Active shooter on Las Vegas strip.

[Mormolyce]

And in an interesting twist:


So not only did the staff at the Hotel know that there was an active shooter in the building BEFORE he opened fire on the crowd, but it makes you wonder why it took the cops so long to track the guy down to his hotel room when they should have already had an active shooting incident relayed to dispatch while this stuff was going down pretty much pinpointing his location before he even started shooting.

I honestly don't know what to make of this, surely it's been long enough for the "early reports" factor to wear off.

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There's been a lot of dialogue in gun control as to 'what needs controlling'. The general consensus by people who don't matter is that 'scary guns' are the problem. They're the things that come to mind first for much of the population. It's the reason that anything that isn't a pistol or shotgun is an "AR-15" or "AR-15 Style".

Basically anything that isn't holstered. If it's all black and has lots of stuff on it, it has a menacing look, and apparently that's a bigger problem than things like large magazines, or giving guns to the wrong people.

I think you should focus your efforts on the kind of gun that shoots projectiles.

[Strangewayes]

So have they figured out the motive yet? How do we stop these attacks in the future?

Eliminate crime and criminals forever. That will stop shootings. I find it funny people say that you should make gun laws when shooters usually have illegal guns in the first place. Like a criminal will go "Oh no that gun is illegal I can't shoot up the place with that"

Some people I swear...

[chazus]

I think you should focus your efforts on the kind of gun that shoots projectiles.

While cute, that's the kind of statement that is exactly what gets us nowhere.

The problem is people are trying to ban the weapons that account for a very small number of deaths, relatively speaking (That being 'scary guns', rifles, etc)

[Surfd]

Eliminate crime and criminals forever. That will stop shootings. I find it funny people say that you should make gun laws when shooters usually have illegal guns in the first place. Like a criminal will go "Oh no that gun is illegal I can't shoot up the place with that"

Some people I swear...

You are totally right. If it was really hard to get guns, that man would have killed 58 people from 1200 yards away with a steak knife. So obviously guns are not the problem.

Some people indeed.

Nope, America totally doesn't have a gun problem. Totally not.

At least 809 people have been shot in the seven days since the massacre on the Las Vegas Strip, 247 of them fatally, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive. They were struck by bullets fired during domestic incidents, drive-by shootings, and accidental shootings.

The Las Vegas massacre wasn’t the nation’s only mass shooting last week: Between October 2 and October 9, at least 22 people were wounded or killed in multiple-casualty incidents, defined by the Archive as shootings with four or more victims. In one incident, four people were wounded at a vigil for a shooting victim in Miami. In another, five people were wounded in a drive-by shooting outside a club in Houston.

[MAGAmobile]

While cute, that's the kind of statement that is exactly what gets us nowhere.

The problem is people are trying to ban the weapons that account for a very small number of deaths, relatively speaking (That being 'scary guns', rifles, etc)

Instead of focusing on just guns themselves, maybe ammo should be harder to obtain or limiting magazine size.

[Surfd]

Instead of focusing on just guns themselves, maybe ammo should be harder to obtain or limiting magazine size.

magazine size is irrelivent when A: it only takes one bullet to kill someone and B: anyone with even a moderate amount of experience with a weapon can swap magazines quite quickly.

[Strangewayes]

You are totally right. If it was really hard to get guns, that man would have killed 58 people from 1200 yards away with a steak knife. So obviously guns are not the problem.

Some people indeed.

Nope, America totally doesn't have a gun problem. Totally not.

lol you try and make every American give up their guns. Good luck with that, since there are more guns than people in the country, and who knows how many unregistered firearms. Even if you tried a buy back system, there would still be millions of easily accessible guns available for criminals or anyone with enough money to buy them on the black market, as the Las Vegas shooter had.

And you think that people, hunters, security guards, criminals, will just hand them over, because a nutter somewhere shot 50 people? What optimism you have. This isn't some thing where the kid just says "everyone should just give up guns" and it happens, and poof guns magically disappear because everyone including the drug cartels and gangs are sad people died that one time. Jesus.

[Surfd]

lol you try and make every American give up their guns. Good luck with that, since there are more guns than people in the country, and who knows how many unregistered firearms. Even if you tried a buy back system, there would still be millions of easily accessible guns available for criminals.

And you think that people, hunters, security guards, criminals, will just hand them over, because a nutter somewhere shot 50 people? What optimism you have. This isn't some thing where the kid just says "everyone should just give up guns" and it happens. Jesus.

Why is it that every time someone mentions gun restrictions, one of the first things the gun nuts spout off about is cops and security guards giving up their guns...... The gun is part of their job. Nobody is going to try to take guns away from cops or security guards. And pretty much nobody in any other country with proper gun regulations takes guns from hunters. Because hunters get properly licenced and trained to use them. And because hunters dont need AR-15s to hunt. Nobody on the anti gun side has ever, EVER suggested some stupid magical fantasy land where there are no guns at all.

