Should blizzard break DBM?

[Eurhetemec]

WoW has visual overload and DBM helps mitigate that a ton for a lot of us.

Yeah. It's always been one of WoW's biggest problems. That and the designed raid bosses so all the melee spend most of their time whacking a pair of feet, and even range often can barely see the top of the model. All of which makes telegraphing moves and so on pretty tricky from a design standpoint, especially combined with the general visual clutter.

[cqwrteur]

I would love if they broke all addons and then gave us an actually effective and customizable base UI and a built-in damage meter.

I don't want any BASE UI addons. Stop representing other player like me.

That being said, if they did that people would just use outside programs to do the same thing, sadly.

Their base UI addons did the same thing and even worse. Just as LFG system

[Ausr]

Oh joy, I would love having very fun Vanilla style mechanics again...

[cqwrteur]

Oh joy, I would love having very fun Vanilla style mechanics again...

Vanilla style mechanics. LOL. They have removed ALL vanilla content. This game is WoW2 now. Vanilla style mechanics will NEVER appear in retail again. Deal with it.

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Funny when ppl are talking about vanilla, they don't understand vanilla and legion are two different games and not even comparable.

[Deleted]

For the next expansion and going forward how would you guys feel if DBM was broken (any addon that helps with a raid fight) and the mechanics were adjusted knowing that players dont have this mod? Nothing overly complicated like mythic raids have been but something legit challenging yet fun.

you do realize topguilds already play the game this way and make their own timers which then evolves into dbm releases?

[Noblebanned]

For the next expansion and going forward how would you guys feel if DBM was broken (any addon that helps with a raid fight) and the mechanics were adjusted knowing that players dont have this mod? Nothing overly complicated like mythic raids have been but something legit challenging yet fun.

I think your fucking brain is broken

[Deleted]

You are one of those spammers and should be banned permanently.

What? did you silly forgot to turn something on today? you can just rightclick and ignore/report somebody you dont need an addon for that.

[B]act dishonestly or unfairly

neither does dbm or big wigs do aka you dont understand cheating.

That isn't my point though, what makes it worse is that it's MANDATORY.

Its not.

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Why do you think it's okay that you should be forced to install an addon to do some raids?

as long as you are not in the mythic race you can always make your own group and raid without it....

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Why do you think it's okay that you are forced to install Blizzard addons to do any wow content?

silly not able to distinguish between the game and addons.

[Magnagarde]

Back in the day many people went out of their way to keep strategies a secret. Right now many people go out of their way to make it easier for others to raid. It is the only difference.

[Deleted]

I play on Elysium. Deal with it. BTW, vanilla wow has the full access towards any APIs.

so you play the FAKE vanilla version, good for you.
but thinking you know anything about vanilla because of that makes you look stupid.

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You are! According to statistic, 99% of vanilla players don't play this game any more.

Nice now you make statistics up.

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Funny when ppl are talking about vanilla, they don't understand vanilla and legion are two different games and not even comparable.

funny when private server nubs cant understand evolution of a game and claim it was better back in then which they never experienced and never will.
but go on Mr. Edgy PrivateServer....

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You're telling me it's not mandatory huh...

And I still wait on the link to your #10 myathic race char.
Oh you dont take part in that? then I stand by my opinion that you dont need dbm/bw to raid.

[Onikaroshi]

What in the hell is with this recent circle jerk of breaking addons, break dbm, break dps/heal meters, etc. These are things we've had for going on 13 years, Big Wigs existed in VANILLA. We had threat meters, boss mods, healbot, heal meters, dps meters, powerauras, etc. Blizzard has adapted to these things, they could have killed them back then if they didn't like them, god knows they broke a lot of real cheesy ones. To break them now though? That's just asinine, and it's not happening.

But if they did, people would find a way around it, they always do, FFXIV doesn't have any addons but you can get boss timers working through a third party.

[Emerald Archer]

No offense, but they shouldn't cater to people like you, overrall the game should be harder in my opinion.

I understand dbm makes it better, and there should be more options for you. no addon should be mandatory to do anything in game, like DBM currently is.

If you remove DBM, raids would be made easier. Difficulty overall would remain the same, or become easier. It wouldn't go up.

[Eurhetemec]

No offense, but they shouldn't cater to people like you, overrall the game should be harder in my opinion.

I understand dbm makes it better, and there should be more options for you. no addon should be mandatory to do anything in game, like DBM currently is.

You can't really say "no offense", then say something offensive. That's like "I'm not a racist but... [incredibly racist statement]".

I mean, the game should and does cater to a wide variety of players. It's better for it. It's not like Squishy Tia is being lazy, is it? He/she has put an incredible amount of effort into making WoW playable for him/her. Much more than you have, I guarantee it. He/she isn't trying to get in on your Mythic raiding crew, dude, so lose the 'tude, I'd say.

If you remove DBM, raids would be made easier. Difficulty overall would remain the same, or become easier. It wouldn't go up.

Yep. It's strange that he doesn't get this, given it's been discussed repeatedly.

[The7]

Sure, why not. Make a pool!

[Charge me Doctor]

DBM is hardly a big offender here. Seeing boss announcements in a different way is nice customization option, just as seeing timings for boss abilities. It's crap that draws circles on the floor, arrows between nameplates and in general does stuff for player (Star Augur) is what creates problems, not DBM in general.

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If you remove DBM, raids would be made easier. Difficulty overall would remain the same, or become easier. It wouldn't go up.

