Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Directionalk9]

If we compare to class halls, a player might actually get more - say, a ship encompassing the features of three class halls, because it is a single ship shared by everyone. (This is a good thing. They shouldn't have split effort into class halls in my opinion. My point is that they will be putting less into new things and more into existing things once again.)

As much as I am a lore and questing junkie, I feel the same way about splitting class halls and by extension the class campaigns. A ship feature wont be split into 12 mini developments and hypothetically offer more than a themed room to send you slaves out. However I don't want a potential ship feature to be a prison barge similar to the Garrisons.

[Shadochi]

No, I don't count Artifacts/AP, WQs, PVP Brawls, M+ because they are small alterations of existing gameplay and I am talking about big new things. Big. Not small.

LFD was big.

If LFD was big then so is M+, since it made dungeons more relevant than ever, and the only thing it kept from the challenge modes is the timer.
And LFD also wasn't the only new thing using the group making system. No it isn't really a gameplay system in that sense as it is a utility system/QoL improvement. All the gameplay systems behind it were there even before it (N and HC dungeons), while before M+ we didn't have dungeons with scaling mobs. (different than you being scaled down to a preset dungeon difficulty)

Another thing that comes to mind is the dynamic scaling of mobs. Like it or not its a big new system.

Artifacts aren't really a revamp of anything in particular and its a system that depending on how far you leveled it changes how you play your class a bit (more prominent before 7.2). And grinding AP isn't the only thing tied to it. It also has the different ways of unlocking appearances through which artifacts add more gameplay.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Dragons are coming.

[lazypeon100]

I didn't realize people were all that dissatisfied with classes in general in Legion (my vibe was more that people missed certain abilities and so on, but that it wasn't a killer issue), but if they are, and that leads to a new role, which presumably would hybrid support or CC-DPS (or both of those as roles), the two roles WoW dumped when compared to EQ/DAoC, I would be over the moon. Now you've got me kind of hyped, man!

I've mained hunter for years, overall have been dissatisfied with hunter design in legion. On the official foruns there's a lot more debate about the state of the class, arguments about survival break out daily, and I mase a thread on the class development section that is over 840 posts long now with discussion talking about things that went wrong with legion design, and how to improve them.

I'm not saying this is the case for every class, or even every person who plays a particular class, but I think class design was the biggest drawback to legion for me. Everything else about this expansion has felt pretty good.

[Directionalk9]

Artifacts aren't really a revamp of anything in particular and its a system that depending on how far you leveled it changes how you play your class a bit (more prominent before 7.2). And grinding AP isn't the only thing tied to it. It also has the different ways of unlocking appearances through which artifacts add more gameplay.

Artifacts are just the old school talent trees, that unlock and progress at end game as opposed to leveling game, with a Transmog mini-game attached.

[Shizari]

Dragons are coming.

My night elf already has draconic language unlocked though xD

[Shadochi]

Artifacts are just the old school talent trees, that unlock and progress at end game as opposed to leveling game, with a Transmog mini-game attached.

Don't really see how.
Yes you can choose the path but in the end you can have all the trauts unlike the Old talent tree.
And it's not unlocked at endgame, it is unlocked and you can start progressing it at 100 (98 actually I think). Again the progressing was more prominent prior to 7.2
And the way you earn the points in Old tallent trees vs "currency" for traits is not similar at all. One is by leveling up and the other is by doing various types of content, tho leveling itself doesn't award AP.

Not even the interface is similar. And gear (relics) never affected old talents like traits in Artifacts. The only thing that comes close to it is that there are a few traits per artifact weapon that can have an X amount of upgrades, but in Legion that amount of upgrades again depends on your relics.

[Directionalk9]

I've mained hunter for years, overall have been dissatisfied with hunter design in legion. On the official foruns there's a lot more debate about the state of the class, arguments about survival break out daily, and I mase a thread on the class development section that is over 840 posts long now with discussion talking about things that went wrong with legion design, and how to improve them.

I'm not saying this is the case for every class, or even every person who plays a particular class, but I think class design was the biggest drawback to legion for me. Everything else about this expansion has felt pretty good.

I concede to the census that Class Design failed in Legion, but some aspects of the classes are dumb. Take hunter, since vanilla (last time i played one) they had three specs, all of which involved standing back and shooting while a pet swipes. Survival is one of my favorite specs now. It fits the Hunter aesthetic, but offers something different.

My feeling on classes and their spec are, if one spec doesn't offer a different role from another, its not needed. Why are all three mage specs ranged casters? Why are two of the warrior specs Melee dps?
I think Shaman is a good example; Melee DPS, Range DPS, Healer. Druid is probably the best (not my favorite class) but each spec offers a change in combat roles.

Yes, I'm prepared for the hate train on this opinion.

[Fahrad Wagner]

My night elf already has draconic language unlocked though xD

How was that possible already? I can't recall!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I concede to the census that Class Design failed in Legion, but some aspects of the classes are dumb. Take hunter, since vanilla (last time i played one) they had three specs, all of which involved standing back and shooting while a pet swipes. Survival is one of my favorite specs now. It fits the Hunter aesthetic, but offers something different.

