So... i belive another Stat squish is 100% mandatory next expansion

[Deleted]

they already confirmed somewhere after wod launch that another squsih is needed the exp after wod

they confirmed that when they were still on the 32bit limit. so it depends if they meant needed in a technical sense, or needed in a aesthetic/number comprehension sense.

i personally think they will not do a number squish, but instead go for the "mega damage" option. you can already see them sneaking in minor examples of htis with AP tokens that say "1 billion" intead of "1000000000" on them.

in true blizzard fashion they go "hey guys what about this idea?", everybody says "plz no", they go "ok", and then over the next 2 years they gradually put it in the game anyways and nobody bats an eye :P

[tikcol]

1 billion crit? Noob. I crit for trillions of damage.

[darklogrus]

And keeping the exponential growth will make any squishes meaningless. We'll just get back to the huge numbers faster and faster every time.

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Remove your artifact and you're barely at 2 mil.

There is ridiculous amounts of stamina ja extra HP in the artifacts.

Im at 3mil with no weapon which is still a lot considering we aren't even into the last raid yet.

[OGXanos]

Not so much a squish as a power re-balance. It shouldn't take you 15 ilvls to 'feel' a difference in your power. 1-2 should be a noticeable increase in your gameplay. I'm sure someone has probably mentioned it before me but 240ish+ item level gains in an expansion is nuts.

[Eazy]

lol.

Math is hard.

100dps
Man the next piece of gear we should give them 10% more stats
110 dps
omg 10% more damage

1000000000000000000000dps
Man the next piece of gear we should give them 10% more stats
1100000000000000000000dps
omg 10% more damage



It was much harder with higher numbers.

And that. Is a fact!

If you think that's how scaling and balancing works, then now I know why there are plenty of "Blizz, I could balance the game better than you" threads made by people of your kind. Pathetic.

[Revamp Man]

blizz stated a stat squish is coming in the next expac i think it was mentioned before legion launch

[Deleted]

This is not an issue at all tbh. They'll just scale everything down, meaning a vanilla level 40 mob that has 1.5k hp now might have 150 after patch. For instance.

I am just not a fan of the massive numbers.

And a lvl 41 mob has 151 hp, and a lvl 42 has 152.

And before long your damage goes from 10 to 100 by .4 every level. So instead of big numbers we are at very low numbers.

If they squish every 2 expansion, they will have to space out the numbers of 70 levels throughout 140 levels

[MisterBigglez]

Yeah I agree, the numbers are getting crazy.

I think they should lower them way down, to like WotLk numbers or even TBC numbers. They could make it so its relevant to the story aswell, so lets say we get a void expansion, maybe we all get cursed and have how stats drastically reduced because of it. Theres already people saying our weapons will be destroyed, why not just nuke our power also.

[Deleted]

if you think the calculation of damage numbers are the real problem, you're just plain stupid. the calculation of the visual effect of an ability is way more power consuming than just "oh, you made 1.3m damage, lets substract" ... common processors are computing at the 3GHZ range, which means the clock is 1/10^9 seconds, which is the time in which a calculation is done. the simpliest calculation is ofc the addition. it doesnt matter how big the numbers are. simple operation.

play d3 for one minute and you will crit 20 mobs for numbers in the range of ~13.000.000.000.000 and even more. not lagging at all.

[Echocho]

They need to do an iLvl squish and rework how power is calculated from the ground up otherwise it'll continue to spiral out of control. Quick and dirty fixes like the last one is just a waste of resources.

[zesilo]

A stat squish would ruin vanilla-wrath content. level 80 gear would have like 8 stamina and that would be considered high, and items before level 60 would barely have any stats. A squish wouldn't really work at this point.

The previous stat squish f***ed over tons of content, unbalanced everything before level 60, and made level 60-80 content extremely awkward.

Another stat squish will make stats even closer. Level 10 green items would be stuck at 1 stat with 1 rating (1 stamina), level 60 blues would have a total of maybe 8 stam or 4 str 4 stam and that would be considered high.

A stat squish will ruin 1-80 for sure, content after 80 won't be affected as bad but will follow the WoD stat squish where 80-90 your toon is going to overpower any mob while leveling and gear will be nearly identical stat-wise for 10 levels.

[Lahis]

It’s not just numbers. Look at what it did to levelling, you can two-shot a level 60 at level 20 due to how the stat squish pushed those levels closer together stat wise.

Actually 20 to 60 should be unaffected, even after WoD squish. That area was always linear. It's the level cap exponential growth, and the need of next expansion to compensate for that, that caused the explosion in power.

