1. #2761
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    This is you being wrong AGAIN. I don't want to own a gun. I don't own a gun. I've never fired one. I've never held one. I don't have a desire to ever even be near one. I'd rather keep my distance, thanks.

    I'm not claiming to know exactly what the founding fathers meant. I making a logical deduction based on the facts that we have around that time period. They had rifles, pistols, and cannons. Guess what's legal in the US? Rifles, pistols, and cannons. What's not legal? Things that are not rifles, pistols, and cannons... So you're entire point about "right to bear arms" means everything including "death stars and light sabers" is clearly dead fucking wrong.
    Logical deduction would merit you understanding that if they meant firearm they would have used the word firearm. Same reason they used Creator instead of God.....because they meant Creator and not God. The Bfs weren't so stupid they didn't know what words to use.

    And even if you are right, then that means they certainly didn't mean the right to the weapons we have now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanknasty View Post
    And where did you see me pledge allegiance to The Donald? Typical...you disagree with the left on something and you instantly become a Trump supporter. Well done.
    Yeah, cause that's been your only post......

  2. #2762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Logical deduction would merit you understanding that if they meant firearm they would have used the word firearm. Same reason they used Creator instead of God.....because they meant Creator and not God. The Bfs weren't so stupid they didn't know what words to use.

    And even if you are right, then that means they certainly didn't mean the right to the weapons we have now.

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    Yeah, cause that's been your only post......
    Techincally arms can mean a whole lot of weapons. I'd prefer looser sword/axe laws. They're useful(axes in more situations than swords) and are far better for ornamentation than most guns. not to mention, it's way harder to kill 50 people with a sword/axe than a gun.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  3. #2763
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    It IS an epidemic. This graphic has become a meme at this point

    And the only cynical behaviour is to move on as if nothing happened. Again. And again. And again. And again.

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/f...uns-and-death/
    In 2012, countries across Europe averaged 30 homicides per 1 million, soooo people still kill each other even without guns? Granted, most of that number is getting skewed by Russia - 102 homicides per million.

    Russia has more than twice the homicide rate as the U.S. (42/M to 102/M) but only has a 1/10th the number of guns (per capita) that the U.S. has. Russia 8 guns per 100 people, the U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people. Some how folks in Russia are still killing each other at more than twice the rate that folks in the U.S. are.

  4. #2764
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    In 2012, countries across Europe averaged 30 homicides per 1 million, soooo people still kill each other even without guns? Granted, most of that number is getting skewed by Russia - 102 homicides per million.
    I'd like to see someone with a hatchet kill 59 people and wound hundreds more in 10 minutes.

  5. #2765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I'd like to see someone with a hatchet kill 59 people and wound hundreds more in 10 minutes.
    But then we'd have to establish hatchet free zones, areas where the criminals can rest assured that no one else has a hatchet so they may act with impunity, except for when there's a good guy with a hatchet.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  6. #2766
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanknasty View Post
    Conspiracy theories? Lol what the fuck? Pulled that one out of left field eh?
    You rail against CNN, saying they are fake news, and only people that state that bullshit, believe anyone and everyone, including unsourced conspiracy theories, oh and Donald Trump. Because the Orange Clown is the ultimate dumbass.

  7. #2767
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    And gun nuts when crazy over the idea of AR-15 being banned...

    Seems like a justified ban to me.
    And this is why you will never get anywhere.

    You feel the need to insult everyone who owns an AR-15 or voices a different opinion than yours in one giant brush.

    So let me know how it goes champ.

    Don't worry though, the right wing is just as guilty of this type of thing just different subjects.

  8. #2768
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    And this is why you will never get anywhere.

    You feel the need to insult everyone who owns an AR-15 or voices a different opinion than yours in one giant brush.

    So let me know how it goes champ.
    A gun that can so easily be turned into fully automatic does not belong in the hands of civilians.

  9. #2769
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    A gun that can so easily be turned into fully automatic does not belong in the hands of civilians.
    And a car that can travel faster than 75mph shouldn't be either. Again, let me know how it goes.

  10. #2770
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    That's not a limit on the second amendment. That's a limit created BY the second amendment. Because nukes aren't included as "a right to bear arms". It's in reference to similar weaponry to the time period it was written.
    So you are saying that the only civilian weaponry that should be allowed is flintlock pistols and rifles?

    Sure.

    Now lets get on with it and get rid of the rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  11. #2771
    Quote Originally Posted by bamf775 View Post
    You are from the EU or UK correct?
    Australia /10 chars

  12. #2772
    Quote Originally Posted by imabanana View Post
    There was a "good guy with a gun" in this case, the one who got into the hotel through employee entrance, and ended up confusing police a lot by making them believe he was another shooter.
    The band playing there were a load of 2nd amendment types. They had guns with them though they were not armed up on stage. They could do diddly squat about the shooter. One of them has admitted that and now done a 180 degree U-turn and endorsed gun control.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/..._shooting.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  13. #2773
    Do you guys really think you have a Gotcha! moment when someone states they couldn't handle a rifle shooter from 32 stories up with their pistol?

    I mean really?


    lol well ok then

  14. #2774
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    And a car that can travel faster than 75mph shouldn't be either. Again, let me know how it goes.
    False equivalence.

