Should blizzard break DBM?

[Trond]

I hate DBM. I thing it should be up to Blizzard to give away the mechanics, like animations, sounds, boss-voices, onscreen-text, etc.

[Deleted]

Im only fine with it, if all of the abilities will be random, nothing can be predicted. And no such an addon needed anymore.

[Noxina]

Eh, no.

Players can hardly understand the fights WITH DBM now, I doubt they will even be able to handle the simplest of mechanics if DBM and a raid leader is yelling at them what to do.

Also, fights balanced around not having DBM would quickly become rather boring tank'n spank fights. Tracking abilities (even if DBM does it with a timer for you) is what makes fights interesting. Having to line up CDs for huge windows of burst opportunities etc, it's what divides the good players from the really good players.


So, no.

[Jinpachi]

Addons have been a huge part since the beginning of wow and some even got implemented into the code. You don't need DBM, but you certainly need addons if you wanna minmax your gameplay. Taking this away is not a good idea. Because Blizzard does not ban legit addons, if the don't like a feature they remove the code that makes it happen. Like they did with the radar etc. Which means preventing DBM from displaying timers, warnings and all the other stuff would mean that a fkload of other addons would not work anymore.



People who say stuff like that usually don't even clear hc.
Raid Addons have been around since classic, so when exactly was that good ol' "paying attention time" you brag about? Besides that, every top guild and every top player uses addons like BW, DBM and/or WAs. And everyone of those players is on a skill level both of us will never achieve. Deal with it.

i was on the no.4 guild on my server. don't talk to me about what i have or haven't done in game. What i'm saying is that add-ons have made the game simpler. and pressing buttons and moving a mouse in no way takes any modicum of skill. At the most, you have to be good with math when MIN/MAXING your gear. Besides, raiding at that level is a full time fucking job, and if you're not the top 5 in the world, there's no point. Way better shit to be spending time on.

[Corroc]

Back to vanilla raiding where you stop doing things because you are waiting for some ability to kick in? no thanks.

Just look at how exciting the abilities were in molten core. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLSB4aQZ9wo

[Jinpachi]

Haha look at this joker! I wonder how many players in top level guilds use mods to make life easier for them? Let alone top rank PvP players using addons such as Gladius. You saying they are unskilled because of your point of view is ridiculous because they are far more (skilled) than you. You can always CHOOSE to not use it and go about your day thinking you're the most skilled player ever because you are in the minority of players that don't use it, but the fact is that's not true. You are going to hinder the people around you with that mindset, and you are the one that will be fucking mechanics up regularly.

They aren't more skilled, they are choosing to invest the time to be in a top-level guild. I raided high level years ago, its a fucking chore with the time investment, especially if you have a family. Make no mistake, the game takes very very very little skill to play at a high level. It merely takes the time commitment. And 650+wipes on a mythic boss isn't skill. It's learning patterns, so get the fuck out of here with your bullshit argument.

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WoW players are spoiled and lazy now, and breaking DBM would probably kill another large portion of their player base. So don't look for them to do it, unless it's part of a hardcore mode like they do with diablo 3

[Pickynerd]

Some boss encounters are long and boring, without the constant nagging of DBM, you might fall asleep in that cozy fire.

[Revak]

If Blizz could design encounters without it, then yes. I'd much rather pay attention to the fight than DBM. I have no faith that they could do so nowadays though.

[david0925]

Are you guys from timer/hourglass companies or something?

Putting boss abilities on a fixed timer but then don't let people know that timer means nothing. All that means is that people will resort to using timers outside of the game.

You're not going to design better or worse encounters because you eliminated a timer from the game. Don't be naive. Some of you just want to see the world burn, especially when many of you already acknowledged that you don't even raid, or raided anymore.

I personally have DBM installed but rarely use it (Blizzard uses the boss's "energy" for a lot of big mechanics now so I look at that instead, for example). But if people have an easier time remembering doing things, or have a reminder that remind me of important timing so they can focus a bit more on improving their own throughput, why not?

