to assemble peacefully? Or take steps to infringe on their right against illegal search?


Thats what I'm saying man, something will give here. You WILL lose something. Choose. Either give on some of these weapons...I'm not calling for a gun ban, give on some of it. Or give massively in other areas.

[Daelak]

That bump stock is hilarious legal loophole.

"His finger is pressing trigger for every shot. It is semi-automatic!"

I am sure there is a rational, 2nd amendment loving reason why he had 43 firearms. Just as I am sure there is a rational, patriot-loving reason for a bump stock being legal.