[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Deleted]

the shill brigade being out in force should tell you exactly what 3.0 state is

an asset mess released to preview the yearly november money grab, because without something "3.0" launched probably backers would have give 0 new $ to CIG

unfortunately i think they prematurely ejected this "3.0"\

by the time the yearly money grab starts citizens would be well informed about the status of this "3.0"

[Majestic12]

Again, I reiterate, You're full of shit. Lying and deceit it's all you got. You can't be an Evocati because You can't handle playing buggy alphas remember much less report them in a constructive way.

You are just another hater having a smeltdown because a patch that "would never release" has indeed been released. Star Marine all over again.
Shameful behaviour but it's to be expected, from the same folks that fake refunds and harass CIG dev's.

Hope your refund goes through.



A 20 year old engine? Poor choice? Oh god.... could you be more clueless? Really?

Answer me this then, Why did a company likeAmazon (a top 5 company in the world along brand giants like Google, Microsoft, Facebook and Apple) choose CryEngine as their Engine to step into the game development world instead of building their own proprietary engine? Why?

God knows they don't lack funding to pay the best wages or have problem luring the best in the world into their company.

So why did they did exactly what Chris Roberts did but 4 years later and with an even bigger compromise and investment?

Clearly they saw something in that "poor old technology", those Amazon guys sure are dumb and obtuse to the point of going with a "20 year old engine"... Clearly the move of someone who doesn't know how to run a business...

Isin't it?

Now I'm just thinking you for a troll. Let's see:

1. A new account that was made specifically for shilling/flaming in this thread. (Your post history)
2. Saying that the patch is "released" when it's on Evocati.
3. You clearly do not know game development. Reporting bugs and testing a game isn't the same as handling a "buggy alpha". My problem lies with Chris which I've said over and over.

So for these points, I think you're a failtroll. Why don't you sign in to your real account?

[Wilian]

This is true, but repeated "milestone" misses (since these are functionally the same as internal milestones), especially when they're missing major milestones by upwards of a year, are kinda big. That isn't normal in the slightest, the only places something like that can happen are studios like Blizzard where they can afford to dump ludicrous amounts of money into games (like what happened with Titan becoming Overwatch).

This kind of thing would have their publisher/investors breathing down their necks so hard that they'd likely be getting air in their small intestines. No publisher or investors would tolerate these kinds of delays.

Let's not try to pretend like this is all normal development.

Or that this is new. The only reason Freelancer ever came out was because the publisher after years and years of delay finally pulled the brakes and 'graciously' replaced him to an advisory role rather than in rule of the project.

That man is notoriously bad at management, has never had an ounce of self-control and Star Citizen has become his magnus opus on the matter. Fuck, at this point I'm willing to believe that his early games became as good as they were was due to lack of funding, his head not yet so bloated so other people could challenge his overblown visions and thus had to condense the scope to something manageable.

[KyrtF]

Again this conversation is pointless because you fail to grasp the big picture. Some points though:

- Back in 2011/12 there was no other option.

Of course there was. CIG could have written his own engine. Hello Games did. FD did.

That Chris Roberts chose not to is a wonderful testament to his incompetence. He knew the engine required massive changes but he still went with it.

Why? Three reasons seem likely

1....CE was pretty
2...CE had name recognition
3...CR either didn't consider a custom engine at the time or didn't think he could make one.

CIG had to keep showing stuff while developing the game, that's part of their development and funding campaign.

No. I realise that is part of the delay. They have to create assets normally created in the Beta phase and create them in the pre-Alpha phase, risking incompatibility when the engine changes, so they can sell those assets to raise funds for further development.

It's been so successful, Chris Roberts has stated the game was fully funded at about the $65 million mark....and about the $100 million mark as well. He has even stated that he has enough money that he doesn't require outside investors and that he can finish the game even if this income stopped now.

And yet....he is still raising money. Still driving the hype train. Still making decisions based not on what is good for the game but what will separate people from their money.

