Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[moremana]

Sure. It will be a temporary solution anyway - i'm going to change house hopefully during next year, so i'm going to delay the desk project until then because i'll have the actual measures of the room and choose an according furnituire (basically pc will be embedded into one of the lateral cabinets).

Its kind of Ironic.

I actually thought about getting this.

I have put it my cart many times but never hit the "buy button"

At $1,999.00 my wife would have shot me and then posted my death on here...lol.

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I actually thought about having my brother in law in Atlanta pick me up a i7 from Microcenter. I dont know what drugs they take but they are crazy!

wth? $499

[MrPaladinGuy]

To be clear that's just my speculation, but it's the only thing that makes sense really. And I too don't like coffee, maybe a little with my cream and sugar, but that's about it. I'm upgrading from Sandybridge too, from my 2600K.

I never truly needed to upgrade until I entered towns in The Witcher 3, a 2500k @ stock performed very poorly.

I can't help but wonder why the 8700 on Newegg says Out of Stock, 8700k is unavailable, and the 8600k is still available for backorder when the 8700 didn't seem popular at all.

[Kagthul]

Its kind of Ironic.

I actually thought about getting this.

I have put it my cart many times but never hit the "buy button"

At $1,999.00 my wife would have shot me and then posted my death on here...lol.

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I actually thought about having my brother in law in Atlanta pick me up a i7 from Microcenter. I dont know what drugs they take but they are crazy!

wth? $499

Talked to my huddy who is in management at one of the OH stores (Columbus, pretty sure; he manages the build/repairs dept). They started at MSRP yesterday, but apparently sometime in the afternoon, call came in from corporate to jack the price up, AND stop building the PowerSpec (in-house) rigs they had planned for e K-series and dump them back onto the shelves, if they were still sealed.

The in-progress rigs were converted to 8400s and vanilla 8700s unless they had the CPUs already unboxed.

[MrPaladinGuy]

@Slicer299

https://www.extremetech.com/computin...ing-impossible

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Talked to my huddy who is in management at one of the OH stores (Columbus, pretty sure; he manages the build/repairs dept). They started at MSRP yesterday, but apparently sometime in the afternoon, call came in from corporate to jack the price up, AND stop building the PowerSpec (in-house) rigs they had planned for e K-series and dump them back onto the shelves, if they were still sealed.

The in-progress rigs were converted to 8400s and vanilla 8700s unless they had the CPUs already unboxed.

As someone who lived in Westerville for 16 years and within a mile of the 2nd Micro Center ever built... it sounds like corporate has changed over the years. It's entirely possible that it's always been like this but I was unaware.

[Kagthul]

@Slicer299

https://www.extremetech.com/computin...ing-impossible

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As someone who lived in Westerville for 16 years and within a mile of the 2nd Micro Center ever built... it sounds like corporate has changed over the years. It's entirely possible that it's always been like this but I was unaware.

Unsure. I paid MSRP for my 8600K in-store yesterday at around noon, and sure enouh, when i called today, the prices are up -349$ for the 8600K and 499$ for the 8700K

[MonsieuRoberts]

Really curious about what air coolers are going to be reasonable. I'd like to NOT have to use the Noctua hamburger coolers and nothing else. Cryorig H7 would be nice, but 8700K seems to be hot hot HOT!

With very very little to no overclocking do you think decent air coolers will stand a chance? Haven't seen any vids yet about coolers & 8700Ks, stock or OC.

[Evildeffy]

I still have mine ordered and going for € 389,- at Alternate.nl

Of course it's considerably more expensive in MSRP than USD but unlike online shops in most of the US we pay 21% VAT and import.

So yeah ... w/e

However that said I received my GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7 today.. and if I'm honest.. it feels so incredibly fking cheap it's disturbing.
If I compare it to my now dead ASUS Rampage II Extreme I can easily say that my RIIE is a far more solid board.

I really hope the Maximus X Code or Maximus X Apex are on stock soon because this makes me want to throw it in the trash if I didn't pay € 259,- for it.
It actually also has a fan on it I didn't notice at first cooling the VRM, I think it's a 30mm one... I kinda hate these tiny fans because they make an obnoxious sound.
So ... as soon as my CPU comes in I'll have to check that and if it is prevent myself for a month from murdering it.

[Kagthul]

Really curious about what air coolers are going to be reasonable. I'd like to NOT have to use the Noctua hamburger coolers and nothing else. Cryorig H7 would be nice, but 8700K seems to be hot hot HOT!

