How will flight be handled the next expac?

[Polybius]

That explanation would have held up except for Blizzard not sticking with the Pathfinder methodology, as Argus has shown us.



Because of Blizzard's continuous mishandling of the subject. That and they can't seem to grasp that players want flight to be part of the game, not something that they have to jump through a bazillion tedious tasks to unlock, only to have it locked again shortly afterwords.

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So..wait. You're telling me that you think Blizzard will create specific, detailed obstacles and navigation for boats that will be interesting enough that they won't want to abandon it, but that they couldn't do the same exact thing for Flying mounts?

This just keeps getting better.

Hard to do something with flying. I mean can you name an obstacle they can add that doesn't have to do with knocking a player out of the air? They stick with what they can. Hence why Timeless Isle's features made it into the core game. WoW isn't GW2, there's barely any veticality they can create without breaking their game.

Not sure why you're arguing flying should be part of the game. It already is. Every expansion had an obstacle to obtain flying, it was never a one time deal. As for Argus, the Pathfinder achievement was pretty clear about what zones were included. Not to mention the fact that Argus is an instanced zone, something their engine has trouble with ever since Cata (Skywall raid was originally mentioned to have flying) and lack of testing.

[SirCowdog]

Hard to do something with flying. I mean can you name an obstacle they can add that doesn't have to do with knocking a player out of the air?

Floating Islands that players have to fly to, with objectives, monsters, maybe even buildings and resources on them.

Not everything needs to be an obstacle. It just needs to be something you use flying for.

They stick with what they can. Hence why Timeless Isle's features made it into the core game. WoW isn't GW2, there's barely any veticality they can create without breaking their game.

Proof needed. We've got Stormpeaks with lots of verticality, both above and below ground. There are zones like Mt Hyjal that have a fair amount, as well as some indoor areas like Blackrock Mountain.

The only reason why the game would "break" due to verticality is if it is designed to do so.

Not sure why you're arguing flying should be part of the game. It already is. Every expansion had an obstacle to obtain flying, it was never a one time deal.

Flying is not part of the game in WoD or Legion. It is only given AFTER the content is complete. And the content is not designed to use, or even recognize, that a player is flying. Argus is even worse in this regard, since, as I just mentioned, it is literally designed in such a way that flying can't be used there.

To say that flying is part of the game in WoD/Legion is only correct in the barest, most technical definition.

[Polybius]

Floating Islands that players have to fly to, with objectives, monsters, maybe even buildings and resources on them.

Not everything needs to be an obstacle. It just needs to be something you use flying for.

Just like boats.

Proof needed. We've got Stormpeaks with lots of verticality, both above and below ground. There are zones like Mt Hyjal that have a fair amount, as well as some indoor areas like Blackrock Mountain.

The only reason why the game would "break" due to verticality is if it is designed to do so.

.

Or if their engine doesn't support complex obstacles and physics. I mentioned GW2 because it does a better job, then again it was released around 2012. I'm not holding my breath on immersive flight/gliding/diving in WoW, we've seen how frustrating and clunky it can be with Kirin Tor puzzle quests.

Blackrock Mountain you can navigate without flying mounts. And it was made before them

Flying is not part of the game in WoD or Legion. It is only given AFTER the content is complete. And the content is not designed to use, or even recognize, that a player is flying. Argus is even worse in this regard, since, as I just mentioned, it is literally designed in such a way that flying can't be used there.

To say that flying is part of the game in WoD/Legion is only correct in the barest, most technical definition.

Flying was obtained after clearing content in all expansions. Gold wasn't as easy to obtain either. The only exceptions are Cata and MoP. MoP made up for it with Cloud Serpents rep, which you needed to ride other mounts.

[ReleaseDay]

Remove flying altogether and make the world more gamey to traverse ala GW2.

Completely untrue.

[huth]

No mention of the 5million that left in WoD.

You mean the ones that only joined the game after flight was removed?

[darkfire979]

I find it kinda amusing and ironic that WoW is in the process of removing/limiting flying in their game while the other MMOs are introducing flying in theirs as one of the main attractions.

[Wingspan]

I don't know exactly what the developers will do concerning flight in the next expansion, but I do know that it will end up being one of the dumbest things imaginable.

Throughout the whole flight-resticted journey of the past few years, they have constantly amazed me with thier ability to constantly one-up their bad ideas. Watching it unfold has become more entertaining to me than the actual game.

[Aehl]

I find it kinda amusing and ironic that WoW is in the process of removing/limiting flying in their game while the other MMOs are introducing flying in theirs as one of the main attractions.

Yes well Blizzard is kind of well behind the curve in a large number of areas.

Five years to install what others have had for years: appear offline, on the pretext "Its too hard"

Installs a voice system with NO opt out..yeah we have discord and vent and mumble already..

Their communication sucks big donkey balls viz: The Oceanic forums? No Blue has set foot in there in a YEAR..one of their GMs told us we matter..if thats any indication no we fucking well dont

They STILL cant seem to able to arrange Oceanic players to have actual DAYLIGHT.

Two tickets, ignored, a thread thats a year old and still going, ignored, question for the Q and A ignored......gee why is it I wonder Oceanic players are saying they are second or third class customers....

They gated flight for far too long DESPITE MASSIVE FEEDBACK asking please for gods sake no part 2 let us fly NOW and then its oops heres Argus oh sorry you cant fly..and then they are agog when people get pissed at them....

Sheesh.

[caervek]

Yeah, no flying really made WoW lose players from WotLK to MoP.

The sub loss from WotLK to MoP was tiny compared to the WoD exodus. The two big factors known to have contributed to it were the removal of two highly popular main features of the game, flying and 10m mythic.