I can understand that. Despite what he said....I don't believe he has the money he needs. With the way CIG is spending money, I could believe it will eventually spend $2-$300 million on developing S42 and SC.

I don't believe it needs to....I don't even believe it will get the chance...but Chris Roberts and CIG are continuing to raise money they apparently do not need, and are slowing down development to do so. An act which increases their costs.

Making a engine from scratch takes more time than using an already available and known one.

Only if you use the engine as is, or at best engage in minor tweaks. Its not unknown for companies to makes changes to engines they license..
thats why the option exists. So the engine could be customised to the game.

But there comes a point when modifying an engine would be too time consuming and expensive to be worth it, when creating your own custom engine that can do the job you want the way you want it is the better choice.

CryTek developed CE in less than three years.
Hello Games developed their engine in less than three years.
Unity was written in less than three years.

In all these cases, the teams were much smaller than CIGs development team now, with much less money....Unity started with a team of three students, HG a team of 4...and they somehow also found the time to develop and release a game at the same time.

CIG is now approaching year 7 of SCs development. Even if you want to just start the clock with F42, that's still three years with a massive development team. Three years is enough time for smaller devs to write an engine from scratch and use it to create and publish a game.

Crytek managed it.
OTEE managed it.
HG managed it.

CIG did not. CIG are still working on it. CIG still plan to make massive changes, still need to add netcode, still need an improved flight model.

Modifying CE required so much work that any advantage gained by buying off the shelf vanished years ago. And CR knew the engines required massive changes.

He still chose to go down that route.

Now, you can argue that for the game he was developing at the time, that CE was a viable choice. One far from ideal but one that could possibly have been modified at less cost. That's a possibility...but once CR switched the design into the current focus he should have dropped CE immediately, sat his team down and had them do nothing but work on the engine. Preferably a custom engine.

He didn't do that. So here we are...six years in and CIG still don't have a finished engine, still don't know what the final version can do, still don't know what features it will be able to support and it has a boss-slash-project manager who seemingly likes to throw out years of work so he can use the latest new buzzwords.

Making a engine from scratch doesn't solve all of your problems and it creates new ones like making it difficult to find people who are familiar working with it or willing to learn it.

Which is not a problem either HG or FD seemed to have major issues with. It's what we call "a training and induction" phase. You give new employees three or six months to learn.

Amazon did exactly the same as Chris Roberts / CIG despite not needing to present games to backers.

And they had LY ready to go in less than one year. Not 6 going on 7. They followed a normal path...create the engine before using the engine and then refine the engine.

Every game engine is constantly being developed, the thing is that usually it's done behind doors and the public is not aware of it. Tech and features just appear when they are ready and ironed out so gamers think those came out of nothing and took only a couple of days of work when in reality it's years and years of iteration.

Yes. But game companies also do not tend to work on feature A and then see if the game engine can support it.

Take VOIP and FOIP.

They'll be nice to have. CR pushed them at GC. Hes already spending development time integrating them into the game.

What if next month, the people working on the netcode say "Boss, we can give you either FOIP or VOIP or your 1000 player instance, but only one. There isn't enough bandwidth for more"

What will he do? Assuming he doesn't simply alter the minimum specs.

You could say maybe that won't happen but the issue is that CR cannot possibly know what his engine can viably do until it has been created. Netcode and other engine aspects are still be worked on...but CR is making development decisions based on not what the engine can do or support, but what he wants the engine to support, regardless of whether or not it can be done.

Engines get changed and improved. But the games themselves get built on solid foundations. Creating a game engine on the fly at the same time you are creating the games it is intended to support is not normal practise, nor is it good practise. Engines were created in part to do away with the problems such practise brings but it requires that the engine exists and supports the game before the game is created.

None of this means CIG can't develop the game.

What it does mean is that development with take a lot longer than it should...cost more than it otherwise would...and be less efficient than it otherwise would be.