With very very little to no overclocking do you think decent air coolers will stand a chance? Haven't seen any vids yet about coolers & 8700Ks, stock or OC.

The 8700K was rock-stable and cool (under 75c) at any OC under 4.8 for Jayz (on air), and he had a legit crapper of a chip on the Lottery that required high voltage.

Temps only seem to be an issue if you're pushing 5Ghz on a chip that requires lots of voltage, or trying to go over 5.0 (where they ALL seem to start requiring lots of voltage, good sample or bad).

Im not sure where people get this thought that liquid coolers are so much better at dissipating heat than air - they really aren't until you get into 360 and 420 rads.

An H7, if it cools anywhere near as well as the newer H7 Quad Lumi in my wife's rig, should be plenty for a 4.6-4.9 OC provided you didn't get a "bad" lottery draw on the chip.

[MonsieuRoberts]

The 8700K was rock-stable and cool (under 75c) at any OC under 4.8 for Jayz (on air), and he had a legit crapper of a chip on the Lottery that required high voltage.

Temps only seem to be an issue if you're pushing 5Ghz on a chip that requires lots of voltage, or trying to go over 5.0 (where they ALL seem to start requiring lots of voltage, good sample or bad).

Im not sure where people get this thought that liquid coolers are so much better at dissipating heat than air - they really aren't until you get into 360 and 420 rads.

An H7, if it cools anywhere near as well as the newer H7 Quad Lumi in my wife's rig, should be plenty for a 4.6-4.9 OC provided you didn't get a "bad" lottery draw on the chip.

This vid seems to put an average 240 in line with some of the best Noctua has to offer:





I posed that question as "I don't want to have to get an AIO" because I didn't want to spend twice the price of an above-average air cooler for something that looks better than Noctua's hamburger coolers. Krakens look great but they're both basically $200+ here in Canada, and the performance is in-line with something half of that cost.

I'll just grab an H7 Lumi.

[Sorshen]

Mugen 5 is a beast for <50 bucks currently. It's also quieter than NH-D15.

[Kagthul]

I'll just grab an H7 Lumi.

Ive seen other vids through Jayz and Paul's (and i think even Linus) that dont have quite those results. GN also did a video recently (as in "within the last few months") where they made sure to let the AIOs reach saturation before even starting testing.

The difference just isn't there in the long run.

single-slot AIOs are always going to underperform just because they dont have the surface area to dissipate heat effectively enough, which is why it takes a good 240 to equal a good air cooler - its more about surface area to dissipate heat than it is liquid or not.

Im quite impressed with the H7 Lumi in my wifes rig. I built her with an i5 6600K (i was going to get an R5, but when i walked in Microcenter had the 6600K for like 180, + 40$ off the MoBo, and the MoBo was already on sale for 50$ (down from 100$) so ended up being 10$... and then 10$ off the RAM... couldn't pass it up, and all she does is game so shell be fine).

Its not the best on the lottery, and really wanted to get hot over 4.4Ghz, but ive got it stable at 4.7 and even under Aida 64 it never got above 78c, and during her regular gaming its in the high 50s, low 60s.

And the LED is actually quite tasteful, since it casts downward onto the board.

[Slicer299]

I never truly needed to upgrade until I entered towns in The Witcher 3, a 2500k @ stock performed very poorly.

I can't help but wonder why the 8700 on Newegg says Out of Stock, 8700k is unavailable, and the 8600k is still available for backorder when the 8700 didn't seem popular at all.

Not Available vs Out of Stock vs Backorder all comes down to the retailer knowing when they will get an item back in stock and how many they will receive for sale. Not Available means they have no idea, Out of Stock means they've been promised units but don't have a definitive date or quantity number, Backorder means they've been told exactly when to expect more units and how many. That "exact" date can be a range, such as 2-3 weeks.

As for the 8700's selling out, people will buy anything these days just so they can try and resell it for a profit. I've seen YouTubers talking about waiting in line for things like the SNES Mini, and every single person in line with them was talking about how much money they were going to make on eBay. No one else was in line to buy one to actually play it.

@Slicer299

https://www.extremetech.com/computin...ing-impossible

You're confusing two different things, setting a per core frequency is NOT the same thing as setting a per core multiplier. What you can't do is set your cores to run at specifically 4800Mhz, but as the video I provide proves, you can set a multiplier for each core. While the multiplier achieves an almost identical result, it is still an entirely different method of overclocking. Setting the per core frequency was done via changing the BUS speed, not the multiplier.