[Zenfoldor]

need an item squish and scaling squish
its not sustainable to have 45 ilvl difference in 1 tier, make that 15, its just too much

I strongly disagree with this. The vast power increases with each piece of gear allowed Legion to feel like my characters is noticeably improving with each and every passing play session. That would not be possible without allowing larger gaps in gear for players to upgrade from. Smaller gaps mean smaller upgrades per play session. A fundamental part of any rpg is feeling a power improvement as time passes. Usually in a MMO that power improvement is very small because of the large amount of time people play. With Legion they were able to balance it so that I get stronger daily over the entire course of the xpansion, and it's a major reason that you have so much more player engagement in Legion that in previous expansions IMHO.

[Schizoide]

they already confirmed somewhere after wod launch that another squsih is needed the exp after wod

That was before they fixed the 32bit integer limit. That no longer applies.

[Duckypoo]

If anything they should maybe bump the lower level numbers up a bit and double the low level mobs numbers.

[Magistrate]

they confirmed that when they were still on the 32bit limit. so it depends if they meant needed in a technical sense, or needed in a aesthetic/number comprehension sense.

i personally think they will not do a number squish, but instead go for the "mega damage" option. you can already see them sneaking in minor examples of htis with AP tokens that say "1 billion" intead of "1000000000" on them.

in true blizzard fashion they go "hey guys what about this idea?", everybody says "plz no", they go "ok", and then over the next 2 years they gradually put it in the game anyways and nobody bats an eye :P

I'm pretty sure they confirmed they would be doing another one within Legion's lifetime, too--I don't have it bookmarked anywhere and it wasn't anything firm, but I believe it was in the last several months. So much stuff goes through the dev tracker though.

Your idea is actually pretty interesting, but keep in mind stats/damage aren't on a linear growth trajectory. They will grow at a faster and faster rate until we start running into other problems, like jumping between a billion to a couple rates higher than that (trillion, septillion, idk what even really comes after a trillion) within the same expansion, and eventually, in the same content window (tier). Then everyone needs to keep straight what each one means relative to all other damage units. Also, it creates a rapidly expanding window between players in different content. Because of its exponential (and not linear) growth, we would eventually reach a point where DPS/HPS would so overwhelming exceed max level content of the previous expansion that it would be a really high bar for entry into nominal current content if you've been out for a relatively short amount of time. Like, you were a mythic raider in the end of the last expansion and the DPS/HPS units are so absurdly out of control that you can't qualify for normal dungeon runs at the start of the expansion.

I think a contributor to this issue is that they pushed so much content out so fast in Legion that we saw a huge power leap in a very short amount of time. This is a problem they'll have to figure out if they want to continue with expansions equal to Legion's lifetime.

[Schizoide]

Like, you were a mythic raider in the end of the last expansion and the DPS/HPS units are so absurdly out of control that you can't qualify for normal dungeon runs at the start of the expansion.

Wait, what? That would never happen. Every expansion is a gear reset, and normal leveling provides gear suitable for normal dungeons.

It's true that itemlvl is an exponential function, but each tier is a set amount of power greater than the previous one. 15% of 1000 agility is more than 15% of 500 agility, obviously, but the relative performance gain from your previous point does not vary.

It's also true that mudflation within each expansion is very high, but that's due to the many gear tiers for each patch combined with warforging. It's unclear how to fix that without reducing the number of tiers, removing warforging, or reducing the power gain per tier or itemlvl. I'm all for removing LFR and warforging, but want each tier to feel meaningful. Being outfitted in mythic gear you should really noticeably outperform someone in heroic.

[Duckypoo]

Wait, what? That would never happen. Every expansion is a gear reset, and normal leveling provides gear suitable for normal dungeons.

When crapaclysm was released I was in the same gear until level 83 when I replaced 1 piece. At 84 I still in mostly gear from WoLK. There was no better drops or quest items until then. I was actually really disappointed by this. Thankfully I have alts that were able to benefit form the new gear.

[3DTyrant]

I'm sure at some point before WOD they said a second stat squish would happen on the expansion after Legion.

Wasn't that mentioned in the Blizzcon where WoD was announced? I know it was mentioned some time pre-WoD...

OT: Stat squish, no stat squish, I don't really care, numbers are just numbers. Plus, isn't there an option somewhere in the menu to condense the numbers? Eg; Showing 145,500 as 145.5k?

[Trend]

As for performance ramifactions, the longer numbers get the longer it takes to do calculations.

Just FYI, you do not understand how computers work. While there will be slight and completely unnoticeable differences doing calculations with 64-bit integers versus 32-bit integers, they already changed to 64-bit so that point is moot. And a 64-bit integer will have the same performance during calculations no matter which of the bits are 0's and which of the bits are 1's. It's completely irrelevant, all 64 bits are already reserved and the gates will either be open or closed ... does not matter at all which are open and which are closed.