[masterhorus8]

-clip-

You're jumping to so many conclusions that you might as well be doing hurdles at the Olympics.

1) You're assuming that all their money is going to reworking the engine. Similar to a major assumption that I see frequently that all their money is being spent on the game as it's being earned. Which is stupid.

2) You're assuming that more money = faster development. In general, that's true, but there's a point that you hit where it slows things down, as you mentioned about training and a few other things. Ever heard of the saying "too many cooks in the kitchen"?

2.5) You're assuming that the team size for CIG working on the engine is any bigger other groups. Are you really pulling the same bullshit that everyone else on MMOC does of thinking that everyone on the entire company is working on the same stuff at the same time?

2) You're assuming the other companies weren't/aren't working on their engines more after their initial release. Which is patently false.

3) You're equating the engines to each other. Which, again, is patently false.

4) You're assuming that CIG has been doing the exact same amount of work on their engine the entire time. Which is very VERY unlikely.

5) You're assuming that Amazon was only working on CryEngine after they purchased the licensing deal. Buying out rights to use the engine would have been small and they could easily have been working on stuff for years.

And then you do stupid what-if scenarios. And then you go on about how things are normally done. Congrats, SC is not being made in the normal way. I thought that would have been evident 5 years ago.

BTW, you still have yet to show me a game that has everything that CIG wants to do in SC.

[KyrtF]

1) You're assuming that all their money is going to reworking the engine. Similar to a major assumption that I see frequently that all their money is being spent on the game as it's being earned. Which is stupid.

No, actually. I'm not.

What I am "assuming" is that CIG are still working on the engine. As they admit they are - the netcode is due for release in 3.1 for example - that isn't much of an assumption.

2) You're assuming that more money = faster development. In general, that's true, but there's a point that you hit where it slows things down, as you mentioned about training and a few other things. Ever heard of the saying "too many cooks in the kitchen"?

Again - no I'm not. I'm saying that a custom engine suitable for the game CIG want to create can be written, from scratch, in less than three years for less than $10 million using a team of 12 or so devs. Why am I saying that? Because its been done.

2.5) You're assuming that the team size for CIG working on the engine is any bigger other groups. Are you really pulling the same bullshit that everyone else on MMOC does of thinking that everyone on the entire company is working on the same stuff at the same time?

See above.

2) You're assuming the other companies weren't/aren't working on their engines more after their initial release. Which is patently false.

Nope. I am not assuming. In fact, I know they do. That doesn't change the fact that these game engines were created - from scratch - within 3 years with smaller teams and for less money. We also know, for a fact, that it would have been possible for CIG to create a custom engine for SC because, once again, other teams did it.

If you really want to make the argument that the 400 man strong team at CIG with the three years that F42 have existed and a budget of $160m million and climbing cannot do what the 12 man team at Hello Games did with less than $10 million...please. Make that argument. You'll only prove my point.

3) You're equating the engines to each other. Which, again, is patently false.

I don't have to equate them. I just have to look at the engine for No Mans Skies to show that an engine that could drive Star Citizen can be created, from scratch, in less than three years. I simply point out other game engines to show first, that CIG have spent longer modifying CE than it took to create and second, that game engines can be created in less than three years.

4) You're assuming that CIG has been doing the exact same amount of work on their engine the entire time. Which is very VERY unlikely.

No. I'm assuming nothing of the kind. I'm pointing out that CIGs priority SHOULD be getting the engine, getting the games core foundational systems up and running and stable. And they are not. They are prioritising frippery such as FOIP. Nice as that may be, it's not a core system, nor is it even secondary - it's a cosmetic feature that will require the games engine and netcode to be working. These core systems which will determine if FOIP can even work aren't in the game yet, but CIG are still spending time integrating FOIP. They cannot know if the technology will work until the fundamental aspects of the game engine which support it are in place. And they aren't.

