Would the Draenei Eredar have been better on the horde?

[Beloren]

and on the horde alongside the Blood elves as the allies they were under Illidan in TFT. Things could have been different if they didn't stick to rules like each faction must get a new race or only 2 factions.

Looking at Macaree, the horde would have been awesome with both the Draenei and Blood elves on it and in fact the story fits better with them as friends - two highy intelligent races, one naturally magically adepts the other technomagically advanced- sharing the light connection too, and both races being raped by the legion's actions and betrayal by their leaders (Queen Azshara and Kil'jaeden/Archimonde)

I also think it would have been nice for the horde to have another non-elf advanced civilization, and tbh I think the Eredar Draenei fit the horde look feel better, and with the blood elves with them I think that would have been great balance.

Also do you think it wold have worked out better if they gave the alliance high elves too while the horde got blood elves and draenei? Personally I think the alliance would have been fine without any new race in TBC, and in another world maybe both goblins and elves would have been shared.

[grexly75]

Keep your smelly, grubby, greedy horde mitts off our Draenei.. Alliance got Draenei since many people wanted shamans on the Alliance side and Draenei have an affinity with the elements so that is what Blizzard decided to do..

And people also wanted Paladins on the horde side and as such the Blood Elves were given to the horde so they could have Paladins..

And Blizzard won't go changing things like this now as it would piss off a lot of people.. Let alone you are ten years too late also Blizzard up until MoP made both sides have equal amount of races..

So having one faction with more races than the other is unbalanced and unfair..

[Lochton]

Not really. I mean, the Draenei are Eradar in general.

[Deleted]

I think it makes the most sense for Draenei to be in the Alliance, as an advanced spacefaring race, would want to team up with the most technologically advanced faction which at the time was the Alliance, also keep in mind that at the time, the Blood Elves didn't draw their holy powers from the light per se, but an imprisoned Naaru something the Draenei wouldn't be fans of.

What they would be fans of however, would be how Humans and Dwarves worshipped the light, much like they themselves did.

Honestly though I would be fine with an Eredar option for the Horde and High Elf option for alliance in the next patch. I'd prefer an entirely new race though.

[Ticj]

You would have been fine with no new alliance races in TBC because you'd be playing horde anyways lol

[grexly75]

I think it makes the most sense for Draenei to be in the Alliance, as an advanced spacefaring race, would want to team up with the most technologically advanced faction , also keep in mind that at the time, the Blood Elves didn't draw their holy powers from the light per se, but an imprisoned Naaru something the Draenei wouldn't be fans of.

What they would be fans of however, would be how humans and dwarves worshipped the light, much like they themselves did.

Ahh forgot about that, since the Draenei see the Naaru as their deities so to speak they would be thoroughly pissed off at the Blood Elves for that..

- - - Updated - - -

You would have been fine with no new alliance races in TBC because you'd be playing horde anyways lol

Which shows what type of person the OP is, being the selfish if I can't have it then nobody can type..

[Deleted]

Draenei are Eredar, which have been Alliance ever since TBC.

And if we get subraces, we will prolly get redeemed Man'ari as a Draenei subrace.

Also, the reason why Alliance got Draenei and later on Worgen is because they wanted to balance the sides a bit, giving more "ugly" races to the Alliance and more "pretty" to the Horde.

[Flurryfang]

and on the horde alongside the Blood elves as the allies they were under Illidan in TFT. Things could have been different if they didn't stick to rules like each faction must get a new race or only 2 factions.

Looking at Macaree, the horde would have been awesome with both the Draenei and Blood elves on it and in fact the story fits better with them as friends - two highy intelligent races, one naturally magically adepts the other technomagically advanced- sharing the light connection too, and both races being raped by the legion's actions and betrayal by their leaders (Queen Azshara and Kil'jaeden/Archimonde)

I also think it would have been nice for the horde to have another non-elf advanced civilization, and tbh I think the Eredar Draenei fit the horde look feel better, and with the blood elves with them I think that would have been great balance.

Also do you think it wold have worked out better if they gave the alliance high elves too while the horde got blood elves and draenei? Personally I think the alliance would have been fine without any new race in TBC, and in another world maybe both goblins and elves would have been shared.

First of all, having one faction get a new race without the other getting one is not only dumb, but would have created an unbalance within the game overall.

Also, why wouild the Draenei be with the Horde? They are creatures led by the Light and none of the Horde races even had something close to the light back in TBC. There is no binding agent or race to which the Draenei could join the Horde with and why would the Alliance be their enemy? They already have the Light as a common thing, so it would just be a huge mess.

Finally: High Elfs and Blood Elfs are way too much like each other for them to be 2 different playable races.

If you rewrote the entire lore of the Draenei, gave a half of an expansion to connect the Alliance with the High elfs and put the Sunwalkers and more important Holy Priests in the Forsaken during Vanilla, you may be able to make it work with Draenei going with Horde and High Elfs going with Alliance.