[Saucexorzski]

Anyone else enjoying the irony of the folks who think the current government of the US is run by Nazis wanting that current government to enact gun confiscation?

[Strangewayes]

Anyone else enjoying the irony of the folks who think the current government of the US is run by Nazis wanting that current government to enact gun confiscation?

Well if they give up automatic weapons it makes it easier for Hitler Trump to enact the Gassing Chambers for Gays, Immigrants and Blacks I often heard people speak about after he was first elected. I'm still waiting for them. :P

Why is it that every time someone mentions gun restrictions, one of the first things the gun nuts spout off about is cops and security guards giving up their guns...... The gun is part of their job. Nobody is going to try to take guns away from cops or security guards. And pretty much nobody in any other country with proper gun regulations takes guns from hunters. Because hunters get properly licenced and trained to use them. And because hunters dont need AR-15s to hunt. Nobody on the anti gun side has ever, EVER suggested some stupid magical fantasy land where there are no guns at all.

You are right, if they made certain automatic firearms illegal, surely no one with the criminal connections or money would be able to obtain them on the black market. I mean that would just be criminal wouldn't it? You'd think a spree shooter would at least have some sense of moral decency not to go and break the law like that.

[chazus]

magazine size is irrelivent when A: it only takes one bullet to kill someone and B: anyone with even a moderate amount of experience with a weapon can swap magazines quite quickly.

It... is and it isn't.

I assure you, with a 100 round magazine on mine, I could go through ammo 3-4 times faster. Based off your "A", that's 3-4 times more people.

Right now, we're looking at doing this:

That's right, nothing.

Lets start small. Start reducing magazines and automatic modifications. Start increasing security aspects (Like needing a commercial license to buy more than 2 guns a year or something). If someone hits the 20 guns mark, it triggers an audit where you have to account for all your weapons. In 5-10 years, lets look at something else that doesn't remove guns entirely, because that won't happen. But if we can cut these numbers in half... That's better than nothing.

Start small, because one of the reasons America has so many guns, is not because of culture, but a culture has formed around the availability.

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Nobody on the anti gun side has ever, EVER suggested some stupid magical fantasy land where there are no guns at all.

Actually, that's a very common rhetoric.

[Deleted]

On an individual level, as a force multiplier, yes. Though nowhere near as much as you are stating. Statistically, no. Which is what I am saying. You keep positioning the idea that getting rid of the scary guns will somehow reduce death, when that just isn't the case. It is dishonest.

Statistically, yes, and i have proven this to you on all these occasions, those guns aren't scary, you people that want to use them are what is scary here. And yes, getting rid of those guns will reduce deaths, any claim but this is dishonest.

That wasn't the goalpost you set. Try again, this time with your actual argument.

That was exactly the question, you just do not want to answer because then your precious guns might be in a very bad light, you know, the light where they belong.

[Surfd]

You are right, if they made certain automatic firearms illegal, surely no one with the criminal connections or money would be able to obtain them on the black market. I mean that would just be criminal wouldn't it? You'd think a spree shooter would at least have some sense of moral decency not to go and break the law like that.

I don't think you have any idea how the black market works. Do you know why it is easy to get guns on the black market in the USA? Because it is easy to get guns EVERYWHERE in the USA. Fuck, it's not like you even NEED a criminal black market with the way your gun regulations currently work. Obviously it's not going to be difficult for your average criminal got get their hands on a weapon when those weapons are so widely available. But what happens when that shit becomes rare. Not like your average street thug is going to be able to get a gun on the black market when the price spikes by a factor of 10 or 20.

[chazus]

That was exactly the question, you just do not want to answer because then your precious guns might be in a very bad light, you know, the light where they belong.

I mean, getting rid of -any- gun reduces the number of guns, and may reduce deaths.

But yeah, rifles and 'scary guns' are not the biggest problem at hand, by far.

[Surfd]

Start small, because one of the reasons America has so many guns, is not because of culture, but a culture has formed around the availability.

No, the culture definitely did not form around the availability. The availability is a direct result of the culture. Your society on a general level is just unnaturally obsessed with guns. When there are almost more guns in public hands there are people in your country, you know there is definitely something more than just "well, they are available" going on.

Hell, I guarantee you, it would probably take a lot less than 6 degrees of separation to ask any random person in the USA if they know someone who has, or will in the future, inherit one or several guns.

And therein likes the manufacturer's dilemma. How to sell you a new gun, when you already inherited several for free.

The shrinking number of households without guns, coupled with the longevity of a properly maintained gun (and the ease of repair -- in the end, they're very simple mechanically), means that any given owner is likely to simple inherit more guns than they buy, and that the secondary market is nicely full.