Here is that video again showing the Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 bios. 0:29 shows the ability to set per core multipliers. Also, there are several reviewers who set per core overclocks via multiplier. Tek Syndicate is one, they talk about it in that other video I linked previously Running the first 2 cores at 5.1GHz and cores 3-6 at 4.9Ghz to keep temps down. And I know that lab51 website did it too in their review that they posted before the NDA was lifted.

Not only that, but the article you linked does not talk about end user overclocking. It only says that Intel will no longer "disclose" the per core turbo frequency. Which isn't true because they did exactly that. There is even the chart for it in the article. It's possible Intel is saying they are no longer going to "disclose" each individual cores clock speed, and aren't violating that by giving a range like they do. With Single Core, 2-3 Core, 4-5 Core and All Core. Instead of the frequency for each core 1-6.

But the per core Turbo frequency is still changeable by the user, so longer as their motherboard supports it.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Not Available vs Out of Stock vs Backorder all comes down to the retailer knowing when they will get an item back in stock and how many they will receive for sale. Not Available means they have no idea, Out of Stock means they've been promised units but don't have a definitive date or quantity number, Backorder means they've been told exactly when to expect more units and how many. That "exact" date can be a range, such as 2-3 weeks.

As for the 8700's selling out, people will buy anything these days just so they can try and resell it for a profit. I've seen YouTubers talking about waiting in line for things like the SNES Mini, and every single person in line with them was talking about how much money they were going to make on eBay. No one else was in line to buy one to actually play it.

Of course, that's normal.

I was actually just trying to have a positive outlook on the delay and what I was seeing seemed to suggest some of what was being said on /r/intel may be true due to what we were seeing on Newegg and Amazon.

You're confusing two different things, setting a per core frequency is NOT the same thing as setting a per core multiplier. What you can't do is set your cores to run at specifically 4800Mhz, but as the video I provide proves, you can set a multiplier for each core. While the multiplier achieves an almost identical result, it is still an entirely different method of overclocking. Setting the per core frequency was done via changing the BUS speed, not the multiplier.

Here is that video again showing the Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7 bios. 0:29 shows the ability to set per core multipliers. Also, there are several reviewers who set per core overclocks via multiplier. Tek Syndicate is one, they talk about it in that other video I linked previously Running the first 2 cores at 5.1GHz and cores 3-6 at 4.9Ghz to keep temps down. And I know that lab51 website did it too in their review that they posted before the NDA was lifted.

Not only that, but the article you linked does not talk about end user overclocking. It only says that Intel will no longer "disclose" the per core turbo frequency. Which isn't true because they did exactly that. There is even the chart for it in the article. It's possible Intel is saying they are no longer going to "disclose" each individual cores clock speed, and aren't violating that by giving a range like they do. With Single Core, 2-3 Core, 4-5 Core and All Core. Instead of the frequency for each core 1-6.

But the per core Turbo frequency is still changeable by the user, so longer as their motherboard supports it.

I could swear in the early press kit leaks Intel said something about per core overclocking and it being new which was new to me since I'm behind in some features of post Sandy Bridge architecture. Today I just happened to see people talking about MCE and that article after making that one comment I made and I thought you'd want to read it if you hadn't seen it yet. I wasn't trying to state or even imply they were the same thing, it's just a coincidence. A for my original comment I was confused and still was at that point because the term MCE was new to me. There's a thread on OCN where someone's trying to argue the benefit of getting an 8700 non K and enabling MCE, and the counter argument is obviously the cons that come from doing so.

[Slicer299]

Of course, that's normal.

I was actually just trying to have a positive outlook on the delay and what I was seeing seemed to suggest some of what was being said on /r/intel may be true due to what we were seeing on Newegg and Amazon.





I could swear in the early press kit leaks Intel said something about per core overclocking and it being new which was new to me since I'm behind in some features of post Sandy Bridge architecture. Today I just happened to see people talking about MCE and that article after making that one comment I made and I thought you'd want to read it if you hadn't seen it yet. I wasn't trying to state or even imply they were the same thing, it's just a coincidence. A for my original comment I was confused and still was at that point because the term MCE was new to me. There's a thread on OCN where someone's trying to argue the benefit of getting an 8700 non K and enabling MCE, and the counter argument is obviously the cons that come from doing so.