5) You're assuming that Amazon was only working on CryEngine after they purchased the licensing deal. Buying out rights to use the engine would have been small and they could easily have been working on stuff for years.

I certainly hope Amazon weren't working on CryEngine before they licensed it. There are laws against that kind of thing.

And then you do stupid what-if scenarios. And then you go on about how things are normally done. Congrats, SC is not being made in the normal way. I thought that would have been evident 5 years ago.

I know Star Citizen is not being made the normal way. That's the problem

The normal way works. The normal way has evolved over decades of game design to ensure developers avoid the problems that Star Citizen is now experiencing. The normal way would have ensured Star Citizen would likely have been released by now.

BTW, you still have yet to show me a game that has everything that CIG wants to do in SC.

Elite Dangerous.
No Mans Skies.
Even SWTOR.

Massive multiplayer games with space sim and combat aspects either already in game or planned and being developed. SWTOR uses a third person pov, ED needs to add space legs and atmospheric landings while NMS needs stronger multiplayer. Looking at those games, at what they have planned, at what they want to do...their current and future list of planned features is very similar to that of Star Citizen. But each has a different focus, and feel. If Star Citizen is released, and if it manages to add everything it wants, it will have a feature list very similar to these games...but will have its own feel and focus.

Perhaps you should try to come up with something that Star Citizen will have for the player that other games don't have?

[masterhorus8]

-clip-

You're so wrong on this that it's not even funny. I legitimately feel bad for you. I apparently forgot why I stopped talking to you for a while.

[KyrtF]

You're so wrong on this that it's not even funny. I legitimately feel bad for you. I apparently forgot why I stopped talking to you for a while.

So...I'm wrong but you're not going to say why? You're going to keep it a secret?

[Majestic12]

You're so wrong on this that it's not even funny. I legitimately feel bad for you. I apparently forgot why I stopped talking to you for a while.

Care to elaborate? The guy wrote a wall of text and you didn't say what you felt was wrong. Makes it hard to reply with something constructive from anybody's part.

[Nihilan]

Care to elaborate? The guy wrote a wall of text and you didn't say what you felt was wrong. Makes it hard to reply with something constructive from anybody's part.

You cannot argue with the faithful. Faith is by definition belief despite the prevailing evidence. In cases like this some people are so heavily invested on an emotional level that they are literally incapable of conceptualizing its failure.

[masterhorus8]

You cannot argue with the faithful. Faith is by definition belief despite the prevailing evidence. In cases like this some people are so heavily invested on an emotional level that they are literally incapable of conceptualizing its failure.

Ahh, got it. So I can't call out when people are trying to pass off opinions as facts, and instead get labeled as "emotional". I'm sorry that I'm not allowed to argue with people. Him saying that they aren't assumptions doesn't change the fact that they are. And it all boils down to his fundamental misunderstanding that's he's been ignoring the entire that he's been in this thread that he thinks that ED, NMS, SWOTR are the same games as SC/each other.

[KyrtF]

Ahh, got it. So I can't call out when people are trying to pass off opinions as facts, and instead get labeled as "emotional". I'm sorry that I'm not allowed to argue with people. Him saying that they aren't assumptions doesn't change the fact that they are. And it all boils down to his fundamental misunderstanding that's he's been ignoring the entire that he's been in this thread that he thinks that ED, NMS, SWOTR are the same games as SC/each other.

Of course they aren't.
But when comparing thibgs like the features of a game, comparisons can be made.

SWTOR for example. It has space combat...its an MMO...it has stories and crafting and resource gathering, guilds and a trade system, and so on. It doesn't really allow for the FPS style of play but it offers quite a bit of what SC wants to offer.

Don't like SWTOR? I could have used EVE.

Same for NMS...which lacks strong multiplayer capability...or ED...which lacks atmospheric landings and "space legs".

You listed a set of assumptions. Ironically....none of those were assumptions I was making. You appear to jave simply seized on an excuse to avoid confronting reality.

