Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[baskev]

Previously, this OP was fairly biased, and honestly, we don't need a lengthy OP for this thread.

The thread is about gun control laws, mostly assault weapons laws, but all gun control discussion is fine - whatever people want to talk about that is -directly- related (i.e. not some future vague election promises).

Stay on topic, don't bash each other with insults, and remember this is just a thread in an internet forum.

- Simca

Thread started banned...that does not bode well.

But lets start..

All weapons ban: I think its a great thing. But in a country as America it will never work. I have american family ( hell i am part native american :P). And have been there several times . And people can be either normal...or extremely pigheaded....( more then you find in europa).
Also way to many black market arms etc...

So if i snap out of that dream. There are several things they could do. Rules they could change etc. Before people start saying that will never work...the things i suggest are more % lowering things. Just like if you are pregnant a piece of raw meat does not kill your baby but it will make the change of it being born with a sickness etc higher.

There are several categories that we can look at. Who can buy them, where can you buy them, what can you buy, what to do with all guns, how to storage them. and some other stuff.
Lets start. ( btw i know little about gun laws so some things might already by in place). And feel free to copy this list and add/change it.

Who:
- i think a person who should buy a gun should be vetted. Suicide , depressions any mental problems...no guns. A x amount of violence on your record...the same. Meaning 1 fight does not matter...but if you are 25 and the last 5 years you have been in multiple fights it should count to not getting a gun.

- People should do a gun owner ship test or something like that. Not just a form etc. Think of it like a drivers license. You take a written and practical test. If you get a fine etc relating to your guns you need to redo it. Just like with drunk driving.


Where to buy:
- This is a no brainier. Gun shops/dealers. So no ammo, guns etc anywhere else then a gunshop or a gundealer or a hunting shop. So no mega markets etc where you can buy the stuff.

- Off-course these sellers need to be official gun sellers. ( but i think this is already so). To many infractions ( or multiple times) means no right to sell them anymore.


What can you buy:
- handguns, hunting rifle's, and a large caliber gun ( for big game hunters or farmers that need to put a animal out of its misery). ( not automatics or assault rifle's that are set on semi but can be converted to a auto with little effort)

- Any sane editions to these guns. So better scope for hunting rifle, better stocks etc.

- No stuff that makes automatic weapons out of semi auto's. Break this law, loose your guns and your license.

- Normal ammo.

- Just things a normal person could do with a gun daily. No stuff that might be needed if red dawn like shit will happen.


Old guns:
- If you have old guns that do not fit the 3 type's of guns listed above ( hand,hunting,large cal). Then before date x you can get a license to own them. But the firing pin should be removed and in your gun save.

- No large amounts of ammo for guns like this. a single box is okay. But not more then that. ( i know some ammo goes in hunting rifles to).

- again breaking these rules will make you loose your guns, and your license.


Storage and other stuff:
- if you have enough money to by a gun and extra stuff for a 1000+ dollar price tag. You can also buy a gun save. No gun save means no guns.

- In the save the ammo, and any old gun parts "saved" in here.

- no open carrying laws for old guns/semi auto's. ( expect when there is a license for it). So if there is a gun show you could get a pass to carry a old gun. Or if you are doing a reenactment or something like that. Only guns you should have op your person are: handgun, or hunting rifle. But when this is not in use it should be in a bag or on your back or something like that.

- no gun shops/guns in a x amount of distance of a school, public area like a park etc....do it...and again bye bye gun and gun owning license. Good idea for a app. A app that warns you if you near a place like that .


Personal side note:
I do not get the fun of auto/semi auto guns. Yes they can be pretty etc. But carrying and owning them when you fire has no added value. You can argue that on gun clubs you could fire them there. But then i think the firing pins should be stored at the club.
And open carrying of semi automatic weapons is just a other way to say...look at my big dick...this has nothing to do with your safety. Adding tac gear to it makes your dick even smaller.

And i think americans should really look at their fellow country men/women. And how they are as a people.

some numbers:
2015: 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries
2015: 13,286 deaths ( excluding self killings) by guns

Look at this: http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

and there is also https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ther-countries

a random statistic from that site: Fact: There has been just one fatal shooting by Icelandic police in the country’s 71-year history. The city of Stockton, California – with 25,000 fewer residents than all of Iceland combined – had three fatal encounters in the first five months of 2015.
( so lets round that out to 6 deaths a year times 70 years) 420 cop shootings vs 1 cop shooting in 70 years. ( know there are allot of factors here). but this more to show that there is a big problem with hurting each other in america. No where in the western world is it this bad.