There's no obsolescence, the primary market is shrinking, and they have plenty of cheaper, secondhand alternatives with no real downside. So how do you sell them brand new guns?

Scaring the fuck out of them is what they went with. It's a good fucking scam, and one you guys are paying for in blood. Because the people arming up are being fed a diet of paranoia and fear, and told the guns they just bought will make the fear go away.

[chazus]

No, the culture definitely did not form around the availability. The availability is a direct result of the culture.

Scaring the fuck out of them is what they went with. It's a good fucking scam, and one you guys are paying for in blood. Because the people arming up are being fed a diet of paranoia and fear, and told the guns they just bought will make the fear go away.

I'm not saying you are, but you sound like someone who neither is american (or at least not familiar with american history) nor a gun owner.

[Deleted]

I mean, getting rid of -any- gun reduces the number of guns, and may reduce deaths.

But yeah, rifles and 'scary guns' are not the biggest problem at hand, by far.

Gun control has never been about getting rid of all guns, this has been pointed out to you not a few post ago. And no, that isn't something that common rhetoric, its something that gun nuts often like spout, not people that are on about gun control.

The poster i was quoting was suggesting that knifes are equally lethal as guns are, and that is just a bullshit claim.

This guy just killed about 60 people, and still people are saying that the guns aren't a problem, they might not be the only problem, but they are one of the biggest problems you people have. Every "responsible" gun owner is responsible until they are not, the more people that need to be responsible (the more gun owners you have) the more people that will fail this responsibility. Now when failing these responsibilities might end in 560 casualties, like it did here, then you might want to ask your self if having the ability to own guns is worth all these casualties.

You might feel inclined to point out that if everyone had a good mental health that the gun problem would be close to none existent. There might be some truth in that, but in the end it is much much harder to fix mental problems across the country then it is to ban guns across the country.

[chazus]

Gun control has never been about getting rid of all guns, this has been pointed out to you not a few post ago. And no, that isn't something that common rhetoric, its something that gun nuts often like spout, not people that are on about gun control.

Tell half my facebook feed that after Vegas. It's pretty common for people to do the whole "Australia banned guns" thing. It's not any part of any -real- debate or ideas, but it's something a lot of people spout on both sides, so it gets into media, and into peoples heads.

You might feel inclined to point out that if everyone had a good mental health that the gun problem would be close to none existent. There might be some truth in that, but in the end it is much much harder to fix mental problems across the country then it is to ban guns across the country.

I think a better mental health system is part of a multi-faceted project to fix the problem. But it certainly isn't 'the' thing. Nothing alone is 'the' thing. We just seem to struggle picking one thing, anything, to start with.

[Strangewayes]

Tell half my facebook feed that after Vegas. It's pretty common for people to do the whole "Australia banned guns" thing. It's not any part of any -real- debate or ideas, but it's something a lot of people spout on both sides, so it gets into media, and into peoples heads.


I think a better mental health system is part of a multi-faceted project to fix the problem. But it certainly isn't 'the' thing. Nothing alone is 'the' thing. We just seem to struggle picking one thing, anything, to start with.

They'll never talk about improving mental health or healthcare in America, in America you are expected to pay your own way for any healthcare. Mental Health plans will be either killed off or quietly shot in the head out the back.

The whole idea is about hitting back at the NRA, and the Guns industry. The more deregulated the market is, the more guns that can be sold. It's just about money for the companies, and peace of mind for the gun owners.

The only reason banning automatic firearms in Australia worked, is because gun ownership already wasn't crazy, and automatic gun ownership wasn't widespread.

Funnily enough almost everyone in Sweden has guns, but no ammunition for them. So when killing sprees happen its usually stabbings, bombs and trucks through crowds instead. As long as someone has the will to kill, they'll find a way. Remember 9/11? Boxcutters and planes. Where's the guns there?

[Surfd]

I'm not saying you are, but you sound like someone who neither is american (or at least not familiar with american history) nor a gun owner.

Canadian. Not currently a gun owner. My father, however, owns a couple of rifles, which either myself, my brother, or my sister will inherit, provided we complete the proper paperwork when the time comes.

I would like to know how you would justify the assertion that American gun culture is a result of availability, when "legal" guns are just as available in Canada, should we chose to acquire them, yet nowhere near the same percentage of people in canada seem to vehemently espouse the need, or more importantly, the RIGHT to own one.

Gun availability in the states (mostly due to the utter shitshow that is what you call "regulation") is a direct result of the culture, which can track it's roots back pretty much directly to your holy writ, The Second Amendment, which has turned the right to bear arms into a nearly religious dogma that organizations like the NRA like to trot out every time anybody so much as hints at anything even remotely approaching something that could infringe on that right. Can't screen crazy people, that would be an infringement on their right to have a gun. Can't preform a proper background check, because that would be an invasion of their privacy, and might infringe on their right to have a gun. And the list goes on and on.