1. #38501
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    Well I just unlocked expert roulette realizing that those two dungeons were much easier than ala mhigo and not caped on ilvl (yeah carry me!).

    I started to wonder: How hard are these extreme difficulty bosses and how hard is organized content compared to like WoW? I joined some FCs just to be without them after a short break, never really doing anything with them. I'm not confident in my skills anymore but sometimes I wonder if organized content could be easier than like Nidhogg/Susano on story mode?

    I'm in FF14 atm and still have good 2 months left payed - so I wonder, maybe I try some FC again. But I need to know the difficulties. Can you guys give me some insight?
    Now, I haven't played WoW in quite some time - since before the introduction of Mythic - but Extreme primals range, but most are what I remember would be on par to the first few bosses of any raid instance. A few mechanics and maybe one particular phase that might cause problems and you need to learn how to deal with, but overall fairly easy to understand and clear with a pug.

    Savage modes have generally been the first two floors are easily clearable by a pug, but the last two have often ramped up in difficulty. I have heard it comparable to Mythic, but I have no experience to confirm or deny that. They are easily comparable to harder Heroic fights (especially the final floor of each tier) when that was the hardest possible difficulty though. Generally there will be multiple mechanics that outright kill the player and/or wipe the party should anyone fail, and this will be accompanied by tight DPS checks (healers will be expected to DPS along with their original duties, whereas you could get away with them solely healing in Extreme Primals, even if it is highly recommended that they contribute there too).
    Last edited by The Casualty; 2017-10-04 at 05:39 PM.

  2. #38502
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    Well I just unlocked expert roulette realizing that those two dungeons were much easier than ala mhigo and not caped on ilvl (yeah carry me!).

    I started to wonder: How hard are these extreme difficulty bosses and how hard is organized content compared to like WoW? I joined some FCs just to be without them after a short break, never really doing anything with them. I'm not confident in my skills anymore but sometimes I wonder if organized content could be easier than like Nidhogg/Susano on story mode?

    I'm in FF14 atm and still have good 2 months left payed - so I wonder, maybe I try some FC again. But I need to know the difficulties. Can you guys give me some insight?
    Haven't played WoW since mid-WoD. I'd place the EX primals around the mid-Heroic level, with some of them being closer to end tier boss on heroic (Thordan EX comes to mind, perhaps Sephirot as well). Whether savage = mythic or not I'll leave to others, since I didn't/haven't participate in either (as of yet).

  3. #38503
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    I started to wonder: How hard are these extreme difficulty bosses and how hard is organized content compared to like WoW? I joined some FCs just to be without them after a short break, never really doing anything with them. I'm not confident in my skills anymore but sometimes I wonder if organized content could be easier than like Nidhogg/Susano on story mode?
    EX Primals = First half of WoW Heroic raids
    8-man Savage = Second half of WoW Heroic raids to First half of WoW Mythic raids