[Stormdash]

Every regulation of firearm access, ownership, possession, or use has to start with the assumption that it is the regulation that must justify itself. That's how liberty interest work in a free society, the liberty is what gets the first and most benefit of the doubt. In the United States, that includes firearms.

To wit, almost every idea on the foregoing post is premised on the idea that there is no liberty interest, test, or scrutiny owed the ownership of firearms, that they are as subject to government restriction as any generic consumer good, and that's simply not the case.

[gyrados]

regarding gun control what would yall advise i mean cause a criminal is gonna get a gun regardless i mean its fine to have discussion

[TITAN308]

Real and fiction are two different things, stop letting them confuse you.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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$500 is high for a MP5 .22 but with the EoTech holo included I think it was a good price.

I have a feeling you got a chinese knock off eotech.

Sale price on H&K Mp5 .22 is around $400. Eotech 512 is about $440 as well.

So you either god a super smoking deal or some knock off stuff.

[Guy4123]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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I have a feeling you got a chinese knock off eotech.

Sale price on H&K Mp5 .22 is around $400. Eotech 512 is about $440 as well.

So you either god a super smoking deal or some knock off stuff.

Oh it's an old as poop 2004 EoTech 502 not a new one or anything. Still works great.

[Stop Pretending]

Whatever helps sleep at night.

The fact you're trying to draw parallels between rooting for a fictional character in John Wick, and the Las Vegas shooter is laughable at best. See one is a movie, no one really dies, I'm not sure if you're aware of that. It's called acting and special effects. Now, when you're able to comprehend the difference between fiction and reality, your comparison will remain to be shit.

[khalltusk]

The point is, the UK had lower numbers before their near complete ban. They've had various gun control for a lot longer than that. They also have that advantage of being an island rather than very long open borders. But, when the UK passed it's ban, over the next 20 years, the crime rate dropped something like 40%, but in the USA in the same time frame, it dropped like 45%. Or Australia, they are rightfully proud of not having had a mass shooting since they banned nearly all firearms, but they only had 2-3 over the previous 10 years. Following the ban, they had a bunch of arson mass murders.

So the idea that it worked for you is possible, certainly, but there were also a lot of other factors in the same timeframe that may have had more of an impact. It also certainly didn't eliminate violent crime, not that anyone thought it would. So a sample size of 1 "it worked here" doesn't really matter, overall.

Australia's the more interesting one, since like Canada/ Alaska, you probably do NEED firearms when the wildlife is active. I assume they all have levers, rather than semi-auto's, but because of a nutjob the semiauto's are completely banned.

Meanwhile, the rest of the EU has various levels of gun ownership rather than the near complete ban of the UK/Aus, but is their gun crime noticeably higher? Did the UK's ban really do anything more?

In the UK you can still own guns, but its tightly controlled. It is true that as an island it is easier to control this. To put it into context Chicago has had more gun crime in a year than the entire UK in previous years. That is one city versus an entire country. However it is true most of that is gang related but its worth keeping in mind.

Gun controls work here but won't in the US. You have Millions of guns (I think over 200M+? please correct me if I am way off) and it would take decades for those numbers to truly go down enough to make an impact. Not forgetting your border with Mexico where they could be easily smuggled in still.

So yes gun controls have worked in the UK, but the US is a trickier one there is little to no will power from the people or government to really make a change and a change would take decades to make any impact.

Your argument appears flawed, no one says crime will stop criminals will try other methods. But making it harder for these people to use a far more effective tool (aka firearms) helps. A great example of a country and gun laws/crime is Japan. They do set the bar when it comes to the low statistics.

We know gun laws can work but its the time needed to reduce the number of firearms as I stated earlier. It would take far too long to make an meaningful impact.

[TITAN308]

The fact you're trying to draw parallels between rooting for a fictional character in John Wick, and the Las Vegas shooter is laughable at best. See one is a movie, no one really dies, I'm not sure if you're aware of that. It's called acting and special effects. Now, when you're able to comprehend the difference between fiction and reality, your comparison will remain to be shit.

