Should blizzard break DBM?

[KaPe]

People raid with DBM?

WTF?

You can raid without addons. Like a normal person.

You can also raid with one hand tied behind your back and still get kills - doesn't mean it's the optimal way of playing.

[Frolk]

People raid with DBM?

WTF?

You can raid without addons. Like a normal person.

You mean "raid" LFR without addons, yes thats fine, do Mythic mistress without an addon then report back to us.

[FertsBlert]

DBM should be removed, its should be a challenging/ adventure game, not a math class with timers and other spammy things in your face...

I'd be absolutely fine with that, if the basic UI was capable of telling me just WTF is going to happen or if Blizz always coded in a tell animation that was large and easily visible so I could tell what was coming. As neither are true lets keep the bossmods.

[Deleted]

TL;DR: That isn't a recent picture, nor is it from any currently available raid (the raid in the picture is no longer in the game).

So its from a private server? cause no in game raid was ever removed....

[Onikaroshi]

So its from a private server? cause no in game raid was ever removed....

It's ZG, I guess he means removed in its original form?

[Plutarch78]

Or you could choose not to use them?

[Squishy Tia]

So its from a private server? cause no in game raid was ever removed....

Never played the original Zul'Gurub did you? That raid no longer exists. It's a crappy 5-man dungeon that isn't even half of what its former raid form was. Zul'Aman was also removed and replaced with a lesser 5-man dungeon (which thankfully was a lot more challenging at its introduction than the ZG 5-man dungeon was).

[George Costanza]

You mean "raid" LFR without addons, yes thats fine, do Mythic mistress without an addon then report back to us.

I did mythic garrosh at its time without Addons and have seen plenty people do the same. mythic raids are quite easy.

[Pony Soldier]

Unless Blizzard comes up with their own DBM then no. DBM has been the most helpful mod I ever downloaded to WoW and I've had it for years. People are always bitching how some people will die because they don't know the fights or cause a wipe because of a mechanic they didn't know about and how they're always in a rush to get things done and "I don't have time to be teaching people how the fight works". Well DBM solves that issue. Take it out without replacing it will cause those problems to come back and people will be bitching about it once again.

If you want people to not die and cause a wipe so you can get through the raid as quick and painless as possible then keep DBM. I don't see a reason to get rid of it anyway. I mean it's a helpful tool for those who don't know the mechanics and would like to see the timers of the boss abilities to prepare themselves. If you don't want it then don't download it, simple.

[Mlz]

I did mythic garrosh at its time without Addons and have seen plenty people do the same. mythic raids are quite easy.

Mythic garrosh? I hope you mean HC Garrosh and even then it was a 'logical' fight that allowed to plan shit beforehand. Like group 1 takes closest left group of adds during the intermission etc, also you just needed a set people to bait the weapon and so on (and I personally preferred that type of fights). Would have loved to see you kill Archimonde M without any addons within the timespan of world ~500 kills, though.

Edit: ya, ok, nvm. You killed Garrosh Mythic for the first time in early WoD. No shit it was easy.

[nlc]

I don't see how it would make the game better to block these UI customisations. All these addons do is present the raid situation in a way that is easier to consume than not always easy to see visual effects. I think you can, however, make an argument that addons that do calculations and tell players what to do should not be allowed. For example on Misstres Sass'zine the WeakAura that calculates who can soak hydra shots right now and then assigns available players to soak a particular shot. IMO, this is more than just re-presenting information it's playing the game for the players.

[KaPe]

Mythic garrosh? I hope you mean HC Garrosh and even then it was a 'logical' fight that allowed to plan shit beforehand. Like group 1 takes closest left group of adds during the intermission etc, also you just needed a set people to bait the weapon and so on (and I personally preferred that type of fights). Would have loved to see you kill Archimonde M without any addons within the timespan of world ~500 kills, though.

Edit: ya, ok, nvm. You killed Garrosh Mythic for the first time in early WoD. No shit it was easy.

See, even if he did kill Heroic Garrosh back when it was still relevant, he was probably one of those guys who are a constant pain for the Raid Leader. When we call out timers, we do it to help you out with the most important stuff, but we still assume you keep an eye on boss timers - in case we're a bit late, too quiet etc. When a boss mod has a character automatically /Say something important, we assume everyone does it when need - so when there's a special snowflake who thinks he's too good for that, he can mess things up for others and waste our time. When you lie to us about addons and claim you have them, only to wipe us at some crucial moment, it's even worse.

There are guys who are good enough to do most mythic bosses without DBM. However, if they are that good, they should realize that boss mods make things more convenient for them *and* 19 other people. Best players in the world use such addons and if *they* aren't too good for that, neither are you.

(Also, doing doomfire soak duty on Archimonde without timers... fuck that. It was stressful enough with boss mod, I'd never try it without addons. That's not even getting into phase 3 debuffs, it'd be a nightmare)

It's like people only think about "How difficult is it to notice Nasty Debuff On You" and stop there. In reality, it's probably four different debuffs that need to be spread out, with some of them ending in very precise locations. You're totally going to know if you're "2nd from the left" without any addons.

[Deleted]

Never played the original Zul'Gurub did you? That raid no longer exists. It's a crappy 5-man dungeon that isn't even half of what its former raid form was. Zul'Aman was also removed and replaced with a lesser 5-man dungeon (which thankfully was a lot more challenging at its introduction than the ZG 5-man dungeon was).

Ehh wut. The ZG dungeon was miles harder than ZA in every shape unless you went for bear in ZA.

[Talvindius]

You don't need DBM to raid, even at a mythic level. It would make progress slower but the fights are still far from "too difficult" without DBM.

I wouldn't mind if they broke DBM but only if they added an ingame pull timer. That's all I really use DBM for anyways.

[Wewlad]

Absolutely. DBM has to be one of the worst influences on raid encounter design, if not the worst.

All it has encouraged is the inclusion of things to do mechanics that have no merit aside from occupying players because they're being directed by the addon.

It's been a big problem I've had with raiding for a long time. Encounters tend not to be designed as real challenges but mere checklists.

[Thage]

Yeah, 'cause Lucifron is such an engaging fight.

[Kazuchika]

Yeah, 'cause Lucifron is such an engaging fight.

Hey man me standing in the corner and spam clicking my decursive list was the peak of raid design idk what you're talking about..

[Deleted]

if they remove dbm, they must do easier fight, kj m without dmb is unkillable for 99% of guills

[Deleted]

would be funny with Ion's love for RNG (i truly believe they got an RNG temple inside blizz hq) if a boss in the future didnt use abilities in a timed way but rather in an rng way.
End of times

[Deleted]

Break the noobs. Break DBM.
Make Azeroth great again.