Templates Gone: Anyone Else Wanna See This?

[Matthias]

One of the primary motivations for me to PvP was to obtain PvP gear so that I could wreck people in World PvP. I was never a ganker. My style was more so a white knight, I'd help people with gankers. And if you ever ganked me I'd literally put everything I had aside for that day to hunt that scum bag down, and kill em twice at least.

PvP Gear is now gone, World PvP is a joke, and hell you can't even duel, which was a great way to hone your skills. I just feel like Templates are a huge spit in the face for many types of PvPers. Also along with the fact that you now have 0 custimization options. This is an MMO, not a MOBA.

I thought the system they had in WoD was near perfect. Your gear would scale up in PvP combat. PvP gear's only advantages were through it's set bonuses. If you were raiding the current tier, you could PvP fine until you collected your PvP gear. All they had to do was allow lower end gear to scale up to higher base level, so you wouldn't get absolutely wrecked on a fresh character.

[Hisholyness]

Despite not liking it, templates are actually healthy for gameplay and balance. Although its not as fun and overpowering, it creates a more level field by reducing outliers.

edit: the same reason it removes outliers is the very reason its not fun

[RoKPaNda]

I'd love to see it expanded to Mythic raiding actually.

[Schattenlied]

Yes, I want to see it gone.

There has been a system in the game for years that would work far better... It was never utilized very well, but blizzard has, for years, had the ability to add a tag to an ability to make it do X% less(or more) to players...

This works in World PvP, it works in Duels (both of which are entirely unaffected by templates), and also works in BGs... All balancing should be done through that... Continue to scale people's gear Ilvl to a specific amount in instanced PvP, but all damage and healing tuning should be done with the "does X% more/less to players in PvP" modifier.

No damage tuning should be done through reductions to strength/agi/int, because those stats do not only alter damage, which means every time a class gets a damage nerf, their survivability also goes down if their survival spells scale off attack power or spell power... Templates are a flawed system, the old one was far better, it just didn't get used.

[Matthias]

I'd love to see it expanded to Mythic raiding actually.

Mythic Raiding it would kind of make sense since people just sim and min max their gear regardless. Where as in PvP you can have a preference.

[Schattenlied]

Despite not liking it, templates are actually healthy for gameplay and balance. Although its not as fun and overpowering, it creates a more level field by reducing outliers.

edit: the same reason it removes outliers is the very reason its not fun

ilvl scaling is the only thing required for healthy gameplay, no other part of the template system is good.

[Mafic]

Templates will be removed. PVP player base shrank because of templates and pruning.

[Arkthugal]

Hell no. Being able to jump into PvP without needing to farm for weeks to get PvP gear is awesome.

Also, for your complaints about World PvP, templates are only active in instanced PvP. World PvP, including duels, still goes by the gear you're wearing, so if you're getting wrecked in World PvP then you should git gud.

[Hisholyness]

ilvl scaling is the only thing required for healthy gameplay, no other part of the template system is good.

ok so then scaling what? iLVL already is your power level, so how would making your scaling factor scale off itself again help

[Socialhealer]

no templates are required as elemental i can actually get spells off vs melee, in the world im dead in a stun.

[FAILoZOFF]

I'd want to get back to WoD design, it was very good, not perfect, but best we have seen, with exception to that:
I'd also go for 150% crit modifier for both PvP and PvE, not only PvP

I'd love to see it expanded to Mythic raiding actually.

I have been thinking of it, but then people would complain about lack of "choice" even tho in reality they have close to none when it comes to that

Hell no. Being able to jump into PvP without needing to farm for weeks to get PvP gear is awesome.

WoD, what weeks? Now getting all PvP talents takes longer than gearing in last season of WoD, it was THAT awesome
Also, for your complaints about World PvP, templates are only active in instanced PvP. World PvP, including duels, still goes by the gear you're wearing, so if you're getting wrecked in World PvP then you should git gud GEAR so you can one shot too, as long as you are rogue, or at least melee.[/QUOTE]
Fixed, but also people complaining about templates don't usually want the mess of what wPvP is right now, its actually the other way around, This mexx exists just because PvP is balanced with templates in mind, thats why wPvP is such sht now.

