The Argus and the demons

[Felixon]

If you have grinded WQ's on Argus, you probably have seen the texts such as "she will be revived by Antorus,but her failure will not go unpunished". Also, there're mentions from the demon NPC's on Argus,that they are going to return. The question is - why can't they be destroyed pernamently? I don't think,that there's more fel saturated area in the whole universe than Argus?Is this some kind of retcon of lore from the Chronicle vol.1?


Share your thoughts!

[WskyDK]

From what I understand, Antorus just speeds up demon regeneration. They still have to be killed in the nether.

[Lahis]

They use Argus' world soul to speed up resurrection and making it possible to resurrect even on fel saturated area like Argus.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Yet again blizzard has altered how demons die and their connection to the twisting nether. Imagine Antorus being a big ass graveyard and Argus the spirit keeper but Sargeras deciding who can be revived.

[Maduk]

Since Argus was teleported to Azeroth, this could have severed Argus' connection to the nether.
So demos wouild still be returned to the nether if killed on Argus.

[Deleted]

Since Argus was teleported to Azeroth, this could have severed Argus' connection to the nether.
So demos wouild still be returned to the nether if killed on Argus.

Argus wasn't teleported anywhere, there is a portal connecting both worlds.

[nyarlo]

I'm sure a titan's world-soul's power should be able to ressurect a demon even on fel-saturated areas, they probably still die ''permanently'' unless Sargeras has a say in the matter.

[Qualia]

Is this some kind of retcon of lore from the Chronicle vol.1?

Share your thoughts!

No, it isn't. While we can have our guesses based on quests / in-game speeches, the audio drama helped making it clearer. Basically, from the audio drama, we get that:
- Demons dying permanently inside the Nether (and areas utterly saturated with Nether energy) is still a thing. It was mentioned again in the audio drama and shown with example.
- It's also true that Sargeras / the Legion can use Argus' power to resurrect demons (or technically, "revive their fallen souls" as said by Argus), even if they die .
- Argus resurrection seems to have a range limit, seeing that assassin demon killed by Alleria on Xenedar inside the Nether could still die permanently and it knew that.

With that said, I think it's fair to assume that Argus' resurrection and the demon's natural resurrection aren't the same thing. Argus' rez seems to have a range limit, but works well inside the Nether. The demons' natural resurrection doesn't seem to have any range limit (seeing it works all over the universe / multiverse), but doesn't work inside the Nether or places utterly saturated with Nether energy. Sargeras probably created a big, constant resurrection spell on Argus powered by the world soul's energy to act as an extra layer of protection for the Legion's main base.

[Deleted]

No, it isn't. While we can have our guesses based on quests / in-game speeches, the audio drama helped making it clearer. Basically, from the audio drama, we get that:
- Demons dying permanently inside the Nether (and areas utterly saturated with Nether energy) is still a thing. It was mentioned again in the audio drama and shown with example.
- It's also true that Sargeras / the Legion can use Argus' power to resurrect demons (or technically, "revive their fallen souls" as said by Argus), even if they die .
- Argus resurrection seems to have a range limit, seeing that assassin demon killed by Alleria on Xenedar inside the Nether could still die permanently and it knew that.

With that said, I think it's fair to assume that Argus' resurrection and the demon's natural resurrection aren't the same thing. Argus' rez seems to have a range limit, but works well inside the Nether. The demons' natural resurrection doesn't seem to have any range limit (seeing it works all over the universe / multiverse), but doesn't work inside the Nether or places utterly saturated with Nether energy. Sargeras probably created a big, constant resurrection spell on Argus powered by the world soul's energy to act as an extra layer of protection for the Legion's main base.

I believe in the audio drama it was hinted that Alleria after harnessing the void and getting trained by LS also knows the secret of perma death ( or something between these lines) which is the new thing about the killing of demons ...

[zlygork]

- Argus resurrection seems to have a range limit, seeing that assassin demon killed by Alleria on Xenedar inside the Nether could still die permanently and it knew that..

Are you sure that this was due to range? My understanding was that it was some characteristic of the void energies that allowed Alleria to utterly destroy the demon's soul permanently.

Edit: beaten to it.

[Qualia]

I believe in the audio drama it was hinted that Alleria after harnessing the void and getting trained by LS also knows the secret of perma death ( or something between these lines) which is the new thing about the killing of demons ...

