Vice President Mike Pence leaves Colts-49ers game after players reportedly kneel

[Pannonian]

Literally every human who had a problem with Tebow kneeling to pray, defends Kapernick and company's kneeling, and vice verse. The hypocrisy is rampant on both sides.

If i run out of rice for dinner the next time, i'll just ask a trump supporter. They always seem to find another side...

[Lynarii]

I'm surprised that the right-wingers are okay with blatant virtue-signalling on behalf of Trump and Pence.

You think they give a shit about respecting veterans? Trump bought his way out of military service, and you can just look at his comments specifically about McCain's service to see just how much respect he actually has for veterans. Trump and Pence are upset because Trump and Pence are being disrespected, the vets are just a prop that they're using.

Anecdotal is anecdotal, but the vets in my family are all pretty much "Well, I wouldn't do it. But it doesn't hurt me either." Hell, someone should go ask Mattis what he feels about the whole thing. Oh wait... they did. He responded with "I'm the Secretary of Defense. We defend the country." Because lets be honest, a bunch of NFL players with non-violent opinions simply aren't worth the time of the people who are actually working to keep the US safe.

[Tijuana]

If i run out of rice for dinner the next time, i'll just ask a trump supporter. They always seem to find another side...

You literally do not know a single human who supports kneeling for the anthem, as well as kneeling for prayer. There are no good guys, including you. Hypocrites are all that exist in this issue.

[Pannonian]

You literally do not know a single human who supports kneeling for the anthem, as well as kneeling for prayer. There are no good guys, including you. Hypocrites are all that exist in this issue.

You seem to know a lot about me, or not, because i actually know people who support it, and coming from a very catholic country, kneeling football (or in this case soccer) players are not something news-worthy. I think both are very valid.

Why you need to bring a second side into the discussion about pence leaving a game for a PR stunt i dont know. Though... lets be real, we both know why you bring it up, because you need to deflect from your VP virtue signaling...

so please, spare me your feigned outrage about hypocrisy on both sides.

Did "on both sides" replace MAGA as your slogan btw.?

[Sorshen]

Ah, Pence... a living monument of hypocrisy.

[Tijuana]

You seem to know a lot about me, or not, because i actually know people who support it, and coming from a very catholic country, kneeling football (or in this case soccer) players are not something news-worthy. I think both are very valid.

Why you need to bring a second side into the discussion about pence leaving a game for a PR stunt i dont know. Though... lets be real, we both know why you bring it up, because you need to deflect from your VP virtue signaling...

so please, spare me your feigned outrage about hypocrisy on both sides.

Did "on both sides" replace MAGA as your slogan btw.?

What are you on about? You can't possibly be that...

Look, I get that you Euros are obsessed with us. But, the fact is, those among us who are actually here understand my point. The point is, literally 110% of the people who were all up in arms when Tim Tebow would pray on the field, are now defending douche bags who hate our country, that kneel for the anthem. This is entirely a US issue, despite your fanboy interest. It's complete and total hypocrisy on both sides, and you likely can't really understand it, since you are not an American, sorry.

[Orbitus]

Literally every human who had a problem with Tebow kneeling to pray, defends Kapernick and company's kneeling, and vice verse. The hypocrisy is rampant on both sides.

Actually, I never gave a fuck about Tebow, because he fucking sucked when he was a football player.

[Pannonian]

What are you on about? You can't possibly be that...

Look, I get that you Euros are obsessed with us. But, the fact is, those among us who are actually here understand my point. The point is, literally 110% of the people who were all up in arms when Tim Tebow would pray on the field, are now defending douche bags who hate our country, that kneel for the anthem. This is entirely a US issue, despite your fanboy interest. It's complete and total hypocrisy on both sides, and you likely can't really understand it, since you are not an American, sorry.

I would challenge your claim of 110% as @Orbitus just posted... but even if... dont you hold the VP of the US to a higher standard than some random leftist blokes on MMOC?

See thats the problem: you might call it obsession, and you may be right in essence, but nevertheless what the US president does, has a lot of impact on my country and my life - so i'm interested in a stable US, and that is just not happening right now. Just to give you an example: our election right now is basically 90% about ME immigrants. Not pointing fingers if it was good or bad - but what caused all the refugees/immigration from ME in the first place? Again, not judging, but what the US does has a big impact on europe - way more than the other way round.

And of course you can dismiss anything i say because there is an ocean between us, but does that mean your own comments about europe are just as baseless?

[Tijuana]

I would challenge your claim of 110% as @Orbitus just posted... but even if... dont you hold the VP of the US to a higher standard than some random leftist blokes on MMOC?

See thats the problem: you might call it obsession, and you may be right in essence, but nevertheless what the US president does, has a lot of impact on my country and my life - so i'm interested in a stable US, and that is just not happening right now. Just to give you an example: our election right now is basically 90% about ME immigrants. Not pointing fingers if it was good or bad - but what caused all the refugees/immigration from ME in the first place? Again, not judging, but what the US does has a big impact on europe - way more than the other way round.

And of course you can dismiss anything i say because there is an ocean between us, but does that mean your own comments about europe are just as baseless?

What standard did he not meet? I really don't give a flying fuck what he does with his free time. But, I certainly don't object to him leaving a sports ball game, because some douche bags decided they hate America.

The notion that some idiot linebacker, has some great and high minded thing to say about politics, is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard. Being lectured, effectively, by factually the dumbest Americans to graduate college, if they even did, is just about the dumbest notion I have ever heard. Morons who didn't belong in college in the first place, now telling me I should pay attention to what they think, is about the worst way imaginable, to move the conversation forward.

You people need to get over us. We factually do not have the impact over you that you describe. Pay more attention to your own policies, and you will gain more than simply throwing stones at ours.

My comments about Europe are not baseless. I feel sorry for those who got hoodwinked in to letting a bunch of Belgians and Germans run their lives. These are not historic centers of good decision making, to say the least. France is better off being France, etc.

[Skroe]

Polls say a lot of things that end up not being based in any reality. You're living that personal nightmare, so there's that.

Are you kidding me? Mueller's slow crucifixion of your dotard-in-chief is giving me exactly what I want.

I've bee on the losing side of Presidential elections before. That's not a big deal. I will again in the future. You can't win them all. But the past 11 months have done more to utterly discredit the Alt-Right, Trumpism and the likes of you than four or eight years of Hillary ever could have done.

I'll say again what I've been saying for months. Trump is symptomatic. The real problem is the Americans who compromised their integrity, their decency, their honor and their patriotism to support him. You know. Like you.

Just remember, you voted for the guy who was making dog-whistle racist statements for a full year. A guy who smashed through meaningful political and conduct norms and desparaged important pillars of the American character. I didn't. I agreed with perhaps 20% of Hillary's platform, but I stood against Trump out of principle. You think I'd rather win a Presidential election? Don't get me wrong, I would have liked to beat Trump, a lot. But I got my integrity. You sold yours for short term political gain a very long time ago.

I'd rather lose with my soul intact than sell it out like you did. Because I get to live my entire life, proudly saying, I was against Trump from a year before he won the election. You don't. You're gonna be the person that 30 years from now lies about it to their kids and neighbors or retcons both their level and duration of support. "Oh no I never really supported him. I just liked what he said about draining the swap." That's you.

I wish you good luck in that, lol. Because my conscience is clear on that account for life!

[Tijuana]

Are you kidding me? Mueller's slow crucifixion of your dotard-in-chief is giving me exactly what I want.

I've bee on the losing side of Presidential elections before. That's not a big deal. I will again in the future. You can't win them all. But the past 11 months have done more to utterly discredit the Alt-Right, Trumpism and the likes of you than four or eight years of Hillary ever could have done.

I'll say again what I've been saying for months. Trump is symptomatic. The real problem is the Americans who compromised their integrity, their decency, their honor and their patriotism to support him. You know. Like you.

Just remember, you voted for the guy who was making dog-whistle racist statements for a full year. A guy who smashed through meaningful political and conduct norms and desparaged important pillars of the American character. I didn't. I agreed with perhaps 20% of Hillary's platform, but I stood against Trump out of principle. You think I'd rather win a Presidential election? Don't get me wrong, I would have liked to beat Trump, a lot. But I got my integrity. You sold yours for short term political gain a very long time ago.

I'd rather lose with my soul intact than sell it out like you did. Because I get to live my entire life, proudly saying, I was against Trump from a year before he won the election. You don't. You're gonna be the person that 30 years from now lies about it to their kids and neighbors or retcons both their level and duration of support. "Oh no I never really supported him. I just liked what he said about draining the swap." That's you.

I wish you good luck in that, lol. Because my conscience is clear on that account for life!

Dude.....you are in for a huge disappointment. If you understood Washington, you would know what everyone knows by now. If there was a smoking gun, we would have known that LONG ago, buddy. We know the pattern on Trumps sharts, at this point. If you think there is something we don't know, I literally just feel sorry for you. I really hope your dangerous militia groups don't freak out and get violent, when Mueller comes back with either nothing, or some wholly unrelated shit, like w/e Manafort or Flynn is up to. Mueller will NEVER indict Trump. You need to prepare yourself for that.

How can you still call yourself a conservative? How can you espouse every Liberal cheap tactic, like so-called dog whistles, and still call yourself a Conservative? You will never again vote for another Republican, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you can admit who you have really become: an Antifa supporting radical.

Something something, you are better than any who disagree. Really, you are even buying in to the self serving virtue signaling of the left? Are you wearing a Che shirt too?

[Tijuana]

Wow, that's a whole lot of emotional words when you could have just said "gee you're right, polls don't often work out for my agenda being realized in real-life".

- - - Updated - - -



I never really recognized him as anyone worth remembering on this forum until he became this "I used to be a Republican and now I"m mad at Trump supporters" pawn of the leftists on this forum. I mean, he may have used to have certain conservative leanings, but at this point he sounds like every rabid-mouthed moonbat I've ever heard.

He is Joe Skroeborough, resident "I agree with the right on everything except this one issue", and every issue is this one issue. He is like a fake Conservative. He isn't Conservative, but he plays one on TV. He is kind of like John McCain; he lacks the intellectual capacity to understand political concepts, but he will vote for any war, any where, any time.

[Orbitus]

He is Joe Skroeborough, resident "I agree with the right on everything except this one issue", and every issue is this one issue. He is like a fake Conservative. He isn't Conservative, but he plays one on TV. He is kind of like John McCain; he lacks the intellectual capacity to understand political concepts, but he will vote for any war, any where, any time.

So, because Skroe has integrity, he isn't a conservative? You sold yourself to a fucking racist.

[Orbitus]

Skroe has misguided beliefs that he is selling as integrity and God know's what else. I'm sure every leftist here will jump on defending their golden goose though.

Yeah, I would rather have a sane rational Republican over the current racists and extreme right wingers that are currently running the party. You know, someone that could compromise on something instead of someone that will risk destroying the country to get their way like the current GOP terrorists in the government that have risked defaulting on our debt to make a political statement that backfired on them.

[Orbitus]

Yeah I would love to have Democrats that let us have our way wholesale too, whoops I meant compromise.

Really? Because I have never seen a Democrat bill go through without some sort of Republican input. Not like the attempts by Republicans since they took the house in 2010.

[Skroe]

Skroe has misguided beliefs that he is selling as integrity and God know's what else. I'm sure every leftist here will jump on defending their golden goose though.

I've spelled out my conservative principles many times, in rather extrem detail. I did it just the other day in fact, on the issue of Healthcare. The liberals, or leftists as you call them in your utterly boring way (really... c'mon...), didn't exactly love what I have to say. And they didn't in the years before Trump. And they won't in the years after trump.

I want a shrunken Federal government. I want significantly more responsibilities moved from the Federal government to the States. I want a pro-business economic environment. I'm generally speaking anti-union. I'm very pro-military. I'm suspect of international institutions and international law. I'm even, to a degree, economically nationalist. Some of mine and Trumps positions have a fair bit of overlap. I too, have long believed, that America has been utterly screwed in the deals it made because it made fundamentally bad assumptions about the people it was negotiating with. Trump is wrong in the details, but not in the broad strokes.

A core driver of my conservativism is morality and the importance of the family to generate well formed, productive, moral citizens. I'm a very strong believer in tradition as a foundation and scaffolding to that. I believe the American legacy is special and distinct in the world. And better.