[Kralljin]

Templates will be removed. PVP player base shrank because of templates and pruning.

I honestly believe the pruning part is not true.

I believe most people enjoyed PvP more when classes didn't require 4-5 buttons to press to do damage.

[Thelxi]

Yes get rid of that shit.

[FAILoZOFF]

I honestly believe the pruning part is not true.
I believe most people enjoyed PvP more when classes didn't require 4-5 buttons to press to do damage.

kind of yes, kind of no
back in the days we have had far less, and easier to use (mechanically) basic rotations/priorities to deal damage/healing, but also had more actually "fun" stuff going on, like cc and general utility
That's why a lot people playing PvP complained about PvE race... in PvP, because when cc and utility stopped having such an emphasis, ability to deal raw damage, healing became far more important and well... harder.

[Mafic]

Hell no. Being able to jump into PvP without needing to farm for weeks to get PvP gear is awesome.
.

If your concordance isn't high enough and your honor level to unlock all honor talents you can't jump in to do PVP.

This is the placebo effect convincing Blizz that under geared and under developed characters can jump right in. But that isn't true because it was true you would see more people playing alts in PVP and queue times would be better.

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly believe the pruning part is not true.

I believe most people enjoyed PvP more when classes didn't require 4-5 buttons to press to do damage.

Pruning hurts utility and also damage/healing requiring some set up. Right now people use 1-2 buttons to do damage without set up.

[Arkthugal]

Fixed, but also people complaining about templates don't usually want the mess of what wPvP is right now, its actually the other way around, This mexx exists just because PvP is balanced with templates in mind, thats why wPvP is such sht now.

World PvP is and has always been shit, that's nothing new.

If your concordance isn't high enough and your honor level to unlock all honor talents you can't jump in to do PVP.

This is the placebo effect convincing Blizz that under geared and under developed characters can jump right in. But that isn't true because it was true you would see more people playing alts in PVP and queue times would be better.

Alts are shit, don't play alts.

[Kralljin]

Pruning hurts utility and also damage/healing requiring some set up. Right now people use 1-2 buttons to do damage without set up.

And that was different to the past?

Just as an example, Arms Warrior:

Vanilla / BC: Charge, Hamstring, MS.

(Post) Wotlk: Charge, Hamstring, Colossus Smash, MS.

What is true that a lot of classes have gained CD's and on demand burst to kill people, but the "setup time" from a Damage POV didn't really increase.

That's why a lot people playing PvP complained about PvE race... in PvP, because when cc and utility stopped having such an emphasis, ability to deal raw damage, healing became far more important and well... harder.

Unless you count every CC that came and go over the years (Deep Freeze, Throwdown, Psychic Horror, etc.) the amount of CC's did not seriously decrease, too much CC is / was a common complaint, because in Arena, the right comp can trap you for like 30 seconds in a CC if you fuck up once.

In my opinion, the Damage in PvP just bounces between the extremes of being super burst heavy and just trying too oom the enemy healer.

[Schattenlied]

ok so then scaling what? iLVL already is your power level, so how would making your scaling factor scale off itself again help

ilvl scaling means: you go into a battleground/arena, everyone's gear is set to X ilvl. The benefit to this over templates is you can choose what stats you want on your gear, templates don't allow that, and it honestly sucks...

- - - Updated - - -

no templates are required as elemental i can actually get spells off vs melee, in the world im dead in a stun.

templates aren't required for that, there are other balance methods that can be used just as effectively, and in addition, they would also work in the game world, and in duels, which means you wouldn't die in a stun out there either.

Templates are actually the worse option.

[Linri]

hell yeah get rid of it!
majority of people play for gear, and to have it templated to some least common denominator was just silly

[Icecat]

Templates 100% need to be removed for unranked BGs if they have any hope of reviving that dead shit.