Are you sure that this was due to range? My understanding was that it was some characteristic of the void energies that allowed Alleria to utterly destroy the demon's soul permanently.

As far as I know, the only thing that might hint at a new secret of perma-death is the assassin demon's thought ("She knew how to command the final death."). However, it could mean a lot of things, including both what you mentioned or that Alleria simply knows that the demons can be killed permanently in the Nether and she can pull them there. After all, right after that, the demon's thought were elaborated: "Dark matter wrapped around its neck. The demon screamed as it was yanked from its dance and pulled back onto the Xenedar. Back into the Twisting Nether. She had pulled it here, to the one place where it could die".

In another occasion, Lothraxion also mentioned "He did kill me. But he pulled me out of the Nether to do it. <...> He said he saw a 'unique destiny' for me and wanted me to be reborn." while talking about Locus-Walker. If Void energies has some special attribute allowing it to be able to target a demon soul or just kill a demon permanently, there shouldn't be any difference between killing Lothraxion in the physical universe / out of the Nether and inside the Nether, is there? It's not like Void energy grows more powerful inside of the Nether, as far as we know.

Arguably, it's still possible that maybe you need to combine both the Nether and Void energy to kill a demon permanently. However, I find it unlikely. In one of the Army of the Light's raid on a Legion world, it was stated that "When they arrived, every demon there was already dead. Permanently dead. They had been dragged into the Twisting Nether and butchered. That was the only way to put an immortal demonic soul to rest forever. Even the prisoners had been slaughtered.". Not only was there no hint about an unknown method, they (the army of the Light) weren't surprised about it either. If Argus' resurrection doesn't have any range limitation, and you need Void energy AND the Nether to kill demons permanently, shouldn't demons' perma-deaths be pretty rare thing to the Army of the Light?

[Deleted]

As far as I know, the only thing that might hint at a new secret of perma-death is the assassin demon's thought ("She knew how to command the final death."). However, it could mean a lot of things, including both what you mentioned or that Alleria simply knows that the demons can be killed permanently in the Nether and she can pull them there. After all, right after that, the demon's thought were elaborated: "Dark matter wrapped around its neck. The demon screamed as it was yanked from its dance and pulled back onto the Xenedar. Back into the Twisting Nether. She had pulled it here, to the one place where it could die".

In another occasion, Lothraxion also mentioned "He did kill me. But he pulled me out of the Nether to do it. <...> He said he saw a 'unique destiny' for me and wanted me to be reborn." while talking about Locus-Walker. If Void energies has some special attribute allowing it to be able to target a demon soul or just kill a demon permanently, there shouldn't be any difference between killing Lothraxion in the physical universe / out of the Nether and inside the Nether, is there? It's not like Void energy grows more powerful inside of the Nether, as far as we know.

Arguably, it's still possible that maybe you need to combine both the Nether and Void energy to kill a demon permanently. However, I find it unlikely. In one of the Army of the Light's raid on a Legion world, it was stated that "When they arrived, every demon there was already dead. Permanently dead. They had been dragged into the Twisting Nether and butchered. That was the only way to put an immortal demonic soul to rest forever. Even the prisoners had been slaughtered.". Not only was there no hint about an unknown method, they (the army of the Light) weren't surprised about it either. If Argus' resurrection doesn't have any range limitation, and you need Void energy AND the Nether to kill demons permanently, shouldn't demons' perma-deaths be pretty rare thing to the Army of the Light?

Mhm on a second thought u are spot on. Maybe Alleria by knowing how u can actually kill a demon ( audio drama hinting that they didnt know how to kill em initially) and by opening rifts after the training (?) she found out how to kill em ...

[Kralljin]

As far as I know, the only thing that might hint at a new secret of perma-death is the assassin demon's thought ("She knew how to command the final death.")

I think that simply refers to her Mastery over the void.

I mean Void is presumably the end of reality, hence it would be the "final death" for just everything.

The term itself seems to be inspired by a theory known as Heat Death, a possible fate of the universe where everything is just frozen (gross simplification).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_d...f_the_universe

[Magnagarde]

They should've just removed the "fel saturated" area nonsense and brought Archimonde back, whom we'd kill off for good in some questline that involves Argus.