[Asotcha]

I think it makes the most sense for Draenei to be in the Alliance, as an advanced spacefaring race, would want to team up with the most technologically advanced faction which at the time was the Alliance, also keep in mind that at the time, the Blood Elves didn't draw their holy powers from the light per se, but an imprisoned Naaru something the Draenei wouldn't be fans of.

What they would be fans of however, would be how Humans and Dwarves worshipped the light, much like they themselves did.

Excellently said. I'll add that they ended up being next-door neighbors with the Night Elves and started working with them early to clean up after their crash, and then they learned that the remnants of the Orcs lived just to the south, and were members of the Horde. It would have been a really hard-sell to get them to co-operate with the Orcs out of the gate even under the best of circumstances. Even though the Orcs we know today aren't all the ones who were on Dreanor when shit went sideways, it would have been way too fresh in the minds of all the Draenei.

[Deleted]

Ahh forgot about that, since the Draenei see the Naaru as their deities so to speak they would be thoroughly pissed off at the Blood Elves for that..

Exactly.

Of course one could argue that if Blizzard hadn't written the story how they did the Draenei could've fitted in nicely with the Horde, but that argument could be used in any kind of scenario, if the Orcs hadn't invaded Azeroth they could be part of the Alliance, if Dwarves had waged war against Hunand they could've joined the Horde etc.

[Beloren]

Keep your smelly, grubby, greedy horde mitts off our Draenei.. Alliance got Draenei since many people wanted shamans on the Alliance side and Draenei have an affinity with the elements so that is what Blizzard decided to do..

I think draeeni were given "affinity" with the elements because they wanted to give alliance shamans as horde got paladins - before that expansion draenei had nothing to do with shamanism, even their retcon into Eredar had nothing to do with it, it was just added to balance things out for the class distribution gaming system. OR did I get that wrong.

also I don't see having a faction have one more race as unfair, given how many people played humans and night elves, I think two races on the horde would have even'd things out especially with the pedigree of the draenei. Alas everything must be equal

[grexly75]

Excellently said. I'll add that they ended up being next-door neighbors with the Night Elves and started working with them early to clean up after their crash, and then they learned that the remnants of the Orcs lived just to the south, and were members of the Horde. It would have been a really hard-sell to get them to co-operate with the Orcs out of the gate even under the best of circumstances. Even though the Orcs we know today aren't all the ones who were on Dreanor when shit went sideways, it would have been way too fresh in the minds of all the Draenei.

Ahh yeah with what happened to them on Outland/Draenor with the Orcs there would be no way in hell that they would join a faction that had their mortal enemies among its ranks..

[Notshauna]

I've long held the opinion that race politics would be massively more interesting if you had the Forsaken join the Alliance and the Night Elves join the Horde (and through them have the Draenei join the Horde and Blood Elves the Alliance), so in that regard I think it makes the narrative more interesting. That being said it doesn't really work, as faction specific classes doesn't lead to a particularly healthy game.

Even then the best narrative direction would of been to drop the factions all together, as it allows politics to actually function.

[Asotcha]

Ahh yeah with what happened to them on Outland/Draenor with the Orcs there would be no way in hell that they would join a faction that had their mortal enemies among its ranks..

It does create a few interesting what-if scenarios though. I could see them having to settle things with the Orcs early, if their ship had landed closer and if there was some greater challenge that they had to band together for. Like, if the ship had crashed in Tanaris, then they would have been stressed for resources and mostly going off of what they already had. Then the Orcs would have been their closest neighbors to the north and their most likely trading partner/gateway to the rest of Kalimdor, unless the Draenei chose to try and deal with Un'Goro crater--more lush, but more treacherous.

edit: I realized that Thunder Bluff would also probably be just as close if not closer, but also Theramore Isle would have been closer then all of them, and a port city to boot. If Theramore wasn't in the picture though its interesting to consider.

[Beloren]

First of all, having one faction get a new race without the other getting one is not only dumb, but would have created an unbalance within the game overall.

why or how would that create an imbalance? what sort of imbalance, just cos one faction has 1 more race available to it? surely the imbalance is in the numbers, if the horde had 1 races and the alliance 4, but most people played the alliance, it imbalanced because the sides don't have the same number of players not because one has more race options.

Gameplay doesn't need each faction to have the same number of races any more than it needs each race to have the same number of players, it just needs the two sides to have equal numbers , that's it. That's how they deisgned it, this is why it doesn't matte r if you have more humans or blood elves than you have dwarves/gnomes/worgen or trolls/tauren/orcs combined - what ddifference would it have made if one more race was available to the horde it would have evened out the number imbalance faster.. Humans and night elves are huge races Draenei should have gone to the horde alongside blood elves, and if it got too heavy horde wise, offset it by allowing high elves on the alliance.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think draeeni were given "affinity" with the elements because they wanted to give alliance shamans as horde got paladins - before that expansion draenei had nothing to do with shamanism, even their retcon into Eredar had nothing to do with it, it was just added to balance things out for the class distribution gaming system. OR did I get that wrong.

also I don't see having a faction have one more race as unfair, given how many people played humans and night elves, I think two races on the horde would have even'd things out especially with the pedigree of the draenei. Alas everything must be equal

Eredar were originally just an evil race. No people like Velen hanging around and him fleeing etc etc. The ret-con essentially added more then what was taken away. Having two races on the Horde would be unfair, more players playing humans and Night Elves isn't an argument. A new expansion showing one side of a playable faction getting two new races?