10-4 good buddy.

[Flarelaine]

No he isn't, he wasn't voicing an opinion he was flat out stating that in the UK gun control laws have had no measurable effect on gun crime or gun killings, both of which are completely false statements.

Gun control laws in the UK also had a measureable effect on acid crime, if news can be believed.

[Hooked]

Nope, The 2A is way more valuable than than the 1A. The 2A protects all the rest of the a's.

[Raunchy]

Just enforce the fucking current law.....because currently it is not enforced at all....

[Antiganon]

I like CT gun laws. You need to do a safety training course to get a license to purchase any firearm or ammunition, and an additional pistol permit to buy a handgun. The pistol permit is also the carry permit. Both the purchase license and pistol permit need to be renewed every 5 years.

Add in universal background checks and criminalize private sales without a background check, and you essentially eliminate all preventable gun crime.

I wouldn't even bother limiting modifications for individual gun owners - make things like bump stocks illegal to for sale (or manufacture for sale) and call it a day.

Don't try to make them illegal to use, as you will never be able to do so successfully, and enterprising hobbyists will always find away to turn a semiauto gun into full auto.

[Ghostpanther]

Real and fiction are two different things, stop letting them confuse you.

True. But such type movies do encourage some. The majority can watch it and not have any impact on their desire or wishes to shoot others. It is still hypocritical of the movie industry to speak out for more strict gun control and yet have no reservations on showing movies like John Wick. A bit like Al Gore traveling around in a air polluting jet. :P

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DC isn't going to appeal the pro-shall issue ruling they just got hit over the head with precisely so that they don't risk a shall-issue ruling from SCOTUS.

Good. I am hoping the SC will some day visit such a copy of the DC attempted law in California State/Cities. With another conservative Justice on the bench, they might.

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I had a feeling this thread would pop up to the front page again.

I finally got me self a .22lr for cheap range shooting. The .303 hits the wallet a bit too hard.





$500 is high for a MP5 .22 but with the EoTech holo included I think it was a good price.

Congrats. A very nice weapon! A .22 cal makes a lot more sense for pure target practice fun, if you need to watch the purse stings.

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Who:

Where to buy:

What can you buy:

Old guns:

Storage and other stuff:



And i think americans should really look at their fellow country men/women. And how they are as a people.

some numbers:
2015: 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries
2015: 13,286 deaths ( excluding self killings) by guns

Look at this: http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

and there is also https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ther-countries

a random statistic from that site: Fact: There has been just one fatal shooting by Icelandic police in the country’s 71-year history. The city of Stockton, California – with 25,000 fewer residents than all of Iceland combined – had three fatal encounters in the first five months of 2015.
( so lets round that out to 6 deaths a year times 70 years) 420 cop shootings vs 1 cop shooting in 70 years. ( know there are allot of factors here). but this more to show that there is a big problem with hurting each other in america. No where in the western world is it this bad.

Why not post Vermont's firearm death rate, which has the most lax gun control laws in the US? There is a lot more going on than just access to firearms. Much more important reasons.

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Just enforce the fucking current law.....because currently it is not enforced at all....

This and make the punishment more severe for committing a crime with a firearm.

[baskev]

Why not post Vermont's firearm death rate, which has the most lax gun control laws in the US? There is a lot more going on than just access to firearms. Much more important reasons.

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....why respond if you do not read what people wrote....It was a example from that sight. There where MANY MANY more.
And if you had read my post, you would have seen that i said more then how to get guns.
I talked about who should get them, what you should be able to get. But also dedicated a whole portion to the fact that their seems to be a allot of aggression or lack of compassion or something more to the equation then just guns etc.

But if you only read and want to hear what you want to hear...then their will never be a solution to the problem. Because you just pretty much put your fingers in your ears the moment i talked about gun control!

But if it did not come across. Let me state it clear: Next to all the getting a gun etc problem. I think america has a problem with aggression. The extremes ( on both political sides + antifa bastards) are making for a more aggressive country. It has become more and more a you vs them country. Parts of america i visit are still nice and decent. But some parts are beginning to look and act like a aggressive 3th world country. Hell my cousin let me drive because i look white and get pulled over less them him as his black friends ( he is native)...the 2 times i did not drive i was sleeping with a hoodie on and we got pulled over...on the same road we always drive :S:S..
But also the groups who act like if you not for them you are against them. A government who is ( on both side's again) acting more and more on emotions then on facts.