  4. #38504
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I think a lot of people were hoping for "savage" dungeons to be introduced.
    I'm still hoping for it. Especially tied to my Golden saucer battle arena concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I've been doing the fight wrong... I didn't realize I can just afk the fight.
    For better or worse I've personally solo'd almost every single boss in the 3 end game dungeons. PLD OP. Guard Scorpion included, so yes you could AFK this one and still get the clear if you played with me. I'd be mad at you though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I suppose I can see that. I'm a little surprised the 8 man raid, now that it's got a normal Finder version, isn't used for the story climax. Ala Mhigo being an 8 man raid concluding with Shinryu, for example.
    Yeah I think that they're SO afraid of repeating Prae/Castrum that they won't go anywhere near that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    How many trials have we gotten in HW vs ARR? I haven't thought to add it up.
    Off top of my head. There were the big 3 + Ultima. Then Levi, Mog, Ramuh, & Shiva. Then in HW we had Ravana/Bis + Thordan/Hog and the triad so 8 vs. 7 it looks like. There's also stuff like Ultros/Typhon/Gilga/Odin but that's all one and done stuff and not any different than a normal mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I suppose now that we've liberated Ala Mhigo, you could even use a gladiator arena. Wasn't Ala Mhigo more known for it than Ul'dah? Isn't that where Raubahn got the "Raging Bull" title? That would actually allow for a one time story and from then on, simply adding new challenges to the arena.
    Not a terrible idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I could see Lord of Vermillion being reconsidered. I'm not sure it gets much use. I think Triple Triad has proved more popular.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So it sounds like primarily the Gold Saucer content would be you top pick for the chopping block. I wouldn't count Diadem because that's based on hindsight of how it turned out. Some might disagree with that choice, but I can understand the basis for the sentiment.
    That's only because I think half the Golden Saucer content was CRIMINALLY used when compared to what it COULD be. Diadem itself is only truly bad because they completely fucked it twice. As standalone content it's just an embarrassing fuck up, but when you take try 1 and 2 into consideration, it's a clear issue of direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I like how Exdeath actually has an additional phase and form in Savage rather than being totally the same fight. That sort of stuff is more appealing to me wanting to do Savage at some point rather than "it's harder and the gear is better/dyeable." After doing a raid on normal, I'm just not motivated to do the harder version simply for the sake of harder + gear stats.
    Agreed. I hate normal mode with a passion because Savage exists and wish I could skip it entirely. Just like in WoW I could care less for the lower modes because they offer me absolutely nothing and would much rather just jump right in the deep end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Outside of raiding? I'd probably currently say I'd like to see more resources put over in the Squadron concept to flesh it out and do more with it (I wish I could pick my squadron & customize them like a retainer) more than the Lost Canals. We've been running them at the end of FC night and they're not as rewarding as Aquapolis felt. Nothing that drops in there seems terribly rare, so we're not getting much value from it.
    I can agree with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I kinda wonder if Diadem would be interesting if it was designed as a throw back to old school MMOs. Like you go in with a group and basically whoever tags a monster has claim to it. They get loot, others don't. You go find yourself a spot in the zone and camp it, pulling enemies. Only...if you screw up they can and will overwhelm you. And there's no leash. You have to get to certain places to escape them, resulting in the old school trains that could not only wipe your group, but other groups on the path from your location to the safe zone.

    Add in labyrthine style dungeon structures in the zone and the deeper you go the better the gear/rewards you'll find. You want to fight your way in to find a camp spot for your time there. I'd even go a little nuts and say Savage raid gear has a chance to drop from a specific mob in the deepest level. For EQ veterans, I'm talking the "Flowing Black Silk Sash" type of camping. The Unrest or Mistmoore Manor type zones that are mazes and a party of 4 have to work just to get down to that level. A mistake can have you running back to the exit, which means running through all the respawns that have come back behind you, which means a better chance of dying. If you can get down to the bottom, then you have a chance to farm a mob, waiting for it to respawn, for a CHANCE of that savage level item dropping.

    If you want to be particularly old school cruel..... along with the time limit, you could have a death limit. If the group wipes x number of times, you're out. They could even take a few of the traps and counters to them from Palace of the Dead (non dispellable buffs, but if you have items from the zone, they can counteract them, etc.).

    Outside these maze type areas, you could still have boss type monsters above ground. Rather than first tag, you could have the group that does the most damage gets extra rewards. Everyone who participates gets something, but the best reward is the top damage dealers.

    Not sure if a throw back like this would appeal to modern MMOers, but it would certainly create different content than other places.
    It still seems too Diademy if that makes any sense. I still wouldn't have much of a desire to fight over mobs like that or deal with trolls training shit just to start shit.

    I honestly don't know how to make outworld content even remotely enjoyable within the current constrains of the combat system. If it was 100% party content, you could use my old battle arena concept of hodgepodge mechanics taked onto NM models. Think like Diablo 2 rares. They could have any number of unique buffs/debuff/mechanics/triggers that would force you to adapt or die. I'd actually support your limited attempts idea in conjunction with this (I actually have always supported this idea EVEN when it bit us in the ass progressing on Algalon).