I don't see how removal of DBM would make blizzard make raids easier, they already implemented a lot of basic DBM stuff into boss fights. DBM just allows you to make your own announcements and also adds useful timers. These things aren't required, but it helps those who want to get better - to get better.
Also if your answer is to just "break" DBM - weak auras will just take its place

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I just thought I'd throw this into the ring for what it's worth:

I'm half blind, half deaf, and have a deformed right arm. I use a playstation controller and mouse to play WoW because of that. My good eye is still nearsighted, so I use a 46" TV to play on (sadly still 1080p due to lack of funds that have to go to a new AVR currently). DBM lets me get information on my screen where I need it and when I need it. I still need to learn to configure it better though, as some messages block my view tremendously, but that's on me for not having learned to do so yet.

To give you an idea of what it's like to see with one eye and have to focus during a raid, I've put this picture into the post. When you're literally stuck with tunnel vision because of one eye and being focused on something, getting that info in a timely manner helps a ton, and DBM is wonderful for that.

Now, it isn't literally that bad, but close to it (I suck at photoshop filters and my stick figure "art" gets an F in stick figure class, so sue me...)

WoW has visual overload and DBM helps mitigate that a ton for a lot of us.

For the love of god, turn on raid frames, no sane person would EVER use these frames

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I would love if they broke all addons and then gave us an actually effective and customizable base UI and a built-in damage meter.

That being said, if they did that people would just use outside programs to do the same thing, sadly.

That's how it works - they allow addons, and shove the most popular addons into the base game. It ranges from most of our UI stuff like raid frames or loot tables to a LFG system

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You're telling me it's not mandatory huh... i dare you to raid mythic without DBM or any addons, still dodging questions. I'm here all night.

People in mythic raids hardly use DBM, they have programmers writing addons on the fly for them. DBM created for mass, mostly for casuals. It also eases job of raid announcer (you know, the guy who used to tell midfight who should do what, remind what shit comes in next 5 seconds etc? Yeah, that sucks balls, i'll take DBM over doing that crap again and being blamed by some tunnel-visioning rogue that i suck at doing damage, because i have to what the fuck other 39 raid members are doing)

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so you play the FAKE vanilla version, good for you.
but thinking you know anything about vanilla because of that makes you look stupid.

It is kinda scary that some really people think that emulated version of classic resembles classic wow, especially considering that most values (health, damage, exp, drop rates, etc) mangos guys, wowemu developer, delphiemu, wowwow, runwow, yawe hardly got from sniffers, but from the ceiling instead. Each of them from their own ceilings because work of sniffers was costly and emulator developers (back in time) did poor job at version control

[Emerald Archer]

I don't see how removal of DBM would make blizzard make raids easier, they already implemented a lot of basic DBM stuff into boss fights. DBM just allows you to make your own announcements and also adds useful timers. These things aren't required, but it helps those who want to get better - to get better.

I don't think dbm should be removed at all, but yes, removing DBM would make fights easier, as Blizzard would design the raids to be more simple.

Flat removing DBM would increase difficulty of mythic encounters, that part is undebatable.
And because of that, Blizz would design fights to be easier, overall likely easier to the player than when dbm existed.

But it can't be said for sure.

[Halicia]

That's how it works - they allow addons, and shove the most popular addons into the base game. It ranges from most of our UI stuff like raid frames or loot tables to a LFG system

Don't forget the calendar and event scheduling.

[digichi]

you could certainly raid without DBM... after the first 10 pulls, you usually start internally mapping/clocking the time between different abilities, paying more attention to the visual cast/cast bar of abilities, using your raid group as a safety line (when ppl are paying more attention than you), training yourself to check your debuffs periodically, manually.. if you're tanking, you keep the other tank on focus to monitor their stacks or whatever...


that being said
it would be mentally exhausting with the major positioning/movement/dps/hps/requirements + all the spicey,punishing mechanics that are jumbled in there.
dbm is just a nice safety net so that you get the hang of the boss after the first 2-5 pulls rather than the first 10+ pulls lol.

would they get rid of it? probably not.. itd be hard to imagine the game without it at this point :s

[The Man in Room V]

I would love it if they broke DBM. It's like one football team getting a copy of the other team's playbook and being allowed to use it like an open-book test.

People have just grown so accustomed to using DBM that they have convinced themselves it's necessary. But if you just give it a chance, your unconscious mind will learn everything on its own and from then on you "just know" when certain things will happen and how. Personally, that is much more preferable then relying on a crutch to think for me.

[ls-]

To my knowledge, right now there's almost no special API features that DBM and BW use to do what they do, so to break these addons you need to either break all addons in raids or ban the addons themselves, like they did w/ GS in WotLK.

Breaking all addons is a bad solution, moreover it just means that ACT will come to WoW and no that much will change, it's 2017 and not 2004, there's plenty of people whose job is to reverse, hack, write software for games.

Addon bans are easy to overcome on a smaller scale, so no serious raiding guild will be affected by them, think of in-house DBM or ERT for serious guilds, I mean, serious guilds already pay addon devs to write stuff for them, so...

[Charge me Doctor]

I don't think dbm should be removed at all, but yes, removing DBM would make fights easier, as Blizzard would design the raids to be more simple.

Flat removing DBM would increase difficulty of mythic encounters, that part is undebatable.
And because of that, Blizz would design fights to be easier, overall likely easier to the player than when dbm existed.

But it can't be said for sure.

...Or they'll implement critical features of DBM into their game, like they usually do when remove important stuff like this. They are quite big already, and big companies don't do rash decisions like "get rid of DBM and have nothing to back it up!".

Just look at what happened post-Cata, they even added boss announcements, so you won't need DBM to yell "RUNAWAY" at you, boss itself does that in more immersive way. But having DBM to be able to customize that is nice