And if you read my post...you would have also read the following: That my suggestions are not 100% no gun deaths..but 1, 2 % things that lower the change.

[Ghostpanther]

....why respond if you do not read what people wrote....It was a example from that sight. There where MANY MANY more.
And if you had read my post, you would have seen that i said more then how to get guns.
I talked about who should get them, what you should be able to get. But also dedicated a whole portion to the fact that their seems to be a allot of aggression or lack of compassion or something more to the equation then just guns etc.

But if you only read and want to hear what you want to hear...then their will never be a solution to the problem. Because you just pretty much put your fingers in your ears the moment i talked about gun control!

But if it did not come across. Let me state it clear: Next to all the getting a gun etc problem. I think america has a problem with aggression. The extremes ( on both political sides + antifa bastards) are making for a more aggressive country. It has become more and more a you vs them country. Parts of america i visit are still nice and decent. But some parts are beginning to look and act like a aggressive 3th world country. Hell my cousin let me drive because i look white and get pulled over less them him as his black friends ( he is native)...the 2 times i did not drive i was sleeping with a hoodie on and we got pulled over...on the same road we always drive :S:S..
But also the groups who act like if you not for them you are against them. A government who is ( on both side's again) acting more and more on emotions then on facts.

And if you read my post...you would have also read the following: That my suggestions are not 100% no gun deaths..but 1, 2 % things that lower the change.

I read your entire post. Some good points. Some not so good. But it is the general stuff you see all the time here when people post statistics. And they ignore the root cause of most of those firearms death's criminals cause. Note, I do not consider a firearm death in which a criminal is eliminated as a issue. :P

[TZucchini]

The 2A protects all the rest of the a's.

This may have been true in the 1800's. But it certainly, absolutely, is not true today.

[Ghostpanther]

This may have been true in the 1800's. But it certainly, absolutely, is not true today.

I agree with that. But the second is just as important as all the rest of the rights in our Constitution.

[TZucchini]

I agree with that. But the second is just as important as all the rest of the rights in our Constitution.

In my opinion, it's not even close in terms of importance. Again, maybe it was in the 1800's. I absolutely understand the need for such an Amendment after the tumultuous formation of our nation. But there's just no possible way I could ever believe that, in 2017, the ownership of a manufactured item is just as important as free speech, or the banishment of slavery, or the right to a fair trial.

But that's just me. I think I've made my mind clear on this, but the 2nd should be re-vamped into a type of "right to self-defense" amendment. Because that particular aspect I do see as important.

[Daelak]

In my opinion, it's not even close in terms of importance. Again, maybe it was in the 1800's. I absolutely understand the need for such an Amendment after the tumultuous formation of our nation. But there's just no possible way I could ever believe that, in 2017, the ownership of a manufactured item is just as important as free speech, or the banishment of slavery, or the right to a fair trial.

But that's just me. I think I've made my mind clear on this, but the 2nd should be re-vamped into a type of "right to self-defense" amendment. Because that particular aspect I do see as important.

It became irrelevant as the 3rd at roughly the same time when the national military was formed.

[Ghostpanther]

In my opinion, it's not even close in terms of importance. Again, maybe it was in the 1800's. I absolutely understand the need for such an Amendment after the tumultuous formation of our nation. But there's just no possible way I could ever believe that, in 2017, the ownership of a manufactured item is just as important as free speech, or the banishment of slavery, or the right to a fair trial.

But that's just me. I think I've made my mind clear on this, but the 2nd should be re-vamped into a type of "right to self-defense" amendment. Because that particular aspect I do see as important.

I know how you feel and you have the right to your opinion. But it would be hard for some people ( old, handicapped, weaker , etc. ) to successfully exercise that right without a firearm. Until someone can invent a 100% fail proof Star Trek Stun gun. Even with that, the Second is fine the way it is. Some reasonable gun control laws could be introduced however to address some issues. There has to be some restrictions, as there is already to exercise some of our other Constitutional rights. But not to the extent it should be hard to. That is my opinion.