Stop flipping tables about Dev Q&A

[Fabinas]

You can say that again.

This thread has no meaning unless you actually give us at least a single example of game development and the correlation of Ion's answers in Q&A. If not, you're just making the authority argument which most of us won't buy.

Happy? :-P

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Well I don't have specifics for Blizzard, no. Imagine I did, and I told you "there will be a big catch up mechanic after antorus so you can get all the legendaries you are missing and then in the next xpack it's all gone".
People will complain that they don't get their legendaries in time to use them in antorus.
So blizzard comes back saying, okay, we rushed up the task, you can buy all the legendaries you want right now and be ready for antorus.
People will complain that they "wasted" time before, farming legendaries when they would have not done that have they known they would eventually be able to just buy them all, and probably some fucked up people will ask go get a refund on their months spent farming legendaries, like what the fuck.
Sure some people will be happy, like some people are happy right now. They are literally stuck between love and hate and all solutions come with different issues. There's no real fix to this, except one. Which one? The pass to a new xpack. They can put this behind them and move on to something else.


You don't think that's true? Yes that's basically the message to catch in this thread but I'm trying to provide more than just one line, make a discussion and maybe explain a bit that, sure, things are not perfect at all, but crying won't fix it and if we understand better how games are made we can see that yeah it sucks and solutions are just bandaid and maybe it will only really get fixed later so crying right now is pointless, so why do it?

Maybe people are crying for nothing at Blizzard the same way I'm making this thread for nothing cuz no one wants to learn and maybe you're replying to me for nothing because I'll keep trying... for nothing, maybe we're all insane. Herpderp.

Thanks for admitting your OP is full of shite.

[Blayze]

To continue the toast analogy, imagine if Blizzard would only let you eat your main course (a raiding slot) if you ate an amount of toast they consider acceptable (grinding for the correct legendaries and titanforged items). You have no idea how much toast they want you to eat, but if you want the meal you've paid for you'd better chow down, bitch.

A few lucky bastards only have to take a few bites. Most get full on toast and leave without getting their meal, having given up.
Some are dead, full on toast.

[SirCowdog]

Fact : The toast is just starting to be over well-cooked.
Mmo-Champion : the toast is BURNED, the toaster is BURNED, the kitchen is BURNED, my house is BURNED. Everything is BURNED!

Ok, I laughed pretty good at this. Truly, sir, I must bow before the raw...ACCURACY of this. ;D

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That analogy would work if even when the Toast wasn't burnt, people didn't scream and shout because it was Wholemeal instead of Multigrain, when they had paid for Wholemeal but expected Multigrain.

That is literally 99% of the complaints about WoW on this Website. Someone doesn't like something that most players do or don't care about. Suddenly to them the entire game is dying and bad.

Dramaqueens mostly.

Oh...the food analogies make me so...so...HUNGRY!!! FFS! hahahaha

EDIT: Whoops! Crossed the streams there and posted about flying again. See what posting while hungry does to you? XD

[Fabinas]

I'm not flipping tables but it makes you think what color the skies are in the world they live in that any large number of people would EVER receive all the legendaries for 1 class unless they severely up the drop rate of legendaries. They should have been currency purchaseable as a grindable way of guaranteeing a legendary every X amount of time.

EVERYTHING in this game that is awarded by a non-boss drop and is currently depended on rng, should be purchasable by some form of currency, so that players who believe in effort have a definite time schedule of getting a reward. Even some world boss drops should be purchasable somehow. Example: Artifact appearance drops, Rank 3 alchemy pot dropping from Nazak etc.

[Deleted]

The problem is : community is left to speculate that new expansion to be announced soon and a couple of months before the speculated announcement the head of the game appears in a q&a and behaves like everything is fine or admits that some aspects were not as successful as they thought and they are reflecting on them (at the very best). It is only natural that the community (btw the majority thinks that legion has been one of the best expansions , easily making the way in the top3 imo ) tht has spotted at all the weaknesses of it from the alpha and sees a team that does not want to invest time and effort to fix them comes down with the conclusion that the same pile of bs will be served in the upcoming expansion. And they start flipping tables.

[sam86]

And I think that's the difference you are looking for, Blizzard really does have an "Us v Them" mentality and it's affecting their product.

It is a solution that I hate more than anything and will be my last resort
I do plan to stop play when my sub - even if i hate that - if they don't seriously change their big f8cked up steps in this last patch
This patch will stay for 1year + (let's not kid ourselves, last patch stay for 1year+ since TBC, probably even vanilla too but I left after naxx patch due to 2nd time guild disband and was fed with guild dramas)

[clevin]

Wow.