That would be utterly stupid and well "Horde bias" would be legit argument.

[Beloren]

I've long held the opinion that race politics would be massively more interesting if you had the Forsaken join the Alliance and the Night Elves join the Horde (and through them have the Draenei join the Horde and Blood Elves the Alliance), so in that regard I think it makes the narrative more interesting. That being said it doesn't really work, as faction specific classes doesn't lead to a particularly healthy game.

Even then the best narrative direction would of been to drop the factions all together, as it allows politics to actually function.

that could have worked, afterall, Sylvannas breaking free of the Lich king's control and then freeing others was a major boost for the good guys.. but back then the concept of dark magic users being good wasn't a common practice, dark magic meant evil, but since then shadow priests, warlocks, death knights and ofc originally demon hunters have all blurred that and made it for more common than it should be. They so scared to make a player race or faction outright evil?

didn't swtor do that with the sith empire managing to get a clear distinction or dividing line and yet much nuance too, as not everyone in the Empire is evil thought its leaders mostly are

[grexly75]

I think draeeni were given "affinity" with the elements because they wanted to give alliance shamans as horde got paladins - before that expansion draenei had nothing to do with shamanism, even their retcon into Eredar had nothing to do with it, it was just added to balance things out for the class distribution gaming system. OR did I get that wrong.

also I don't see having a faction have one more race as unfair, given how many people played humans and night elves, I think two races on the horde would have even'd things out especially with the pedigree of the draenei. Alas everything must be equal

As above the Draenei would not have joined the horde not when their mortal enemies the Orcs were part of the horde, or did you forget that bit.. And no it would not have evened things out it would have made it unbalanced..

In Vanilla each side had four playable races.. Burning Crusade added one race to each side to make it five and Calaclysm added another race to each side to make it six then in MoP came a players choice of faction race with the Pandaren..

Now if Blizzard followed your idea and thank goodness they did not, then the Horde would of have had eight races and the Alliance six.. And you see that as fair do you?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

that could have worked, afterall, Sylvannas breaking free of the Lich king's control and then freeing others was a major boost for the good guys.. but back then the concept of dark magic users being good wasn't a common practice, dark magic meant evil, but since then shadow priests, warlocks, death knights and ofc originally demon hunters have all blurred that and made it for more common than it should be. They so scared to make a player race or faction outright evil?

didn't swtor do that with the sith empire managing to get a clear distinction or dividing line and yet much nuance too, as not everyone in the Empire is evil thought its leaders mostly are

There was a typical KOTR decision making system(Light and Dark side). Seriously do you think about what you say before you type?

[Flurryfang]

why or how would that create an imbalance? what sort of imbalance, just cos one faction has 1 more race available to it? surely the imbalance is in the numbers, if the horde had 1 races and the alliance 4, but most people played the alliance, it imbalanced because the sides don't have the same number of players not because one has more race options.

Gameplay doesn't need each faction to have the same number of races any more than it needs each race to have the same number of players, it just needs the two sides to have equal numbers , that's it. That's how they deisgned it, this is why it doesn't matte r if you have more humans or blood elves than you have dwarves/gnomes/worgen or trolls/tauren/orcs combined - what ddifference would it have made if one more race was available to the horde it would have evened out the number imbalance faster.. Humans and night elves are huge races Draenei should have gone to the horde alongside blood elves, and if it got too heavy horde wise, offset it by allowing high elves on the alliance.

The players would not accept it, people one the side would fewer races would feel betrayed and you would lose a butload of players, while also having alot of angry players stay. Aside from that, don't underrestemate how bad it is to see an imbalance between races on the character creation screen. People, in general, don't like things which are not matched and having a character creation screen with an 4 on 1 side and 5 on the other will just not look good and that has an effect too.

Symmetry is quite important when you have 2 sides that are supposed to be equal from the start-point.

I think that are actually wrong in both your statements here: I don't think the game needs to have equal numbers on both sides, but when it comes to options and the number of races, i think it have to be if you want players to split between the two factions. Your game can work quite well with a 30/70 split between the factions, aslong as it is all becasue of taste and not because the value put in the factions seems different from the point of the dev. And that will happend if you give 1 faction something that is not also given to the other.

Just look at how some people reacted when the Alliance got a cinematic in 7.2 and the Horde did not. That is a tini tiny amount of content, so just think about if Blizz added a new race, in your example 2, with a new culture and new starting zones following with the addition, while giving nothing else to the other. People would tear Blizz a new one.

Edit: There is a big reason why Blizzard and pretty much every MMO ever made who has 2 factions, does it like this. It simply works and puts up the apperance to the soon-to-be player, that no matter which side they choose, they are not being given less.