Star Citizen is in trouble and the cause of that trouble is Chris Roberts

Its game engine isn't finished after six years. There is no content. The netcode is non viable. Its one "advantage" over games such as ED and NMS...it graphical detail...was shown to be non-existent at GC17. There are no mechanics in play for trade, mining and so on.

Six years and over $110 million spent.

Thats where the development is now.

That isn't opinion. That is fact.

What else is fact? CIG could have developed a custom engine for Star Citizen within two years. They would have needed less than $10 million dollars and a team of 4.

We know this is a fact because Hello Games did exactly that. They created a game engine that is capable of handling just about everything Star Citizen has planned - flight, FPS, inventorying, base building and more.

CIG have taken 6 years to get where they are now....and where they are now has cost them over $110 million and given them a half finished engine and rancid netcode.

NMS is years ahead of Star Citizen simply by having a viable engine in use.

This isn't opinion. This isn't assumption.
This is fact.

CIG could have developed a custom engine capable of running SC in less than three years. If HG could do it, CIG could. They haven't.

SC is neither groundbreaking, nor unique. Its feature list is not overly impressive, its scale and scope are not unique. SC is doing nothing that has not been achieved by other games.

It is just doing it very very slowly.

Six years of development...almost seven. At least $110 million spent out of $160 million raised. Hundreds of developers and third party development teams involved, dating back even to before Kickstarter.


And the result? Its game engine isn't finished after six years. There is no content. The netcode is non viable. Its one "advantage" over games such as ED and NMS...its graphical detail...was shown to be non-existent at GC17. There are no mechanics in play for trade, mining and so on. Hosting, publication and marketing costs still need to be paid and both funding and interest seem to have peaked.

But its good to know you and people like you think the game is doing fine. A playerbase of ten million some of you are expecting.

I think both you and I know SC is a niche game with niche interest.

[Gaidax]

Kinda curious where is it standing... is there any sort of release in foreseeable future? All I hear is various technical demos spree for years now.

[masterhorus8]

Kinda curious where is it standing... is there any sort of release in foreseeable future? All I hear is various technical demos spree for years now.

It all depends on where you draw the line for what is and isn't a "tech demo". For some people, that was the 2.0 release, for others, it's the new 3.0 that was just recently put into the hands of the NDA "public" test groups (hand picked based on contribution of the previous builds). For others, it's tech demo until release.

If you want to determine it for yourself based on the features, here's what is currently being tested with the NDA group.
https://starcitizen.tools/Star_Citizen_Alpha_3.0.0

[KyrtF]

Kinda curious where is it standing... is there any sort of release in foreseeable future? All I hear is various technical demos spree for years now.

As far as I can tell...

The current game is split into a number of individual modules which demonstrate a number of areas of the game. Star Marine shows off FPS combat...Arena Commander space combat...and you can wander around a couple of areas and fulfil a limited number of missions.

3.0 expands on this with improvements in certain areas and expands the play area to 3 moons and an asteroid.

However...CIG are still working on large sections of the game engine, and the "game" as it stands (even with 3.0) is missing a large number of features, almost all planned content, most of the planned gameplay mechanics and so on.

What it is doing is not so much presenting us with a game as demonstrating the technology and systems CIG hope to use in Star Citizen when and if it is ever released.

Hence, SC is a tech demo. Further, with even 3.0 missing huve chunks of the engine , mechanics etc the game is cuttently in a pre-Alpha state.

Is there a release in the near future?

Based on the roadmap presented last year, CIG should have enough systems added and working for the game to enter Alpha state with 4.0. CIG anticipated a release of 4.0 in Q4 2017. That of course is not going to happen.

Assuming they keep to the same schedule of a minor patch plsnned every three months or so, 4.0 should be out in Q4 2018. Given their speed of progress to date, and assuming no cuts in content, Q4 2019 for 4.0 is more likely.

