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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    After, when he beat Cairne and successfully waged war on the Alliance.
    A war that beyond some initial successes never really went anywhere and ultimately ended with his defeat isn't what i'd call successfull.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    A war that beyond some initial successes never really went anywhere and ultimately ended with his defeat isn't what i'd call successfull.
    Old God influence doesn't count.

    He took Ashenvale from the Alliance and made that wood Horde's lumber mill, something Thrall could not do.

    He also destroyed Theramore and under his rule the Forsaken took all of Lordaeron.

    The war was going pretty good.

  3. #123
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Yeah I don't understand why people try and apply human morality to a primitive faction of monsters.
    For all their morality humans are often much worse. So it makes sense.

  4. #124
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiraser View Post
    Title says it all.

    I feel like this was supposed to justify the claim/question made in the title... but it totally fell flat.


    #19: Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating. - Pixar

    That also applies to supernatural help. Additionally it makes for a boring story. Unless of course the story is about a quest to get said supernatural help/weapon.
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2017-10-03 at 05:26 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Old God influence doesn't count.
    You're just going to ignore that he was already losing the war before that even got involved, aren't you? Alienating his former allies was a big part of that.


    And the victory in Lordaeron was Sylvanas', not Garrosh's. He had very little to do with that campaign and she mostly won by ignoring his orders.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    a couple of mistakes:
    - Thrall was his mentor
    - he was the one who wanted to rule everything

    No garrosh was not a hero.
    Garrosh wanted to bring prosperity to his people, the Horde. But all his allies betrayed him, which forced him to retaliate. He's very much a hero. A tragic one.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Garrosh wanted to bring prosperity to his people, the Horde. But all his allies betrayed him, which forced him to retaliate. He's very much a hero. A tragic one.
    Nah. History is written by the victors...guess what he lost :P:P

    But for real. Prosperity he committed mass murder. ( theramore ring any bells?). And yes alliance also did horrible things. But he was way worse then any other warchief.
    Just look at his track record with pissing people off and doing bad stuff. Just read his wiki.....

  8. #128
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Garrosh wanted to bring prosperity to his people, the Horde. But all his allies betrayed him, which forced him to retaliate. He's very much a hero. A tragic one.
    Turns out that when your entire people to hate them, even your own race to hate you, it doesn't end well.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  9. #129
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Turns out that when your entire people to hate them, even your own race to hate you, it doesn't end well.
    To be fair, those 90% of orcs who didn't support garrosh were either invisible or camouflaged so you can't blame him for not noticing that.

  10. #130
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    To be fair, those 90% of orcs who didn't support garrosh were either invisible or camouflaged so you can't blame him for not noticing that.
    The peonage didn't support him - neither did the Warlocks or pretty much anyone of note in the Cleft of Shadows. Of the marquee Orcish NPC's Thrall, Eitrigg, and Saurfang the Elder also didn't support him. Garrosh's only supporters were the Kor'kron (the honor guard of the Warchief) and his other "True Horde" sycophants.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  11. #131
    The Lightbringer Archmage Alodi's Avatar
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    Hitler did nothing wrong either.
    THE HORDE WILL ENDURE
    THE HORDE IS STRONG!

  12. #132
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The peonage didn't support him - neither did the Warlocks or pretty much anyone of note in the Cleft of Shadows. Of the marquee Orcish NPC's Thrall, Eitrigg, and Saurfang the Elder also didn't support him. Garrosh's only supporters were the Kor'kron (the honor guard of the Warchief) and his other "True Horde" sycophants.
    Apparently they weren't "not supporting him" hard enough.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're just going to ignore that he was already losing the war before that even got involved, aren't you? Alienating his former allies was a big part of that.


    And the victory in Lordaeron was Sylvanas', not Garrosh's. He had very little to do with that campaign and she mostly won by ignoring his orders.

    As far as I know Garrosh was Warchief, not Sylvanas.

    I like how you ignore the Ashenvale and Theramore bits, though, which are far bigger victories.

  14. #134
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    As far as I know Garrosh was Warchief, not Sylvanas.

    I like how you ignore the Ashenvale and Theramore bits, though, which are far bigger victories.
    He was warchief and all he did was to send token support to silverpine. Everything that happened in EK was under sylvanas leadership.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    He was warchief and all he did was to send token support to silverpine. Everything that happened in EK was under sylvanas leadership.

    Technically, sure. But he was still the leader of the Horde, so it's Sylvanas' victory as much as it is his. I don't see why the concept is hard to grasp. When you're the commander of the army all achievements on all fronts are yours.

  16. #136
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Technically, sure. But he was still the leader of the Horde, so it's Sylvanas' victory as much as it is his. I don't see why the concept is hard to grasp. When you're the commander of the army all achievements on all fronts are yours.
    But he didn't contribute to them. Its like saying that all of childrens achievements are their parents achievements. Even if parents were bunch of degenerate drunks and their kids cut all ties to them.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    As far as I know Garrosh was Warchief, not Sylvanas.

    I like how you ignore the Ashenvale and Theramore bits, though, which are far bigger victories.
    What victories? The Ashenvale campaign failed. Theramore achieved nothing other than making everybody who already did hate Garrosh more.

  18. #138
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    What victories? The Ashenvale campaign failed. Theramore achieved nothing other than making everybody who already did hate Garrosh more.
    Did it ? I mean even troll rebels seemed happy about theramore in 5.3.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    What victories? The Ashenvale campaign failed. Theramore achieved nothing other than making everybody who already did hate Garrosh more.
    Failed? They pushed hard into Ashenvale and had Astranaar surrounded.

    And Theramore was the biggest Alliance base in Kalimdor not Darnassus.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Failed? They pushed hard into Ashenvale and had Astranaar surrounded.
    What happened after that.

    And no, they still have it surrounded years after Garrosh died doesnt count as an answer.

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