[Hahyestwo]

you could certainly raid without DBM... after the first 10 pulls, you usually start internally mapping/clocking the time between different abilities, paying more attention to the visual cast/cast bar of abilities, using your raid group as a safety line (when ppl are paying more attention than you), training yourself to check your debuffs periodically, manually.. if you're tanking, you keep the other tank on focus to monitor their stacks or whatever...


that being said
it would be mentally exhausting with the major positioning/movement/dps/hps/requirements + all the spicey,punishing mechanics that are jumbled in there.
dbm is just a nice safety net so that you get the hang of the boss after the first 2-5 pulls rather than the first 10+ pulls lol.

would they get rid of it? probably not.. itd be hard to imagine the game without it at this point :s

This post reminded me of Thogar progression. The day of the kill, I forgot to turn on BigWigs and it literally made no difference because after whatever many pulls, the cadence of the fight (memory, raid leader callouts, what others were doing, etc.) pretty much carried. In that xpac (WoD), I think the only fight that I'd feel uncomfortable on without addons is Archi (the wrought chaos).

Video here for not-so-subtle humblebragging xD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJAawkFnbs

[david0925]

This post reminded me of Thogar progression. The day of the kill, I forgot to turn on BigWigs and it literally made no difference because after whatever many pulls, the cadence of the fight (memory, raid leader callouts, what others were doing, etc.) pretty much carried. In that xpac (WoD), I think the only fight that I'd feel uncomfortable on without addons is Archi (the wrought chaos).

Video here for not-so-subtle humblebragging xD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJAawkFnbs

I do agree that for the most part boss timers don't make significant difference in a fight, but that's also exactly the reason why we can just leave it alone. If some people can get a bit of crutch from it, why take it away from them? I feel like there is an unspoken grudge of "i feel this guy/guild is doing better than me/my guild because they use boss mods and I/we refuse to do it, so we should just break that mod" in this thread.

[Hahyestwo]

I do agree that for the most part boss timers don't make significant difference in a fight, but that's also exactly the reason why we can just leave it alone. If some people can get a bit of crutch from it, why take it away from them? I feel like there is an unspoken grudge of "i feel this guy/guild is doing better than me/my guild because they use boss mods and I/we refuse to do it, so we should just break that mod" in this thread.

Agree completely.

[Eazy]

People are just lazy.

I wouldn't call them lazy, just more prepared.

[jackofwind]

I wouldn't call them lazy, just more prepared.

If people could complete Mythic raids by using addons that removed any skill requirement they would. Call it lazy, call it prepared, it's all semantics.

[david0925]

You guys are trying to address an issue that doesn't exist, especially with how much more blizzard is doing with pre-emptive ground effects, boss spell queueing and sequence, and using energy bar.

Let's just use Legion as an example. Which fight do you think that having a timer gave such a big advantage to someone using a timer boss mod compared to someone without that you feel you can make the claim that "timers removed skilled from mythic raiding"? Just one example is enough and we can talk from there.

[Wolfrick]

DBM should be removed, its should be a challenging/ adventure game, not a math class with timers and other spammy things in your face...

[Perkunas]

DBM should be removed, its should be a challenging/ adventure game, not a math class with timers and other spammy things in your face...

Content is built and balanced with some form of boss mod taken into account. Seriously, go play The Old Republic and raid in that game. It's content is horrible, there's no complexity, there's no challenge. That's the content you'll get if you try to kill add-ons. There's an actual sample of what you're asking for in the wild right now. Just try it.

[Master Guns]

I guess I'm the only guy here that's been raiding heroic and mythic level content (since they were called "hard modes"), and all other manner of raiding prior from vanilla to today without ever even installing DMB. For like 7 years I've told my RL's that I have it, and that it's just a "version issue" when they're trying to sync it and see who has it haha. Guess who never gets caught? Wanna know why?

RAIDING ISN'T HARD. Move out of the fire. Know where you need to be prior. Seriously.

[rpdrichard]

If Blizz could design encounters without it, then yes. I'd much rather pay attention to the fight than DBM. I have no faith that they could do so nowadays though.

This so much. I avoid LFR like the plague since SoO, even tough I know it has gotten better. I dread the tought of ever entering LFR or a Pug without DBM, people dies anyway with, without it would become a wipefest.

[George Costanza]

People raid with DBM?

WTF?

You can raid without addons. Like a normal person.