As for the game itself....a full Gold release has yet to be scheduled. Under the assumption that they will not cut content, I would guess a full release would take place circa 2020-2021.

This would tie in with rumours that CIGs internal schedule lists a target date of 2021

However, Chris Roberts has hinted that he will be cutting planned content and releasing a MVP...Minimum Viable Product...which would mean a release mich earlier, but without a number of features and/or content. CIG for example promised 100 systems on release so it seems plausible that number would be cut....either entirely by not generating the systems, or partially by generating them but refusing to populate them with content.

Either way, the FULL game that people have been promised does not seem likely to drop before 2020 at the absolute earliest.

Of course, if Chris Roberts steps down and they get a competent project leader involved, CIG could probably write the full game from scratch and get it out in 2 or 3 years.

[MrAnderson]

Now I'm just thinking you for a troll. Let's see:

1. A new account that was made specifically for shilling/flaming in this thread. (Your post history)
2. Saying that the patch is "released" when it's on Evocati.
3. You clearly do not know game development. Reporting bugs and testing a game isn't the same as handling a "buggy alpha". My problem lies with Chris which I've said over and over.

So for these points, I think you're a failtroll. Why don't you sign in to your real account?

You're the one trolling here, that typical deceitful behaviour with lies and obfuscation is a common trait. Ex. Saying you're in the Evocati = Bullshit.

You are probably one of those pathetic losers that makes up Star Citizen refunds story's as a hobby and goes to sleep at night thinking the day was great.

I'm a user of this forum for more than a decade, mostly because of wow, but seeing the lies and bullshit constantly written here by haters with the usual lies and fear mongering made it too good to pass on exposing their bullshit.

I quite like the fact that you guys feel triggered by not having access to Evocati and contesting it's "open development" while at the same time pushing for refunds . Talk about hypocrisy.

Of course there was. CIG could have written his own engine. Hello Games did. FD did. (sip....)

No not really. Completely Different and way smaller games. Besides Hello Games was formed in 2009 and Frontier back in 1994. They both worked extensively in their engine before releasing what we see now. They keep working in their engine and games and have yet to provide what Star Citizen already accomplishes in it's current alpha.

Space legs at 100% with FPS inside Ships, Space Stations, EVA flying, walking and boarding other player ships, ship stealing, Ejecting from ships and floating persisting in the game world, not disappearing with a loading screen because the game can't handle it.

The fact that the project is still going so strong , making money and getting new players after a campaign that was launched 5 years ago is a testament of Chris Roberts vision and CIG work.

The fact that Amazon went with Cryengine (from all the engines they could have went with, or even made their own) is a testament of Chris Roberts vision. The fact that giants of the industry like AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Amazon, Time Warner have partnered with Star Citizen is a testament of Chris Roberts vision and pedigree in the industry.

You also forget that CIG has the original developers of Cry-engine working for them, what the game can or can't do depends on them, not Chris Roberts. Everything he decides is based on technical advisement from the people that actually get deep hand's on with the engine.

That's why Star Citizen beat Elite to walking on planets for example, walking on ships, fps, eva etc.

But this is more of the same, A new update is eminent and the trolls and haters get all riled up because the backers get excited.

Like you can't stand that people have fun and get excited about Star Citizen, you always have to push your cynicism and negativism because you can't get your fun from playing ED or NMS for example.

Well you can already do more in 3.0 than in Elite and NMS toguether, no wonder the haters are restless. Well I have bad news guys, you're going to get even more restless in the future because Star Citizen is not changing it's development because some haters like to spread bullshit on the internet, so fasten your seatbelts and prepare for all the egg-yolk.

[Majestic12]

You're the one trolling here, that typical deceitful behaviour with lies and obfuscation is a common trait. Ex. Saying you're in the Evocati = Bullshit.

You are probably one of those pathetic losers that makes up Star Citizen refunds story's as a hobby and goes to sleep at night thinking the day was great.