    You could even borrow from M+ here. You get put into a procedurally generated open world (complete with vertical/horizontal exploration and each "trash" pack could have random affixes to it. Maybe they drop aggro randomly. Maybe they clone themselves if not killed quickly. Maybe they boost damage/hp of nearby enemies (tanks need to split). Maybe they boost on death, or enrage at x% health (save stuns). Maybe spells actually do insane damage or drain resources (interrupts/cc important).

    Give it a time limit. Explore and find bosses and fight them. RNG could give you anywhere from easy to hard. You'd have limited attempts etc. I can dig that kinda content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Then again, I've also been very fortunate to raid 100% with people who knew each other IRL to some degree of separation. 4 of us were friends irl, then the others were a friend's guildmates who knew each other irl, and one was someone we only knew in game (and have since met irl multiple times). As the raid leader at that time, the loot arguments I had to step in on was getting tired of wasting time over "nah, you take it, I got something last time" vs "no, no, it benefits you more, you take." Ultimately, a problem any raid should be happy to have with that loot model.
    One time in ICC heroic progression all leadership was offline but me. Let's just say LOOT COUNCIL was a glorious night. I hooked up the best players with the best loot and we got kills the next week. However, I DO NOT miss being a melee role leader. That shit was tiresome. I like to just play now

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I'll agree here too. I feel like ARR dungeons had a little more punch to their power. I'd like to see that come back, at least when you first tackle them and are at the appropriate ilvl. The roulettes might need to tighten down the level sync a little more as well.
    Is it weird that I got excited to get original pharos siruis pre nerf? Most people just left though

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    They could toss in a fight similar to Valithra or whatever her name was...the green dragon "healer fight" prior to Sindragosa in ICC. Course, given the current job design in FF14, people would want PLD tanks as well for that just to dump more healing on the "boss", or to be able to heal themselves + the dps while the healer goes ham on said boss.
    That was my IRL buddy's favorite fight in wow history (he was an HPal and had top 10 world parse on that fight lol). I didn't care for it because it was just an add gauntlet and they are historically my least favorite style of fight. I think Thorim HM and Freya HM were good examples of gauntlet's done right though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    I, too, am at a bit of a loss trying to sort what a tank could do when left solo outside of "hit the cds for the tank busters". That was one thing I liked with the last 2 dungeons that were added in HW. While they largely tickled any tank over 250 ilvl, being in there just over the minimum needed made for a fun time if one of those got through unmitigated. But..yay, tankbusters, haven't seen that before, right?
    Agreed. Would definitely need to put tanks in charge of survival in order for that model to be engaging, otherwise tanks will be even more boring lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    I started to wonder: How hard are these extreme difficulty bosses and how hard is organized content compared to like WoW? I joined some FCs just to be without them after a short break, never really doing anything with them. I'm not confident in my skills anymore but sometimes I wonder if organized content could be easier than like Nidhogg/Susano on story mode?

    I'm in FF14 atm and still have good 2 months left payed - so I wonder, maybe I try some FC again. But I need to know the difficulties. Can you guys give me some insight?
    Start by sharing your experience in WoW. What did you raid and when? Once I know your skill level I can better tailor the descriptions to words that will make the most sense to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    EX Primals = First half of WoW Heroic raids
    8-man Savage = Second half of WoW Heroic raids to First half of WoW Mythic raids
    As a rough guide this is generally pretty close to accurate.

  5. #38505
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Start by sharing your experience in WoW. What did you raid and when? Once I know your skill level I can better tailor the descriptions to words that will make the most sense to you.
    I raided from vanilla to wotlk and from dragon soul to WoD. Last raid I did was Hellfire Citadel. In Vanilla got to Huhuran, tbc all up to mu'ru, got the plagued protodrake in wotlk and stopped playing around the time we cleared the first 25m hardmodes in ulduar.

    In Cata restarted during DS and got it hc clear with casual guild during 30% nerf. Next break till SoO where some old friend invited me to join their newly fused 25m raid. We cleared HC with with worldrank ~500. Another big break till HFC were I joined another new casual group and cleared HC. I refused to raid mythic and ended up with another long break (I started FF14 then).