    You cool with people owning bazookas?

  15. #2775
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    False equivalence.

    You cool with people owning bazookas?
    Bazookas cannot not be purchased over the counter. They require ATF approval for an individual to own. (or specifically each piece of munitions is considered a Destructive Device and requires a $200 tax stamp and approval)

    So your attempt backfired I'm afraid.

    I do find it ironic that you try to claim I made a fallacy while making such an old one yourself. (whats next? the good old nuclear bomb straw man?)

    I see, like most people, you didn't actual comment on why we are allowed to have cars that travel upwards of 160mph. What purpose to society does it serve? Does it enhance society? Make it safer? More dangerous?
    Last edited by TITAN308; 2017-10-04 at 12:58 AM.

  16. #2776
    So, I guess there was a second shooter? Some interesting analysis of video shot during the incident seems to confirm multiple automatic systems(guns). Based on audio, and video.

  17. #2777
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Bazookas cannot not be purchased over the counter. They require ATF approval for an individual to own. (or specifically each piece of munitions is considered a Destructive Device and requires a $200 tax stamp and approval)

    So your attempt backfired I'm afraid.

    I do find it ironic that you try to claim I made a fallacy while making such an old one yourself. (whats next? the good old nuclear bomb straw man?)

    I see, like most people, you didn't actual comment on why we are allowed to have cars that travel upwards of 160mph. What purpose to society does it serve? Does it enhance society? Make it safer? More dangerous?
    No, no it didn't.

    Cars and guns are not analogous. Guns and bazookas are. If you think people should have high powered guns because they can have cars that do over 75, then following your own "logic" you should be ok with people owning bazookas.

    So, stop trying to dick around and change the argument to whatever you want and tell us why people should be allowed to have bazookas. Again, it is your logic.

  18. #2778
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    No, no it didn't.

    Cars and guns are not analogous. Guns and bazookas are. If you think people should have high powered guns because they can have cars that do over 75, then following your own "logic" you should be ok with people owning bazookas.

    So, stop trying to dick around and change the argument to whatever you want and tell us why people should be allowed to have bazookas. Again, it is your logic.
    Did you just try and claim something is not analogous then go on to say a gun and a bazooka are? lmao

    That is like saying a cessna plane and a spaceship are analogous by your logic. Because you know, both have wings.

    Maybe you need to back up and understand context in regards to a gun and 75+ car comparison.

    Someone made a comment about PURPOSE TO SOCIETY. That is why the comparison was made. Again, NO ONE has told me the purpose to society for a vehicle that travels faster than 75mph (that is not a medical/police/response vehicle)

    Edit: You know, what don't bother. I know your posting history. Lets save us both the time and energy.
    Last edited by TITAN308; 2017-10-04 at 01:29 AM.

  19. #2779
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Did you just try and claim something is not analogous then go on to say a gun and a bazooka are? lmao

    That is like saying a cessna plane and a spaceship are analogous by your logic. Because you know, both have wings.

    Maybe you need to back up and understand context in regards to a gun and 75+ car comparison.

    Someone made a comment about PURPOSE TO SOCIETY. That is why the comparison was made. Again, NO ONE has told me the purpose to society for a vehicle that travels faster than 75mph (that is not a medical/police/response vehicle)

    Edit: You know, what don't bother. I know your posting history. Lets save us both the time and energy.
    Wait, what the fuck?

    You compared high powered guns to a car that goes over 75 with a straight fucking face and pretend like I'm crazy for comparing a high powered gun and a bazooka?

    Are you fucking serious?

    You cannot be.

  20. #2780
    I think the "right equivalence" to make is

    A) a totally legal semi automatic weapon
    B) the exact same legal semi automatic weapon, modded cheaply into being full automatic, now illegal

    There are several problems with this. First, the "philisophical" one: Why is A protected by the 2nd Ammendment and B is not? Seems totally arbitrary to me. Because B is too dangerous? You can kill a whole SWAT unit with weapon A without having to change the clip (up to 30 bullets in one clip, and while some states have laws concerning extended clip sizes, they do not seem to be strict and sometimes only apply to sales in the state, so you can bring your 30-bullet-clip with you just fine).

    It does not make any sense. Why is a weapon capable of firing 30 bullets in short bursts without reloading "not very dangerous" but modding it into being able to fire all 30 without releasing the trigger suddenly makes it "far too dangerous"? This is where the nuclear or bazooka equivalency comes from...because the difference between A and B seems incredibly small.

    Second, there are MANY practical problems. How is police or any kind of security supposed to tell in an instant if a semi automatic weapon is legal or illegally modded? By taking it apart? Firing it? Both are not options you can use at a fast checkpoint in a hotel lobby. If modding semi automatics is very easy and cheap....what worth does the law even have? From a practical standpoint the only thing that makes sense is banning anything that look like it could be an automatic weapon. That's the only way you can empower police/security to actually check on them.

    Having all that said....no law will ever stop an unsuspicious, wealthy citizen who has the mental capacity to plan such an act from getting his hands on an automatic weapon. Even in europe you can get an automatic rifle if you really want to and have the resources - but the whole cultural difference will make it much more likely you are detected when trying to move it around.

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