You're incredibly pompous.

You sure you aren't a WoW dev?

This your first time reading this guy's BS? He's always like this.

[Toppy]

The problem is : community is left to speculate that new expansion to be announced soon and a couple of months before the speculated announcement the head of the game appears in a q&a and behaves like everything is fine or admits that some aspects were not as successful as they thought and they are reflecting on them (at the very best). It is only natural that the community (btw the majority thinks that legion has been one of the best expansions , easily making the way in the top3 imo ) tht has spotted at all the weaknesses of it from the alpha and sees a team that does not want to invest time and effort to fix them comes down with the conclusion that the same pile of bs will be served in the upcoming expansion. And they start flipping tables.

This has been how the QA's have been since the start of Legion.

So "Its because we're near the end" doesnt fly when they've been doing this over and over again for a long time now.

Hell past QA's they've apologized for loads of stuff, then continued to do them.

[Dopplegager]

I Haven't watched the QA or read the questions and answers yet but I would have liked to see the prestige thing be account wide with how man levels there are. I'd actually send some time on my lock. But as is it takes to long to level up for me to want to invest in that system on alts.

[Barnabas]

I still think Lore picks the stupidest possible questions for the Q and A's. It's at least what causes the disconnect for me of even caring to watch it at all. I bet if I asked what pet projects from employees made it to production and what is you guys favorite ones would get passed over by another pointless why am I not getting legendaries faster question.

[Shaderas]

This has stuck with me ever since, my first job as a prep cook. Do you know what the difference is between a 3 star Michelin Chef and a McDonald line cook? Attention to detail and the ability to act on it.

The amount of detail I put into my work is VERY comparable, if not more so.

I may not serve near as many people as Blizzard. Though, that wouldn't mean I would sacrifice my quality if I had too. I would meet every consumers demand, numbers don't mean anything.

The disconnect, is that Blizzard thinks WoW is their product, not the players/paying consumers. Much like an author would feel about their work. While, Blizzard might cater to some demands, it's overall "their" product.

The only, the ONLY way to protest and make meaningful change is with the wallet. Quit buying into the product and you will quit getting shitty service.

And I think that's the difference you are looking for, Blizzard really does have an "Us v Them" mentality and it's affecting their product.

The bolded part.. that is absolutely impossible to do if you're serving millions of people at once. It may be possible if you can cook each meal separately for the individual. Not when you're cooking for millions at a time.

[RobertoCarlos]

I still think Lore picks the stupidest possible questions for the Q and A's. It's at least what causes the disconnect for me of even caring to watch it at all. I bet if I asked what pet projects from employees made it to production and what is you guys favorite ones would get passed over by another pointless why am I not getting legendaries faster question.

My personal favourite question is the one that perfectly sets up a new feature coming up in the next or future patches

"Can we expect more mini events in the future or going forward" "Absolutely! I am so glad this question came up"

I like how answers to basic problems are always "in the pipeline"....just down the road.....soon tm

[Toppy]

The bolded part.. that is absolutely impossible to do if you're serving millions of people at once. It may be possible if you can cook each meal separately for the individual. Not when you're cooking for millions at a time.

I suppose the big disconnect with the blizz devs is that they dont, by their own admission, listen to feedback.

[SirCowdog]

This has been how the QA's have been since the start of Legion.

So "Its because we're near the end" doesnt fly when they've been doing this over and over again for a long time now.

Hell past QA's they've apologized for loads of stuff, then continued to do them.

This is why it's so important to look at what they do, and not listen to what they're saying. Blizzard changes their stance so often that I don't even think THEY know what they're saying anymore(WoD is a great example of this).

[Toppy]

This is why it's so important to look at what they do, and not listen to what they're saying. Blizzard changes their stance so often that I don't even think THEY know what they're saying anymore(WoD is a great example of this).

No, with Legion they've been consistent.

They've consistently apologized for what they've done, and then state they will continue doing it.

Over and over.

[rda]

I Haven't watched the QA or read the questions and answers yet but I would have liked to see the prestige thing be account wide with how man levels there are. I'd actually send some time on my lock. But as is it takes to long to level up for me to want to invest in that system on alts.

The excerpt from the OP's first post addressed specifically to you:

"That one stupid motherfucker who says he can't PvP on his alt cuz all his prestige is on his main.
So I understand your main came with lvl 50 prestige right off the bat? And this is what enables you to queue for BGs?
No you stupid fucking cunt, nothing prevents you from doing PvP on your alt with no prestige, why would you even say that?"