Yeah, overclocking non K chips was disabled at some point, but as I mentioned I saw the Tek Syndicate video that claimed they were able to do it. But they do note they had an engineering sample, so retail chips may not behave the same way. As for K skus I've seen multiple sources showing per core overclocking via setting a turbo frequency for each core. That's for both the 7700K and the 8700K. In all honesty though, that's not something most people will mess with. They'll set an all core overclock and leave it at that. Many of those same people won't even bother setting a voltage offset

[chronia]

I still have mine ordered and going for € 389,- at Alternate.nl

Of course it's considerably more expensive in MSRP than USD but unlike online shops in most of the US we pay 21% VAT and import.

So yeah ... w/e

However that said I received my GigaByte AORUS Z370 Gaming 7 today.. and if I'm honest.. it feels so incredibly fking cheap it's disturbing.
If I compare it to my now dead ASUS Rampage II Extreme I can easily say that my RIIE is a far more solid board.

I really hope the Maximus X Code or Maximus X Apex are on stock soon because this makes me want to throw it in the trash if I didn't pay € 259,- for it.
It actually also has a fan on it I didn't notice at first cooling the VRM, I think it's a 30mm one... I kinda hate these tiny fans because they make an obnoxious sound.
So ... as soon as my CPU comes in I'll have to check that and if it is prevent myself for a month from murdering it.

If its that bad (or you just feel dissapointed) send it back immediately, 14 days right to return by law helps :P I'd return it and just order a mobo as soon as the cpu is getting shipped, more chance for better mobo's te be in stock.

Our prices are not that far off from US though, 389 euro converted to dollar is 456, deduct our 21% taxes from that, since US always advertise the prices without tax and your looking at $376 being your price without taxes. Which is actually below US MSRP i believe.

[Evildeffy]

If its that bad (or you just feel dissapointed) send it back immediately, 14 days right to return by law helps :P I'd return it and just order a mobo as soon as the cpu is getting shipped, more chance for better mobo's te be in stock.

Our prices are not that far off from US though, 389 euro converted to dollar is 456, deduct our 21% taxes from that, since US always advertise the prices without tax and your looking at $376 being your price without taxes. Which is actually below US MSRP i believe.

Nope.. US MSRP is 359,- so I'm still above it.

The problem is that the Maximus X Code won't be out until "November" .. That can be 1 month but it can also be 2 months if it's at the end of that.. I need something in the meanwhile.
That said I have no idea when I'm getting the 8700K though.

Grabbed it from Megekko (the mobo) so they offer a 30 day return even.

But it is quite evident from all the mobos I handled and the best way to describe it is that physically the quality feels like the ASUS PRIME B350-Plus board.. At best.. Where the higher end ASUS boards deffo feel a lot more solid and sturdy.

It's disappointing for a high-end Z370 really.

[chronia]

Nope.. US MSRP is 359,- so I'm still above it.

Hmm i tought US MSRP was $379 and the $359 was the number published on the Intel Sheets which Intels customers pay a piece when buying in batches of 1000 Units.



Atleast it says this: "The Recommended Customer Price (“RCP”) is pricing guidance for Intel products. Prices are for direct Intel customers, typically represent 1,000-unit purchase quantities, and are subject to change without notice. Taxes and shipping, etc. not included. Prices may vary for other package types and shipment quantities, and special promotional arrangements may apply. If sold in bulk, price represents individual unit. Listing of these RCP does not constitute a formal pricing offer from Intel. Please work with your appropriate Intel representative to obtain a formal price quotation."

The problem is that the Maximus X Code won't be out until "November" .. That can be 1 month but it can also be 2 months if it's at the end of that.. I need something in the meanwhile.
That said I have no idea when I'm getting the 8700K though.

Grabbed it from Megekko (the mobo) so they offer a 30 day return even.

But it is quite evident from all the mobos I handled and the best way to describe it is that physically the quality feels like the ASUS PRIME B350-Plus board.. At best.. Where the higher end ASUS boards deffo feel a lot more solid and sturdy.

It's disappointing for a high-end Z370 really.

Why not get the Asus RoG Maximus X Hero then in between if you get the CPU before the really high end boards ship. Atleast from what i've seen its quite a solid board and should be available.

Altough i have to say the MSI 370 Godlike also looks to be a very nice mobo, only the price though.

[Evildeffy]

Hmm i tought US MSRP was $379 and the $359 was the number published on the Intel Sheets which Intels customers pay a piece when buying in batches of 1000 Units.

That prices for distributors, not (r)e-tailers ... So distributors buy batches of more than 1000s and the price goes down.
Like f.ex. before it goes to Alternate.nl it will come from BAS Distributie, prices are considerably lower than the numbers you see on the sheet.