    My problem is that I realized during wotlk&later on that I like farming more than progressing. Not reaching the top cloud was fine when I just could have some good enjoyable nights raiding. I loved Naxx25, 10m modes during WotlK, Khara in TBC. Dragon Soul with the nerfs ensuring progress... My last comeback as progress-raider gave me my final shot during SoO - Klaxxi 25m and even Garrosh were just depressing especially cause sometimes we failed killing them during "farm" resulting in re-progressing for days and sometimes weeks. Since then I declined raiding mythic (which resulted in no longer continuing with current guild) joined openraid which was also not always good experience. Taking another step down to just LFR what also failed since it was really terrible. Around that time I stopped raiding altogether.

    It's more a mental issue than a skill issue - or even rather motivational issue for joining some FC telling them "I am lazy and not really like big challenges" is problematic

  6. #38506
    I am Murloc! Usagi Senshi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Rabbit Hole
    Posts
    5,403
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    At rank 11 (840) days myself, next 3 month sub charge just around the corner apparently.

    Guess I'll need to purchase Wind-up Firion & Wild Rose Barding with achievement points.
    I was a wee bit (210 days, lol) off from the last rank myself.

    Still no Falcon mount and I've been subbed non-stop for quite a bit now. I do wonder if them needing to refresh my CC information back in July had anything to do with the delay though.
    Tikki tikki tembo, Usagi no Yojimbo, chari bari ruchi pip peri pembo!

  7. #38507
    Still no ShopTo code for my 60 day game time. Rang them up and they said it's a technical issue and should be resolved by the end of the day.

    Seriously Square next time just throw them on the Mogstation or just your own site.

  8. #38508
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    4,662
    My interest for hairstyle shown in patch 4.1 just died.

    Saw this post in Reddit, and ugh.. from behind hairstyle was nice, but front is just.. nope.

    Spoiler: 


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbotef View Post
    I was a wee bit (210 days, lol) off from the last rank myself.
    Heh, got sneaky and purchased additional game time card.

    So now my normal subscription refresh moved all the way to February and got my rank 12 veteran rewards before patch. Now all that is left is rank 13 Tantalus and rank 14 Leonhart Attire. And by the looks of it, I'll be getting those on patch day along with veteran reward changes.

  9. #38509
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    I raided from vanilla to wotlk and from dragon soul to WoD. Last raid I did was Hellfire Citadel. In Vanilla got to Huhuran, tbc all up to mu'ru, got the plagued protodrake in wotlk and stopped playing around the time we cleared the first 25m hardmodes in ulduar.

    In Cata restarted during DS and got it hc clear with casual guild during 30% nerf. Next break till SoO where some old friend invited me to join their newly fused 25m raid. We cleared HC with with worldrank ~500. Another big break till HFC were I joined another new casual group and cleared HC. I refused to raid mythic and ended up with another long break (I started FF14 then).

    My problem is that I realized during wotlk&later on that I like farming more than progressing. Not reaching the top cloud was fine when I just could have some good enjoyable nights raiding. I loved Naxx25, 10m modes during WotlK, Khara in TBC. Dragon Soul with the nerfs ensuring progress... My last comeback as progress-raider gave me my final shot during SoO - Klaxxi 25m and even Garrosh were just depressing especially cause sometimes we failed killing them during "farm" resulting in re-progressing for days and sometimes weeks. Since then I declined raiding mythic (which resulted in no longer continuing with current guild) joined openraid which was also not always good experience. Taking another step down to just LFR what also failed since it was really terrible. Around that time I stopped raiding altogether.

    It's more a mental issue than a skill issue - or even rather motivational issue for joining some FC telling them "I am lazy and not really like big challenges" is problematic
    In that case. EX Trials will likely be right up your alley. I would even go as far to say O1S->O2S as well, but I suspect you'd encounter difficulty around that. If you truly don't like the feeling of progression I would stick to EX Trials. They are just challenging enough to be fun, but don't really take more than a handful of pulls to clear with a fresh learning party. If you try them and find them easy (mind you at this point you're probably 30ilvl over what I killed them in) give O1S->O2S a night of tries and see how that scratches the itch.