My feeling on classes and their spec are, if one spec doesn't offer a different role from another, its not needed. Why are all three mage specs ranged casters? Why are two of the warrior specs Melee dps?
I think Shaman is a good example; Melee DPS, Range DPS, Healer. Druid is probably the best (not my favorite class) but each spec offers a change in combat roles.

Yes, I'm prepared for the hate train on this opinion.

I think it's ok for warriors to have two options to DPS(Using one two hander or two two handers/two one handers). For those that want gameplay to go with what they envision their character to do.

As for mages, well for me I chose Arcane because to me it feels the most Mage to me(Thematically). I'd like if I could use more fire and Ice spells to attack with. It would be nice and I'd like my Mage more. Anyways, I also respect people who want to me a pyromancer/ Frost Mage.

[lazypeon100]

I concede to the census that Class Design failed in Legion, but some aspects of the classes are dumb. Take hunter, since vanilla (last time i played one) they had three specs, all of which involved standing back and shooting while a pet swipes. Survival is one of my favorite specs now. It fits the Hunter aesthetic, but offers something different.

My feeling on classes and their spec are, if one spec doesn't offer a different role from another, its not needed. Why are all three mage specs ranged casters? Why are two of the warrior specs Melee dps?
I think Shaman is a good example; Melee DPS, Range DPS, Healer. Druid is probably the best (not my favorite class) but each spec offers a change in combat roles.

Yes, I'm prepared for the hate train on this opinion.

I personally disagree with this stance, and it has been argued to death. I'd rather not get into it though, at least not in this thread haha. Overall I think thw class design needs some serious help, and I don't mind a melee hunter I just think the implementation was done very poorly.

[Deleted]

Belfs are 20% of all WOW characters (not just the Horde)

how can BE not just be Horde????

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Don't really see how.
Yes you can choose the path but in the end you can have all the trauts unlike the Old talent tree.
And it's not unlocked at endgame, it is unlocked and you can start progressing it at 100 (98 actually I think). Again the progressing was more prominent prior to 7.2
And the way you earn the points in Old tallent trees vs "currency" for traits is not similar at all. One is by leveling up and the other is by doing various types of content, tho leveling itself doesn't award AP.

Not even the interface is similar. And gear (relics) never affected old talents like traits in Artifacts. The only thing that comes close to it is that there are a few traits per artifact weapon that can have an X amount of upgrades, but in Legion that amount of upgrades again depends on your relics.

Old Talent Trees are something I still find very intriguing. It would seem like Artifact Traits fills that void, but you are right that in the end you unlock everything. There's no real choice if you're expected to have everything in order to raid anyway.

Honestly, even the New Talent Trees suffer the issue of people looking up a guide and just picking talents based on that.

No matter what Blizz does, players will expect you to look up a min/max guide. So.... someone remind me why Blizz got rid of the old talent trees?

[Deleted]

Iirc Alliance was indeed more popular before the addition of BEs to Horde.

really? from my experience kids go alliance, grown ups go horde but that may be just my decades of experience

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

how can BE not just be Horde????

https://realmpop.com/us.html is how.

Also for the record they're 16.1% of the US Game's population.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Old Talent Trees are something I still find very intriguing. It would seem like Artifact Traits fills that void, but you are right that in the end you unlock everything. There's no real choice if you're expected to have everything in order to raid anyway.

Honestly, even the New Talent Trees suffer the issue of people looking up a guide and just picking talents based on that.

No matter what Blizz does, players will expect you to look up a min/max guide. So.... someone remind me why Blizz got rid of the old talent trees?

Because it was even more "Cookie Cutter" then talents were post Wrath. Some of them were just blatent damage upgrades to certain attacks or stats. As talents, that's well a no brainer.

[Directionalk9]

I think it's ok for warriors to have two options to DPS(Using one two hander or two two handers/two one handers). For those that want gameplay to go with what they envision their character to do.

As for mages, well for me I chose Arcane because to me it feels the most Mage to me(Thematically). I'd like if I could use more fire and Ice spells to attack with. It would be nice and I'd like my Mage more. Anyways, I also respect people who want to me a pyromancer/ Frost Mage.

As for the warrior, to me, this could easily be done with talent choice.

I loathe playing casters, outside of a resto shaman, but needless to say its not a hill I'm willing to die on, it's just how I view things when making an alt.

[Shizari]

How was that possible already? I can't recall!

Fuck if I know xD. I just logged in one day during WoD and... bam! Common, Darnassian, and Draconic.

[Directionalk9]

Fuck if I know xD. I just logged in one day during WoD and... bam! Common, Darnassian, and Draconic.

Mate, you're learning languages in your sleep. Good on ya.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Fuck if I know xD. I just logged in one day during WoD and... bam! Common, Darnassian, and Draconic.

Fascinating, I remembering hearing this kind of stories with Draconic and Titan languages.