MSRP itself is $ 359,- in the US from Intel... now this doesn't at all mean that they have to adhere to it unless pressure is exerted but they rarely, if ever, do.

Why not get the Asus RoG Maximus X Hero then in between if you get the CPU before the really high end boards ship. Atleast from what i've seen its quite a solid board and should be available.

Altough i have to say the MSI 370 Godlike also looks to be a very nice mobo, only the price though.

Because the price was a little too high and the GigaByte one I can cheat a € 40,- STEAM gift voucher off of.
But honestly though ... I've worked with quite a few Z170 boards from GigaByte, Z270 considerably less and the Z170 series felt a hell of a lot more solid than these Z370 ones.

There are however 3 reasons I skipped the MSI boards:
1. Previous experiences with CONSIDERABLY higher QA issues than any other brand, all the way up to and including Z270 boards.
2. I REALLY REALLY dislike their UEFI user interface, crappy overview and some things have been categorized in the wrong section.
3. € 500,- for the Godlike board? That's pushing it.

Who knows.. I still have time to consider with the GigaByte board... perhaps I'll return and wait or buy a low end PoS.. I dunno just yet.
The 8700K still has to arrive so can't use it anyway just yet.

[chronia]

That prices for distributors, not (r)e-tailers ... So distributors buy batches of more than 1000s and the price goes down.
Like f.ex. before it goes to Alternate.nl it will come from BAS Distributie, prices are considerably lower than the numbers you see on the sheet.

MSRP itself is $ 359,- in the US from Intel... now this doesn't at all mean that they have to adhere to it unless pressure is exerted but they rarely, if ever, do.

Still find it weird though that MSRP would be the same as price per 1000 units (see the picture and text i edited later in my previous post). Esp since Intel lists both the per 1000 RCP Price ($359) on that sheet and on Ark. Then again i dont know the US market wel enough.

Because the price was a little too high and the GigaByte one I can cheat a € 40,- STEAM gift voucher off of.
But honestly though ... I've worked with quite a few Z170 boards from GigaByte, Z270 considerably less and the Z170 series felt a hell of a lot more solid than these Z370 ones.

There are however 3 reasons I skipped the MSI boards:
1. Previous experiences with CONSIDERABLY higher QA issues than any other brand, all the way up to and including Z270 boards.
2. I REALLY REALLY dislike their UEFI user interface, crappy overview and some things have been categorized in the wrong section.
3. € 500,- for the Godlike board? That's pushing it.

Who knows.. I still have time to consider with the GigaByte board... perhaps I'll return and wait or buy a low end PoS.. I dunno just yet.
The 8700K still has to arrive so can't use it anyway just yet.

Yeah, price is quite high for a Hero board, thats for sure.

I haven't really touched a gigabyte board for a while now though except for small testing when someone i know had a board. HAd to much issues with their X58 lineup to consider them really for personal use.

Both Asus and MSI i've had no issues with though over the last few years. I like Asus UEFI interface more though indeed for the same reasons. but quality wise i've had no issues with both brands.

€500 is alot indeed, then again the €330 for the Hero also makes me wonder what the Formula / Code will cost.

[Evildeffy]

Still find it weird though that MSRP would be the same as price per 1000 units (see the picture and text i edited later in my previous post). Esp since Intel lists both the per 1000 RCP Price ($359) on that sheet and on Ark. Then again i dont know the US market wel enough.

It's a complicated mess in the US since they work off of that price but without extra discounts given.
This is on the same marketing principle of the whole Intel vs. AMD thing during 1998 - 2006 with the Intel sabotaging/threatening stuff, just this time without the sabotaging/threatening.

Rest assured ... they get it WAY cheaper than what you see on the surface.

Yeah, price is quite high for a Hero board, thats for sure.

I haven't really touched a gigabyte board for a while now though except for small testing when someone i know had a board. HAd to much issues with their X58 lineup to consider them really for personal use.

Both Asus and MSI i've had no issues with though over the last few years. I like Asus UEFI interface more though indeed for the same reasons. but quality wise i've had no issues with both brands.

€500 is alot indeed, then again the €330 for the Hero also makes me wonder what the Formula / Code will cost.

Well it was originally meant to cost € 300,- for the Hero and the US price estimate for the Code is $ 349,- ... so I'm expecting a simple $ to € conversion here really.
Add in a possible € 30,- buffer and that should be the price range.

From what I've seen/read so far the Maximus X Extreme won't make it's appearance until Z390 hits the streets.