[Aucald]

I'm a bit confused on how death, demons, and the connection to Argus and/or Antorus is working now. Some of the quests or conversations make it seem like the Nether is no longer an impediment to demonic resurrection - Sargeras is just catching demonic souls on death and utilizing the essence of Argus the Unmaker to regenerate his soldiers in the bowels of Antorus. The newest audio dramas make it sound like the Nether is still a dangerous place for demons to die in - unless Lothraxion himself isn't a beneficiary of Sargeras' "new" method of recycling Legion demons by virtue of Argus' essence (due to being a Lightforged Nathrezim, perhaps). I'm unsure if the Fel saturation clause is still attached now that the demons have this new method of regenerating.

With all that in play, it seems like the death of both Archimonde and Kil'jaeden might not be final - but we know they're not returning in any capacity in the Antorus raid. It seems like the Void can be somehow employed to permanently kill demons, which may be a plot-point for later on down the raid (or not).

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm a bit confused on how death, demons, and the connection to Argus and/or Antorus is working now. Some of the quests or conversations make it seem like the Nether is no longer an impediment to demonic resurrection - Sargeras is just catching demonic souls on death and utilizing the essence of Argus the Unmaker to regenerate his soldiers in the bowels of Antorus. The newest audio dramas make it sound like the Nether is still a dangerous place for demons to die in - unless Lothraxion himself isn't a beneficiary of Sargeras' "new" method of recycling Legion demons by virtue of Argus' essence (due to being a Lightforged Nathrezim, perhaps). I'm unsure if the Fel saturation clause is still attached now that the demons have this new method of regenerating.

With all that in play, it seems like the death of both Archimonde and Kil'jaeden might not be final - but we know they're not returning in any capacity in the Antorus raid. It seems like the Void can be somehow employed to permanently kill demons, which may be a plot-point for later on down the raid (or not).

I assume Antorus is like an override to a demon dying in the Nether. It's still bad but without Argus's fancy new toy, demons would be dying left and right(Unless Sargeras has say in it).

[Aucald]

I assume Antorus is like an override to a demon dying in the Nether. It's still bad but without Argus's fancy new toy, demons would be dying left and right(Unless Sargeras has say in it).

By which you mean that death in the Nether is no longer final for a given demon (so long as Sargeras chooses to recycle their beings within Antorus)? That may very well be, but it leaves a lot of questions open concerning Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and the demons who die over the course of the Argussian campaign.

[Merie]

Can Kil'jaedon be revived the same way?

[zlygork]

As far as I know, the only thing that might hint at a new secret of perma-death is the assassin demon's thought ("She knew how to command the final death."). However, it could mean a lot of things, including both what you mentioned or that Alleria simply knows that the demons can be killed permanently in the Nether and she can pull them there. After all, right after that, the demon's thought were elaborated: "Dark matter wrapped around its neck. The demon screamed as it was yanked from its dance and pulled back onto the Xenedar. Back into the Twisting Nether. She had pulled it here, to the one place where it could die".

In another occasion, Lothraxion also mentioned "He did kill me. But he pulled me out of the Nether to do it. <...> He said he saw a 'unique destiny' for me and wanted me to be reborn." while talking about Locus-Walker. If Void energies has some special attribute allowing it to be able to target a demon soul or just kill a demon permanently, there shouldn't be any difference between killing Lothraxion in the physical universe / out of the Nether and inside the Nether, is there? It's not like Void energy grows more powerful inside of the Nether, as far as we know.

Arguably, it's still possible that maybe you need to combine both the Nether and Void energy to kill a demon permanently. However, I find it unlikely. In one of the Army of the Light's raid on a Legion world, it was stated that "When they arrived, every demon there was already dead. Permanently dead. They had been dragged into the Twisting Nether and butchered. That was the only way to put an immortal demonic soul to rest forever. Even the prisoners had been slaughtered.". Not only was there no hint about an unknown method, they (the army of the Light) weren't surprised about it either. If Argus' resurrection doesn't have any range limitation, and you need Void energy AND the Nether to kill demons permanently, shouldn't demons' perma-deaths be pretty rare thing to the Army of the Light?

Good catch, it is probably as you say that the void has the ability to create portals/teleport since we know that at least the Locus Walker did it twice.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

By which you mean that death in the Nether is no longer final for a given demon (so long as Sargeras chooses to recycle their beings within Antorus)? That may very well be, but it leaves a lot of questions open concerning Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and the demons who die over the course of the Argussian campaign.

There is no confirmation but I assume Kil'Jaeden is dead for good and Sargeras doesn't give a damn. That's all assumption though. Really should of left the demon ressurection alone >.>