Not kidding. This is OP's reaction to a guy with the same request as yours. If you think the reaction is a bit unwarranted and a bit bizarre, welcome to the club.

[Blayze]

The excerpt from the OP's first post addressed specifically to you:

"That one stupid motherfucker who says he can't PvP on his alt cuz all his prestige is on his main.
So I understand your main came with lvl 50 prestige right off the bat? And this is what enables you to queue for BGs?
No you stupid fucking cunt, nothing prevents you from doing PvP on your alt with no prestige, why would you even say that?"

Not kidding. This is OP's reaction to a guy with the same request as yours. If you think the reaction is a bit unwarranted and a bit bizarre, welcome to the club.

It was a desperate case of "please notice me, Blizzard-senpai."

[sam86]

I suppose the big disconnect with the blizz devs is that they dont, by their own admission, listen to feedback.

Actually i think hey claim they listen, also with zero evidence to that, but I believe they claim they 'listen' (to the voices in their own heads i guess)

This is why it's so important to look at what they do, and not listen to what they're saying. Blizzard changes their stance so often that I don't even think THEY know what they're saying anymore(WoD is a great example of this).

WoD is the 'exception', for the first expansion since game launch that make the game bleed that much of subs until for first time ever there was less players than in vanilla wow itself, they actually did add flying as many wanted it
It was also last exp that they show sub numbers, a move that show how their confidence plumbed to the toilet

[Deleted]

If devs know how to make games, and the players don't, I'd argue that in some ways, the players know how to play games (or, rather, how the game is played), and the devs don't.

the difference is that almost every game dev is a player (awkward not to be), and not even 1% of players are game devs. That doesn't make devs perfect, but they have more knowledge of the 2 sides (what is like to play and what is like to develop something playable) and players only know "how they want to play", or "how they think it should be".

Players just care about enjoying the game, devs care about making something accesible, engaging, enjoyable, affordable. It's like if you are a vegan in a restaurant. Of course you only care about veg options, but chefs have to care about vegs, fish, meat, that one allergic to seafood etc.

Also, they have to be very selective with the feedback because they have to find a 5% useful between 95% rants/no real problems. There are 200 "I can't fly so I unsub T_T" for each "make flight whistle account wide".

[Deleted]

A lot of people lack even a basic idea about the game development pipeline, and you can usually tell who because they have the oh-so simple solution to every problem that companies actually working within the games industry face.

We can contest decisions and debate ideas, sure - and we can be critical. But if it's all so easy and obvious to fix, it begs the question of why genius keyboard warriors aren't hired as lead designers of games, themselves, if it's so easy. Maybe if they shared this secret knowledge of how to easily do all these things, games everywhere would be better for it.

Also, all these people who say design decisions are being done as a business decision or to please shareholders or something, hang your head in shame for making such an embarrassingly obvious point and trying to pass it off as something that means anything. Blizzard makes games as a business - of course they need to make money. It's a moot point. Making out as if Blizzard is holding back on making the game better as part of some grand business design is laughable, too. I'm pretty sure most game developers know that the best way to make money from a game is to make that game good. Everyone just has different opinions on what 'good' is.

To be honest, I applaud Blizzard's willingness to be open with people as much as they are. There are frequent Q&As, there's often news and involvement and communication that other games developers simply don't provide. With all the toxicity and hostility games developers get these days, though - death threats from impatient children and useless misinformed commentary from know-it-alls and would-be pundits, I can understand why other companies don't, and why Ion is getting blame - because it's him who's having to open his mouth to tell the players what they don't want to hear.

Ok I get tired of this shit..as a customer I DO NOT NEED TO KNOW AND I DON`T CARE...Not a single person knows every job easy and hard parts and they don`t need to know it...when I`m going to a restaurant or a theatre i don`t know and I don`t care was the food or production was hard or easy to make..only one thing is important: is it satisfying or not? Fucking boring to listen -especially coders and programmers- "our job is soo hard" No it`s not...no job is hard by itself, the lack of skills and abilities make it harder for individuals (let me explain: to run 10000 meters aka 10 km is easy, challenging, hard or impossible? Or is it based on each person skills and abilities? Solving a given math equation is easy, hard or impossible? For some people is easy..for some is impossible, based on knowledge, skills and abilities..If you or anyone find his/her job too hard...that`s not for you...)