I'm a user of this forum for more than a decade, mostly because of wow, but seeing the lies and bullshit constantly written here by haters with the usual lies and fear mongering made it too good to pass on exposing their bullshit.

I quite like the fact that you guys feel triggered by not having access to Evocati and contesting it's "open development" while at the same time pushing for refunds . Talk about hypocrisy.

That's interesting because you seem to be the one with sunk cost fallacy, not me. I got over my bias a long time ago because I was forced to realize what Chris had done to the game. You won't until it's too late just like what happened to NMS. "But.. but maybe multiplayer is just disabled!!"

And then you fanboys disappeared into the winds.

Let's have some fun, MrAnderson. Here's what I said immediately with regards to 3.0 and how playable it was.

I am Evocati and tried 3.0 first wave today. It's unplayable for me.

You immediately doubted me simply because I had something negative to say about it. You shill like this in the thread:

You are just another hater having a smeltdown because a patch that "would never release" has indeed been released.

What you don't get is that your entire standpoint is invalid. The patch you call "released" never existed. It's not even on the Evocati now. The original 3.0 that Chris said he'd have in our hands by December was never made.

Here the patch you are praising (and you haven't even tried). I went ahead and found some leaked footage to prove my original and immediate report on Evocati. This was posted yesterday:



Lmao, I bet if you knew who this guy was you'd send him threats. You're probably raging over the fact that he found a way to remove CIG's watermark entirely.

So to summarize:

1. I immediately said the build was unplayable. I've now proven my standpoint is valid with actual footage. I am right.
2. You call it the patch that "would never release" when that patch still isn't anywhere to be seen. You are wrong.
3. Everything you type is based on sunk cost fallacy and wishful thinking. You're still living in the dream still that many of us left 2015.

I've basically owned you in every possible way now and you're going to have nothing to say about it. It's just going to be more subjective crap despite the fact that I've just shoved this into your face.

You can sit down now, MrAnderson.

[Deleted]

any normal human gamer, after seeing how this build (labeled 3.0 but it has 10% from the 1 year ago promised 3.0), would get a refund

i have never saw in my 1992-2017 gaming life a game more trashier than this. and there is no salvation, no amount of fixing and polishing can save this. it needs a complete rewrite, with another lead developer at head (not roberts who is an incompetent snake oil salesman).

p.s. 10fps on 3000$+ rigs with max 6 players. wtf is that hahahaha.

[Katchii]

Yes, it really is normal game development. Whenever you try new mechanics it involves new tech, made from scratch. How long will it take to make something that was never made? After it was made, will it work as intended? Will it be fun along with everything else?

Those questions and many more make it impossible to predict things and delays happen, even with time buffers you can never get it right when you are walking uncharted areas.

The only difference is that the publicly is more aware of what's being done because it was announced so early. That's why it looks it takes more time compared with other titles that we only know late in development.

From what I can tell, @Edge is not talking about the development process behind the scenes it's the project management part. I get what you're saying but missing milestone after milestone, especially published ones is NOT normal and is absolutely terrible project management. If you still have work to do, don't set an unrealistic goal, get the work done and set a date that makes sense.

If something is going to take two years to do, take two years to do it and then announce a release date. If you have no fucking clue how long it's going to take to do something, don't set a 6 month due date with milestones every month and miss every single one of them.

Star Citizen is a huge endeavor and I wish the team the best because what I've seen of the GAME is fantastic, but everything I've seen thus far from the project management side is horrendous.

[masterhorus8]

any normal human gamer, after seeing how this build (labeled 3.0 but it has 10% from the 1 year ago promised 3.0), would get a refund

i have never saw in my 1992-2017 gaming life a game more trashier than this. and there is no salvation, no amount of fixing and polishing can save this. it needs a complete rewrite, with another lead developer at head (not roberts who is an incompetent snake oil salesman).

p.s. 10fps on 3000$+ rigs with max 6 players. wtf is that hahahaha.

Apparently you've never seen Line of Defense.