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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rubenmsalles View Post
    well ion says that the balance is good and is what they are aiming for.
    that's enought to know what are theirs goals: a non-balanced game when favorite classes are competitive without legs and the classes than must have it to get a spot on anything
    People will say the balance is shit unless every single spec is within 0.0000001% difference in dps.

    But yeah, as I said, I'm not a Ion fanboy and I don't think everything they do is perfect, balance being the first thing on the list I think they suck at.

  2. #22
    People will always have a reason to whine because you can't satisfy everyone. Some whines are justified and should be treated as a valid feedback, though (cf. Tomb of Soakgeras).

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    People will say the balance is shit unless every single spec is within 0.0000001% difference in dps.
    Even if it was the case, the class at the bottom will cry because they are 0.000005% below the 1st (as explained here).


    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    Last edited by A-sayo; 2017-10-05 at 11:02 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Being bad is the first step to gittin gud, before anyone was gud, they were bad. Not everyone is as equally skilled at the start but everyone can learn to git gud. - Ythisens
    Tofinish list : NOTHING CAUSE I FINALLY DID IT.
    Todo list : S;G0, New Game, Erased.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    You assume too much.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thanks for the laugh. Best new one-line joke around.
    He's right, people are enjoying Legion far more than you think. Forums are a microscopic part of the overall community, and thinking the game is hated based on the posts you see only shows how little you understand about this entire thing.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    First things first:
    snip
    Dude, I read like half your post, got tired. I will tell you why I am annoyed. I fucking love Legion, it's best expansion since mists imo, and mists is the best for me. In legion, we got amazing class weapons, and got encouraged to play different classes, yet I can't fucking play alts cause they keep getting shitty legendaries. I have all the bis ones on my lock, and I haven't even gathered all the leggos on my main specc yet. Let alone more than 2 on affli and demo. When I saw these legendary tokens datamined I thought 'Fuck ye, finally a way to reliably farm leggos for alts! It's still fucking RNG cause of the leggo being random, but still, far better than what we got now!'. And then he fucking says that you can only get them on a char that has gotten all the leggos for their class. Are you fucking kidding me?

    After I got my bis leggos, I just sat back and played the game slowly on lock, I tried to enjoy the fucking game for once instead of grinding 24/7 old raids and m+. And now he is telling me that unless I triple up on my leggo acquisition efforts, I still have to rely on shitty RNG for my alts, even though leggos will be fucking useless in 10 months from now? I will flip as many tables as I fucking like at this bullshit. And no, I will not focus on getting legendaries on 3-4 different alts I like to play which by the time I have, Legion will have most likely ended, meaning I've been playing a disabled class for half an expansion. The power creep is too large. Going from 1.6 mil ST dps on my 930 ilvl lock to 925 retri 800k feels fucking horrible.
    Last edited by Soluna; 2017-10-05 at 11:03 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by A-sayo View Post
    People will always have a reason to whine because you can't satisfy everyone. Some whines are justified and should be treated as a valid feedback, though (cf. Tomb of Soakgeras).

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    That's true, but it doesn't hurt to try to push the community in the right direction to get informed. I'm not trying to make feedback disappear, it's necessary for such a game, but it's possible to have more well informed feedback instead of just really whiny feedback.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    Yes sure, doesn't mean it's not worth trying to make the community a slightly better place.
    I agree, but what I mean is that this was the most player friendly expansion so far in my book and I played from the beginning up till Cata, while returning for Legion. I can tell that they are trying to catter to the widest audience possible.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    No, the problem is "The toast is burnt", and the dev said: "We think it's great that the toast is burnt". And that's the problem.
    Thank you. At least someone got it instead of making a bunch of excuses and rationalizations for the devs.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    I don't have to do that, and you have the option to learn or stay wrong. You can spend your entire life refusing the teaching of every single person you meet, or you can learn from it and grow as a person. I'm not even trying to push an opinion or a belief on people, I'm simply saying there's a big part that is missing and it's possible to inform yourself about it by reading well made articles and stuff on the internet.