    Hope that helps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    My interest for hairstyle shown in patch 4.1 just died.

    Saw this post in Reddit, and ugh.. from behind hairstyle was nice, but front is just.. nope.

    Spoiler: 


    - - - Updated - - -


    Heh, got sneaky and purchased additional game time card.

    So now my normal subscription refresh moved all the way to February and got my rank 12 veteran rewards before patch. Now all that is left is rank 13 Tantalus and rank 14 Leonhart Attire. And by the looks of it, I'll be getting those on patch day along with veteran reward changes.
    Eww jesus that's bad. Definitely not Meliadoul tho. That's Alma. Fuck man Hype dropped like 2 points off that.

  10. #38510
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    In that case. EX Trials will likely be right up your alley. I would even go as far to say O1S->O2S as well, but I suspect you'd encounter difficulty around that. If you truly don't like the feeling of progression I would stick to EX Trials. They are just challenging enough to be fun, but don't really take more than a handful of pulls to clear with a fresh learning party. If you try them and find them easy (mind you at this point you're probably 30ilvl over what I killed them in) give O1S->O2S a night of tries and see how that scratches the itch.

    Hope that helps!
    Thank you, sounds like a good plan

  11. #38511
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    My interest for hairstyle shown in patch 4.1 just died.

    Saw this post in Reddit, and ugh.. from behind hairstyle was nice, but front is just.. nope.
    I don't see anything showing the front of that ponytail hairstyle. The Chun Li buns are not that. You can kinda see the side with the braid and some in the front, but not a front on look. Unless that Au Ra male is wearing it? But that back doesn't look the same as the NPC.


    I must needs get that Shiba Inu.

  12. #38512
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    4,662
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I don't see anything showing the front of that ponytail hairstyle. The Chun Li buns are not that. You can kinda see the side with the braid and some in the front, but not a front on look. Unless that Au Ra male is wearing it? But that back doesn't look the same as the NPC.
    I was talking about the female NPC shown in patch trailer, hidden under spoiler tags.

    Looked great from behind, but once front was revealed..

    Spoiler: 

  13. #38513
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    I was talking about the female NPC shown in patch trailer, hidden under spoiler tags.

    Looked great from behind, but once front was revealed..

    Spoiler: 
    Right, but where was the front revealed? I don't see it.

  14. #38514
    Scarab Lord Anzaman's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    4,662
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Right, but where was the front revealed? I don't see it.
    Same pic, her head is slightly turned towards us, so we can see part of the front.

  15. #38515
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    Same pic, her head is slightly turned towards us, so we can see part of the front.
    She has a bow in her tail, it looks longer, and doesn't have the swoop in the front. Might be two different, but similar styles. Hold on to hope!

  16. #38516
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbotef View Post
    Still no Falcon mount and I've been subbed non-stop for quite a bit now. I do wonder if them needing to refresh my CC information back in July had anything to do with the delay though.
    I got mine today and my sub date is late in the month, like the 26th or so. So July-August-September.

  17. #38517
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbotef View Post
    I was a wee bit (210 days, lol) off from the last rank myself.

    Still no Falcon mount and I've been subbed non-stop for quite a bit now. I do wonder if them needing to refresh my CC information back in July had anything to do with the delay though.
    I just logged on a hour ago and mine was in the mail.

  18. #38518
    I finally got my hands on the floating cloud mount after a series of disasters with the European promotional campaigns. I completely forgot about the falcon mount but that was a pleasant surprise to wake up to in the mail.

  19. #38519
    I am Murloc! Usagi Senshi's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Rabbit Hole
    Posts
    5,403
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    I just logged on a hour ago and mine was in the mail.
    Sweet, I'll snag it after work then, thanks!
    Tikki tikki tembo, Usagi no Yojimbo, chari bari ruchi pip peri pembo!

  20. #38520

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •