Blizzard Diversity and Inclusion hiring initiative

[Rennadrel]

You don't seem to be addressing me or the OP, which is about the inclusion of quotas targeting American minorities. The effects of the quotas will be felt regardless of whether there is a glut or shortage of American workers in any given field. I don't disagree with what you have to say about the problem with STEM education in the U.S. in general, though.

I work for a company that will only higher female high school graduates for their electrician apprenticeship programs. Why? Because the CEO, who inherited the company from her father, mandated that it be so. I'd love to know how being gender biased is acceptable policy? It's trying to fill a quota yet ironically, now they can't hire any of them, they aren't filling any positions because people are realizing it's a shit company to work for and that no sexist or racist policy is going to get potential apprentices in the door or skilled and qualified trades people. So now they keep trying to hire TFWs and the government tells them no. They don't want to change and improve their rate of pay for their trades people, so no diversity quota policy is going to work when you can't hire local trades people, and the government tells you to do exactly that.

[Deleted]

Folks, when you base your argument on the idea that women and ethnic minorities are automatically worse than white dudes at the jobs in question, you are the reason diversity programs exist. To offset that blatant prejudice.

Facepalm.

No one said minorities are automatically underqualified, but as they will have to fill certain quotas and there are less people to pick from when it comes to certain groups, that means they will have to lower their bar, which will lead to hiring less qualified people.

Example

10 people apply for a position.

7 men and 3 women.

On a scale of 1 to 10, this is how qualified the people applying are.

Man1: 10
Man2: 3
Man3: 6
Man4: 9
Man5: 7
Man6: 2
Man7: 5

Woman1: 10
Woman2: 2
Woman3: 6


Now you have very qualified and less qualified people among the men and the women. You have 3 positions to fill. Now normally the logical picks would be Man1, Man4 and Woman1. But you need women because you need to fill a certain quota. If you pick those 3, you end up with 2 men and only 1 woman. If you pick 2 men for every woman you pick, you're never gonna get to even a 50/50 distribution. So what would you probably pick? Right, all 3 women. But even if Woman2 was too bad for the job, you might go with Man1, Woman1 and Woman3, because at least you'd be hiring more women than men. Woman3 isn't too bad, but there would've been 2 male applicants better suited for the job and 1 equally as much, but he didn't get the job because he was born with the wrong set of genitals.

Now, this doesn't mean women can't be as good as men, it just means there are less women to pick from cause women care less about developing videogames than men do.

[Draco-Onis]

Facepalm.

No one said minorities are automatically underqualified, but as they will have to fill certain quotas and there are less people to pick from when it comes to certain groups, that means they will have to lower their bar, which will lead to hiring less qualified people.

Example

10 people apply for a position.

7 men and 3 women.

On a scale of 1 to 10, this is how qualified the people applying are.

Man1: 10
Man2: 3
Man3: 6
Man4: 9
Man5: 7
Man6: 2
Man7: 5

Woman1: 10
Woman2: 2
Woman3: 6


Now you have very qualified and less qualified people among the men and the women. You have 3 positions to fill. Now normally the logical picks would be Man1, Man4 and Woman1. But you need women because you need to fill a certain quota. If you pick those 3, you end up with 2 men and only 1 woman. If you pick 2 men for every woman you pick, you're never gonna get to even a 50/50 distribution. So what would you probably pick? Right, all 3 women. But even if Woman2 was too bad for the job, you might go with Man1, Woman1 and Woman3, because at least you'd be hiring more women than men. Woman3 isn't too bad, but there would've been 2 male applicants better suited for the job and 1 equally as much, but he didn't get the job because he was born with the wrong set of genitals.

Now, this doesn't mean women can't be as good as men, it just means there are less women to pick from cause women care less about developing videogames than men do.

I hate to point out the obvious flaw but your logic rest on the fact that you think all 2 women are automatically less qualified than the men and that they would pick resumes for interviews of people that have lower qualifications. Unless you know the inner workings of this policy you are basically talking out of your ass.

[Deleted]

I hate to point out the obvious flaw but your logic rest on the fact that you think all 2 women are automatically less qualified than the men

You apparently didn't read my post. Look at the numbers again.

[Draco-Onis]

You apparently didn't read my post. Look at the numbers again.

No you are delusional when a company like Blizzard hires they get thousands of applicants a lot of which have jobs and or are overqualified. You are telling me that among these thousands they would be unable to find women or minorities that are qualified enough for the job? are you really that oblivious? or is your stance that only whites have what it takes?

[Deleted]

No you are delusional when a company like Blizzard hires they get thousands of applicants a lot of which have jobs and or are overqualified. You are telling me that among these thousands they would be unable to find women or minorities that are qualified enough for the job? are you really that oblivious? or is your stance that only whites have what it takes?

Then how do you explain the fact that there are so many more men working at Blizzard than there are women? Has Blizzard been sexist up until now? Get out of here with your SJW shit. Blizzard has been trying to hire more women for years, they've always made it clear that they are just not getting the applications.

[Sky High]

I don't see the issue. all you have to complain about is hypotheticals, and those aren't convincing to me, at all.

[Draco-Onis]

Then how do you explain the fact that there are so many more men working at Blizzard than there are women? Has Blizzard been sexist up until now? Get out of here with your SJW shit. Blizzard has been trying to hire more women for years, they've always made it clear that they are just not getting the applications.

Oh my, did I hit a nerve? you're the one triggered by the very thought of women and minorities getting a shot. Do you need a safe space? did my words bother your snowflake constitution?

[Deleted]

Oh my, did I hit a nerve? you're the one triggered by the very thought of women and minorities getting a shot.

They have a shot...

This is not about them getting a shot, this is about them being preferred.

[DSRilk]

You want to make a stink about diversity hiring? You should make a stink about American production of qualified software engineers. It's a joke. It truly is. So much of the company I work at is foreign. Undergrad and grad school was foreign. My company today cannot hire enough qualified people to fill the team openings we have.

This has not been my experience at all. I've worked at both small and large companies, and when it comes to the large companies especially, I see totally qualified American devs dropped for far lower quality outsourced devs.

More OT... in video games, perhaps more than many other fields, I think there's a great benefit to having more women in the dev roles. Not because I think women are more qualified, or that there needs to be some artificial parity, but because I can frequently see a great difference (especially in dialog and storyline) between games written solely by (especially young) guys and those written by teams where there was gender diversity. I prefer the latter. Obviously this is not the case in every situation, but the odds of producing a game that feels more real and appeals to a broader audience is greater with both genders involved in development. I've been in dev for the last 22 years, 5 of which were in the crpg/mmo game industry - for what that's worth.

[Draco-Onis]

Well considering Asians dominate the tech field but aren't considered minorities because the buzzword is now 'underrepresented minorities' I'd say the tech feel is plenty 'diverse' when it comes to race, which is the most worthless metric to go by, preceded by gender, then sexual orientation. None of these things are merits. Everyone who wants to be there and has the capabilities of being there is there. All these diversity quota initiatives end up with either a failure to meet the quota when standards are maintained, which ends up in closing things down like chemistry departments in certain British universities, OR the standards are lowered and quality suffers, which means a customer ends up paying more money for less quality in a business like Blizzard. If you want a diversity initiative, go get more Asians interested in the NFL, there is a distinct lack of Asian players there.

A simple google search would tell you that you are wrong and feel free to start an initiative for the NFL.

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Im assuming you are a white male. Shut your mouth and stop speaking on behalf of me. I didn't elect you, and I despise you. Sincerely, an Asian Woman with a STEM degree.

You know what they say about making assumptions right? I honestly do not care what color or sex you are. Yes in a perfect world everyone would get jobs based on merit but that is not how the real world works.

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They have a shot...

This is not about them getting a shot, this is about them being preferred.

So you think in the real world people get jobs based on qualifications? let me know when you grow up.

[Deleted]

So you think in the real world people get jobs based on qualifications? let me know when you grow up.

No, companies prefer white people without qualifications. You have opened my eyes.

[Draco-Onis]

in a perfect world you will have perfect racial and gender representation without lowering any standards in every single field. In the REAL world, the best qualified candidate should get the job and their demographics are bloody irrelevant. And that is how it was until 'diversity quotas' showed up.

So what's your point? pretend this is nepotism you know the thing that happens everyday in corporate america that you have accepted since there is nothing you can do about it.

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No, companies prefer white people without qualifications. You have opened my eyes.

Of course only white males are qualified to be fortune 500 CEOs and board members which is why they overwhelmingly dominate it

Again come back to me when you grow up or get out of your sheltered life.

[Mehrunes]

it's always the dudes who've never been involved in hiring who're super eager to explain the reasoning behind these programs

like, it's not about wanting to give a person of color some advantage just because the management have decided they hate white people or something. It's because the hiring process in lots of industries (and software dev is one of these) tends to attract and favor white men, not the least because most of the people doing the work and the hiring are white men. Managers tend to prefer to hire people who look and sound like them, and who have similar backgrounds.

This is bad for the company though, because it leads to a tendency to overlook people who would be good fits or who'd bring different skills to the table. So you attempt to correct it via policy, by (for example) interviewing more women or people of color.

And you're applying general industry trends onto one company that's already progressive and dedicated to diversity, because?

there's also the fallacy that 'most qualified' even necessarily matters; in a creative field does it matter if someone has five years' or seven years' experience? Not particularly; you hire the person who fits philosophically, socially, etc.

Yeah, because simply programming jobs, which most of game development is, is totes legit a creative field.

And then you wake up one morning and you're reviewing some data and realize that your workforce is about 2/3 white dudes (as is the case with blizzard per publicly released data.) How to interpret the fact that though they are a small minority of the hiring pool, white men are such a large presence in your company? It's pretty unlikely just based on population distribution that you've actually hired the best possible people; instead, your hiring process seems likely to have a substantial preference for white men, regardless of applicants' qualifications.

So there's a possibly large inefficiency in your hiring process; it's likely you're passing over non-white, non-male candidates who could help your company (and whom you could perhaps be paying less money.) How do you correct that inefficiency? Institute a policy that encourages your hiring managers to seek out (and then interview) applicants who aren't white men, and provide some resources to that effect (translators, compliance staff, etc)

Top notch application of population distribution right there given how white people make for the majority of the country AND how tech related studies are dominated by men.

[Deleted]

Of course only white males are qualified to be fortune 500 CEOs and board members which is why they overwhelmingly dominate it

Again come back to me when you grow up or get out of your sheltered life.

You don't even seem to understand what your own argument is. You said people aren't hired based on their qualifications. Yeah there are non-white non-males who are qualified enough, that's why some of them are in those positions. Jesus FUCK.

[Strangewayes]

No you are delusional when a company like Blizzard hires they get thousands of applicants a lot of which have jobs and or are overqualified. You are telling me that among these thousands they would be unable to find women or minorities that are qualified enough for the job? are you really that oblivious? or is your stance that only whites have what it takes?

[Adam Jensen]

It led to the fall of Bioware for sure.

Yeah, throwing a temper tantrum about two transgender characters who had minor roles totally brought down the company.

It wasn't the mishandling of the Mass Effect franchise. Nope. It wasn't the sloppy development, the lack of response to players, the sudden cancellation of much wanted DLC, it wasn't a disappointing end to one of the greatest video game series of all time just so they could push out Anthem . . .

No . . . it was diversity

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, it's not the same thing. Blizzard wants to hire more females and minorities. They are not changing longstanding characters to women, like Marvel did. They are changing things on the back end, Marvel pushed their agenda in the product itself. Now, when they decide to turn Thrall into a woman, then they will be doing the same thing.

If you want to be pissed about Blizzard pushing a "girly" product, you are 13 years to late. That started with the release of WoW.

marvel didn't change any longstanding characters to woman.

[Draco-Onis]

You don't even seem to understand what your own argument is. You said people aren't hired based on their qualifications. Yeah there are non-white non-males who are qualified enough, that's why some of them are in those positions. Jesus FUCK.

I will simplify it for you, in a perfect world everyone would get in through qualifications but that is obviously not the case. Do i think diversity initiatives are wrong? yes absolutely but the world is obviously not fair since the numbers show qualified people of certain races and sex get screwed on a regular basis. In the absence of perfection I am fine with whatever evens the odds fight fire with fire.

[Deleted]

I will simplify it for you, in a perfect world everyone would get in through qualifications but that is obviously not the case.

Obviously not the case? Aside from some women getting a promotion cause they've blown the boss, how aren't qualifications the deciding factor here? Where are these hordes of qualified people that can't get a job? What mythical world do you live in?

Do i think diversity initiatives are wrong? yes absolutely

Then what are we fucking discussing here?

but the world is obviously not fair since the numbers show non qualified people of certain races and sex get screwed on a regular basis.

What do you mean non-qualified people get screwed? If they aren't qualified, they shouldn't get the job.