    To save your the trouble of searching, here are some quick ones that can give you a decent idea:
    http://gamedevelopertips.com/game-development-pipeline/
    http://ca.ign.com/articles/2006/03/1...pletion?page=2
    And this site has a lot of cool stuff about game making as well:
    https://www.gamasutra.com/
    Yes you do, otherwise your thread is meaningless. I read the two articles you linked and it's nothing different from production lines on anything.

    Give us an example. Take a quote from Ion's Q& A and explain it to us in game development terms. Else, your post and your claims about game development can easily be considered as general mumbo-jumbo. Like Ion's comments on WoW. Your OP is essentially reading "how can you ignorant plebs judge an authority on WoW development without proper education"

    Well, we can. Not from a dev point of view, but as players, the recipients of the developer's dream and its incarnation. And the current WoW incarnation suxx ballz.
    /spit@Blizzard

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Valaut View Post
    Dude, I read like half your post, got tired. I will tell you why I am annoyed. I fucking love Legion, it's best expansion since mists imo, and mists is the best for me. In legion, we got amazing class weapons, and got encouraged to play different classes, yet I can't fucking play alts cause they keep getting shitty legendaries. I have all the bis ones on my lock, and I haven't even gathered all the leggos on my main specc yet. Let alone more than 2 on affli and demo. When I saw these legendary tokens datamined I thought 'Fuck ye, finally a way to reliably farm leggos for alts! It's still fucking RNG cause of the leggo being random, but still, far better than what we got now!'. And then he fucking says that you can only get them on a char that has gotten all the leggos for their class. Are you fucking kidding me? After I got my bis leggos, I just sat back and played the game slowly on lock, I tried to enjoy the fucking game for once instead of grinding 24/7 old raids and m+. And now he is telling me that unless I triple up on my leggo acquisition efforts, I still have to rely on shitty RNG for my alts, even though leggos will be fucking useless in 10 months from now? I will flip as many tables as I fucking like at this bullshit.
    Well yeah, it sucks for people who want to play a million alts just like WoD sucked for people who liked to focus on only one toon cuz garrison was a fucking mats factory.
    But I'm just wondering what stops you from playing your alt? Is your character gone from the selection screen because it doesn't have BiS legendaries? How did you manage to even play your first toon without any legendaries?

    Here's a part of my post that you skipped and it's there specially for people like you:
    Sure the legendaries are a problem and I've seen Ion more than once say it's not perfect. But what he said today was spot on, the legendary system itself is fine, the problem is if all legendaries were utility, no one would be jealous like they are now. Because that's what people are, jealous, they don't want to be the guy who doesn't have his 2 BiS, they want what the other guy has, the big stuff.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    Do you know why your toast is burnt?
    Did you let it in the toaster too longer?
    Do you have to take it out manually or is it supposed to pop on its own?
    Why did it not pop out on its own?
    Is the toaster faulty, why is the problem with it?
    Is it just stuck?
    Something broken inside?
    Can I repair it myself or do I need someone else to repair it?
    Can this get fixed for my breakfast before I go to work?

    Sure you can come to the conclusion that the toast is burnt, but before you put it in the toaster you had no idea it would burn (like devs sometimes don't know something will turn out bad), and it's not as easy as it seems to point out the problem and then get it fixed, not to mention there's a lot of other tasks to do at the same time and not just fix a toaster.

    Your comment is one of the best exemple of being uninformed and crying about what you see without understanding the rest, and what you see is just 10% of the problem.
    I'm sorry but are we not allowed to complain about anything just because making video games is hard?

    yes it's hard, that's why they make billions of dollars making them.

    also, the legendary system has been vehemently complained about from the earliest stages of alpha, they had over a year to do anything about it and they didnt

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    He never said that. He said that the legendary system is fine if all legendaries were utility. Which is true. People get bad legendaries and are jealous of their neighbor who gets his BiS first. If all legendaries are utilities, instead of performance, they would all be equally fun to get, making the system just fine.
    In toast metaphore: Your toast is burnt but the guy next to you has a perfect toast, you want his toast.
    No idea what interview you read, but in mine he said: "Random distribution of legendary items isn't a problem. There is something cool about not having the ability to choose a specific legendary from a list.". And that's a toast that's pretty burnt to me - and many others.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridesdel View Post
    but you do have to have some sort of culinary training to know that that burnt toast was supposed to go with that dish, and its not JUST burnt toast
    BLIZZARD: Here, we think you should try some burnt toast because we think you might like it.
    PLAYERS: We tried it. It's burnt. We don't like it.
    BLIZZARD: Well we don't agree, so we're going to keep giving you burnt toast. In fact, here's a side of burnt egg to go with it.
    PLAYERS: o_O

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    You don't have to be a master chef to know when the toast is burnt. :/

    Ion's probable response: The toast is fine being burnt. It adds variety, and we like giving players a reason to check back and keep playing so they have unburnt toast to look forward to one day.
    And if he said that he would be 100 percent right.
    People need to stop looking at what THEY want and start thinking about what is healthy for the game overall.

    Everyone complaining about this shit is just being selfish.
    They would only be satisfied if they all had 955 gear and bis legendaries with no effort. You can thank people like that for all the shit that has changed about the game since Classic.

    Its truly funny, because those are the same people who said "there's nothing to do in the game" last expansion. Now they are effectively saying there is TOO much to do in the game?

    Get lost, casuals. Do EVERYONE a favor and go play something else. For 2 months, then quit that too.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    Sure the legendaries are a problem and I've seen Ion more than once say it's not perfect. But what he said today was spot on, the legendary system itself is fine, the problem is if all legendaries were utility, no one would be jealous like they are now. Because that's what people are, jealous, they don't want to be the guy who doesn't have his 2 BiS, they want what the other guy has, the big stuff. If all legendaries were utilities everyone would be like "yo I got this one, now I can sit in fire for that one boss I hate trolololol", his dps wouldn't jump by 150k and everything would be fine.
    Ion didn't say "everything about legendaries are perfectly fine", and no, at this point they can't just change everything in a couple months, they can't just hand out free legendaries so people stop crying (also a lot of people would cry about all the time they "wasted" farming legendaries when other people just get them for free).
    I agree there are issues in Legion but nothing is as game breaking as people make it seem to be on the forums, it's like a feature just killed their first born, what the fuck.
    Legendaries giving a 5-10% power increase over ones that give a <2% increase is a HUGE fucking problem, especially when you have about 10 or so of them any one spec can get. When I finally got my BiS ones (which took UNTIL FUCKING 7.2!!!), I wasn't like "Oh cool, I got this awesome item!", which is the feeling it was SUPPOSED to be but rather "FUCKING FINALLY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY OVER BULLSHIT RNG ANYMORE!", which is not a good feeling to feel.

    They really should make the system to be where you pick a legendary, or simply keep them all utility and NOT throughput-based. I would legitimately love if every legendary was similar to Prydaz or the other defensive legendaries you can get. To use some examples:

    - Balance Druid has boots that gives them a stacking-up-to-20-stacks buff each time they cast a filler spell. Each stack reduces the GCD/Cast time of Regrowth (their heal) by 5% (capping at instant cast+not on the GCD) and the healing of the spell by 30% (capping at +600%). That heal is a 50% heal if you don't crit and a 100% if you do; it feels great to use but because it's not a throughput legendary, it's not that great. They did add +8% Filler damage to it but it's not enough to justify ever using it over the much better ones.

    - Global Druid Chest: This one's a bit interesting as it increases the Affinity benefit of your spec and the secondary spec you choose by 75%. For those who don't know, the benefits are extra Range, Speed, DR, and healing %HP every 5s, none of which are throughput (for DPS at least), but all of which are helpful to anyone.

    - Global Tank Trinket: A good legendary for pretty much anyone. Nice on-demand shield cooldown.

    - Sephuz: Minus the Haste increase, this is actually a pretty neat utility legendary. Passive speed (added way after launch) and a huge burst of speed when you CC something. Of course, it's garbage for nearly everyone in a raid scenario where you can't CC anything, but the passive speed is always helpful and in a system where we have no throughput leggos, I could see me using this one sometime.


    TL;DR: The bottom line is when you tell everyone they can only use 2 of a huge list of items, and some are DPS-increasing and some are not, guess which ones literally every person ever is going to pick when they're doing content that requires doing as much DPS as you can in the shortest amount of time? Either let people pick their leggos or only make utility ones.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by NoobistTV-Metro View Post
    People need to stop looking at what THEY want and start thinking about what is healthy for the game overall.

    Everyone complaining about this shit is just being selfish.

    Get lost, casuals.
    The irony of this post....holy crap!

    BTW, I want to thank everyone who's taking the time to break down the details of why what I said about toast is an example of what's going on in the game right now. There are some pretty serious flaws with the game, and it seems like Blizzard is hellbent on ignoring the feedback from the players despite the flaws being pretty well outlined by number-crunchers and math-wizards.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2017-10-05 at 11:20 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    Well yeah, it sucks for people who want to play a million alts just like WoD sucked for people who liked to focus on only one toon cuz garrison was a fucking mats factory.
    But I'm just wondering what stops you from playing your alt? Is your character gone from the selection screen because it doesn't have BiS legendaries? How did you manage to even play your first toon without any legendaries?

    Here's a part of my post that you skipped and it's there specially for people like you:
    I actually KNOW that as he has already said it in a previous interview fyi.

    Also, this expansion is supposed to have class content all over the place, from easy one to challenges of mage tower which are pretty difficult without some nice leggos or fully decked hc ToS gear. So ye, it's making my alt unplayable. It sucks fucking balls that 5 ilvls lower alt does 800k dps less than my main because he misses belt and cape leggos. I mean, I am a fucking cleave machine on m+ as ret pala, but on ST encounters in ToS it fucking sucks.

    What you can't get is that I freaking enjoy playing warlock because of a) how the class plays, b) the sheer amount of dmg I can pull at my ilvl. It's amazing to hit 3 mil burst and 1.6 mil sustained st on single target, even more on 2-3 targets like desolate, inquisition, etc. Then go and play another class I like for how it plays, i.e., MM hunt, yet just because I got shitty mask and marked shot ring I do shit dps. Same with pala, same with arms warr, same with havoc DH. I know how to play these classes, I studied guides same way I did for my lock, yet they can't even reach half my main lock's dps.

    The legendaries will go away in 10 months, what's the fucking point of keeping them so exclusive? Best thing would be to send same amount of random leggos to alts as the current count of your highest gathered legendaries on one toon of your account.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    No idea what interview you read, but in mine he said: "Random distribution of legendary items isn't a problem. There is something cool about not having the ability to choose a specific legendary from a list.". And that's a toast that's pretty burnt to me - and many others.
    Keeeeep going, you're literally just hearing what you want to hear to feel offended. He said it would be fine if all legendaries were utility. Which is perfectly fine with what you quoted from him. The system itself is fine, the items are not, but he won't say that, he's being polite, maybe too polite, and people like you are offended by that. You just want him to say "some people fucked up and made retarded items". Then you would be satisfied to hear that but in the end it wouldn't change anything, they can't just click a button that transform everything into a utility legendary.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    TL;DR: The bottom line is when you tell everyone they can only use 2 of a huge list of items, and some are DPS-increasing and some are not, guess which ones literally every person ever is going to pick when they're doing content that requires doing as much DPS as you can in the shortest amount of time? Either let people pick their leggos or only make utility ones.
    Or make many more legendaries to choose from that provide similar levels of utility and effectiveness. Right now the pool of available drops is too small, and the differences in performance are still too large.

  19. #39
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    Only ones flipping tables are the fanboys staring at the truth that negative nancies have been sharing since the start of Legion. It's valid critique and he just casually dismissed it like any casino owner with a good scheme going would.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The irony of this post....holy crap!

    BTW, I want to thank everyone who's taking the time to break down the details of why what I said about toast is an example of what's going on in the game right now. There are some pretty serious flaws with the game, and it seems like Blizzard is hellbent on ignoring the feedback from the players despite the flaws being pretty well outlined by number-crunchers and math-wizards.
    1. Tell us exactly how much time is required to do the changes that are asked for by the community feedbacks.
    2. Also the amount of programmers, artists, game designers, level designers, testers, intergrators, DTs, etc. required to get these tasks done in the amount of time you provide in point 1.
    3. Tell us what other very important tasks have to be sacrificed to get these changes done.
    4. Tell us how much it will cost and what will be the return on investment.

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