No. My conservative principles have not changed.

The difference between me and you reactionaries is a couple things. First of all how you win matters. Let me put it this way. It could be argued that on the basis of policy, I'd probably get more under Trump that I wanted than I would under Clinton. So why would I support Clinton. Because morality and character matters, and for all her flaws, there was simply not comparison between the former Secretary of State, and a racist admitted sexual predator. No amount of things I want from the policy perspective is worth compromising myself and my integrity by turning a blind eye to Donald Trump's enormous character, competence and moral failings. The President of the United States is not just the head of government. He's not some Prime Minister. He is a symbol of the country to us and to the world. It should be a person of the highest calibur. We did not have that in 2016. But Hillary was far closer than Trump. Far, far closer.

I wanted things, yet not so badly as to eat shit to get it. You evidently, did not. Says a lot about my character. And yours. I have standards. You do not.

Secondly... let me ask... lets say you get your 8 years of Trump... how does this end for you? 8 years of Trump 2.0? ANd then after that 8 years of Trump 3.0. An eternity of Trump clones? Making America Great Again until the Sun Goes out?

I got a wake up call for you. The Obama True Believers in 2008 thought they too had won a historic victory for all time with their historic achievement. They got 8 years out of Obama. And now we have Trump, who half reason for being is pressing the big red Reset Button on the so-called Obama legacy.

So what's to stop the next liberal President, and there will be one to be clear, from pressing the Big Red Reset Button of their own? Is that how it's gonna be in America now? Every time the Presidency changes hands, the goon in charge resets every policy they can? 8 years of climate change mitigation on, 8 years of climate change denial on, so on and so forth?

If you want to waste your time and your life so fruitlessly, I wish you will. I on the other hand, do like to actually get things done. So here's the things with liberals that you need a rapid education on my little friend. You will never get rid of them and you will never permanently beat them. They are a permanent fixture of American politics, and there are a lot of them, just like conservative and just like moderates. We share this country together. We made it what it is, together. They check us and we check them. Man, the flawed creature that it is, has failed to create the comprehensive political and economic system that yields the optimal outcome in every circumstance. We are partners. We are competitors. We are brothers and sisters. America is what it is because while the politics in most other countries remains highly factionalized and dysfunctional, until recently, liberal and conservatives (and moderates) cooperated in good faith. They accepted half a loaf because when you represent 1/4th the population, which is at most all conservatives and all liberals are each, that's more than fair.

Compromise is what separates advanced democracies like America from the tribal politics of much of the rest of the world. Get with the program. Your anti-compromise position is pre-modern, and I mean that in the sense of pre-Enlightenment. Our very system of government is a monument to compromise, or did they skip that lesson in High School?

I respect liberals. I don't agree with them. But I respect them and I respect their right to press for the policies they want. They are well within the yellow line. You extremist right wing reactionaries? The fact that you exist so far out of the yellow lines is actually entirely the problem, and why real conservatives like myself have found common cause with liberals, against you. Because while I disagree with them, their American values cred utterly wards the cheap sloganeering of you right wing fanatics.

[Vyuvarax]

Yeah I would love to have Democrats that let us have our way wholesale too, whoops I meant compromise.

The current right wing's version of 'goals' is a bunch of Christian oriented policies, i.e. a bunch of violations of the constitution. No wonder everything must feel like a loss when your objective is undermining rights.

[Paranoid Android]

@Skroe.

So is your party even conservative these days? I mean Pence no matter what was a super conservative and part of GOP long before Trump. Now your party is at the whims of Trump.

I HATE our two party system and this is another reason where an unstable person can hijack the party and it seems that they fall in line. Sadly with two party system there will be little consequences. Could they lose the House and maybe swept in all 3 by 2020. Possible. They will rebound. Now for the order of democracy, yes its best GOP to bounce back.

[TZucchini]

Thanks for wasting millions of tax-payer dollars, Pence. Fiscal responsibility at its finest.

[Vyuvarax]

Thanks for wasting millions of tax-payer dollars, Pence. Fiscal responsibility at its finest.

I can't think of the last time the Republican Party did something fiscally responsible...