[Deleted]

Yeah, no flying really made WoW lose players from WotLK to MoP.

Oh, wait.

I might have missed something or just have played a different WoW back then, but in WotLk and MoP there hasn't been such thing as "no flying". In both expansions i have unlocked flying as soon as i met the level requirements. To be fair, in MoP i started later, but as much as i remember there has always been flight in most of the open world zones from start to finish. No flight zones ahve been a few and pretty small so it was totally acceptable for me.

I know there are some "mentally challenged" people who think that "unlock flight at expansion start = flight while leveling". That is not what most pro-flight people want. It has been stated very clearly: "flIght at the beginning of the Expac = unlock flight after hitting max level, meaning that the character has been through all (or most of it) the content on the ground already."

TLDR: Nonsense mentioning WotLk and MoP in one sentence alongside "no-flight". There has been no such thing as "no-flight" in both the Expacs.

[MrMatticus]

Remove flying altogether and make the world more gamey to traverse ala GW2.

Considering that GW2 has semi-flying mounts now your point doesn't make sense.

[Deleted]

Hard to do something with flying. I mean can you name an obstacle they can add that doesn't have to do with knocking a player out of the air? They stick with what they can. Hence why Timeless Isle's features made it into the core game. WoW isn't GW2, there's barely any veticality they can create without breaking their game.

Not sure why you're arguing flying should be part of the game. It already is. Every expansion had an obstacle to obtain flying, it was never a one time deal. As for Argus, the Pathfinder achievement was pretty clear about what zones were included. Not to mention the fact that Argus is an instanced zone, something their engine has trouble with ever since Cata (Skywall raid was originally mentioned to have flying) and lack of testing.

Oh it is quiet easy to have obstacles that work for flying in a immersive way:
- magical forcefields that shield off/in a part of the world, and you have to beat a questline/dungeon/achievement in order to unlock that region and the corresponding forcefield
- point defense weaponary that force you to the ground every time you get close shielding of part of the map. Again an immersive way to introduce quests/bosses/achievements to be beaten in order to gain access to flight in regions.

there are sooooooo many other good ideas to integrate flight in current and future game content without breaking the game but also expand on the games possibilities. It just needs some thoughts and work to be put in. Prohibit flight and design a mace like ground gameplay keeps people occupied longer and stretches the period when new content is needed before people leave the game because of "nothing to do". But i guess Legion has shown that there are numerous ways in achieving that by keeping players occupied through doing repetitive tasks for simple points for everything.

[Tartys]

On foot... and daze now works from all directions, because artistic trickery.

Daze is not a problem, can be avoid in Legion... and even in WoD before... wil be the same after.

[Dhrizzle]

The sub loss from WotLK to MoP was tiny compared to the WoD exodus. The two big factors known to have contributed to it were the removal of two highly popular main features of the game, flying and 10m mythic.

The loss of subs in WoD was mostly countered by the huge influx at the start of the expansion (MoP had a similar surge and, like WoD, had lost more than that within two quarters.) If you ignore those peaks WoW has been losing ~100k subs per month consistently since the end of WotLK.

Whilst it's pretty common for people to point to their particular gripes as "the reason" for subs slowing/dropping I don't think you can be that simplistic when considering the massive base of current and former players, WoW's age and the change in gaming trends since WoW released.

[nyc81991]

Remove flying altogether and make the world more gamey to traverse ala GW2.

That's actually really ironic, Gw2 just released an expansion (it's awesome) and it literally added better flying mounts than WoW.

[Polybius]

That's actually really ironic, Gw2 just released an expansion (it's awesome) and it literally added better flying mounts than WoW.

This^ Playing GW2 it feels like WoW rushed it a little too early without any thought of its future, even though it served a small purpose in TBC. GW2's mounts each serve a unique purpose, and aren't streamlined or static as they are in WoW.

They tried making mounted combat a thing but it felt wrong (think Vahshjir 3D combat) and clunky (attacks aren't as responsive as our spells), so they scrapped it. I truly doubt WoW's current engine can handle better flight, they would need a massive overhaul that can amend even the issues encountered in Vashjir, The Eye raid, and The Nexus dungeon. Part of the reason flight worked very well in Outlands was most of the landscape was broken and floating in space, add to that the restricted hubs of Netherstorm and Shadowmoon Valley. It was also a novel idea for any MMO at the time.

[Wolfrick]

They should Remove flying all over, it ruins the game, also since Flight do not have any "Gravity or Flying Feeling" there should be some kind of physics around flying.

Blizzard should Remove flying as it is now, and Implement Different Mount Specializations (Jumping mounts, Rush mounts, Gliding mounts)

[Bigcountry11782]

They should Remove flying all over, it ruins the game, also since Flight do not have any "Gravity or Flying Feeling" there should be some kind of physics around flying.

Blizzard should Remove flying as it is now, and Implement Different Mount Specializations (Jumping mounts, Rush mounts, Gliding mounts)

it ruins the game???You must be one of those people that ganks lowbies huh?I don't see any reason as to why it ruins the game.

[huth]

The sub loss from WotLK to MoP was tiny compared to the WoD exodus. The two big factors known to have contributed to it were the removal of two highly popular main features of the game, flying and 10m mythic.

The sub loss was bigger, and you have no actual data to prove your assertion.

There also was no WoD "exodus". There was a short term spike in player numbers.

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I might have missed something

Yeah, the second line in my post.

[Fabinas]

The sub loss was bigger, and you have no actual data to prove your assertion.

There also was no WoD "exodus". There was a short term spike in player numbers.

Look at the Subs in WOD Launch. Then look at the subs decline in WOD till they stopped reporting subs alltogether. Compare the two.

Come back and say "sorry"