Total War: WARHAMMER - Official anounced

[Derah]

Sea Guards are a poor choice early game when upkeep cost is important, but much better late game where unit limits is usually what dictates your army compositions. Their ability to fend for themselves against anything but heavy cavalry or big monsters is extremely helpful.

But when it comes to ranged units, it's hard to beat Darkshards. Shielded, good damage, Archer's arc of fire so they don't need direct LoS, and almost full AP? That's very powerful. Archers do have the range advantage, and Skaven skirmishers at better at kiting, but for cost Darkshards are amazing in both single player and multiplayer. à

Dark Elves in general are just an extremely good, well rounded faction. Good heroes? Check, Malekith is a monster, the Death Hag is also quite powerful. Good infantry? Probably the best, Corsairs, Witch Elves, Black Guards and Executioners are all very cost-effective and powerful. Good ranged? Yes as I stated. Good cavalry? Mostly, Cold Ones are good, Dark Riders can be helpful. Good monsters? War Hydra and Black Dragon say hi. Good artillery? The Bolt Thrower is pretty good in general. Good magic? They basically have the best Vortex, and Lore of Shadows is not to be underestimated either.

Every other faction has holes in their roster; HEs lack solid low and mid tier infantry as well as AP ranged, Lizards lack good skirmishers, Skaven lack good magic (apart from broken summons) and good AP infantry. So I think DEs are the best faction generally because you can build damn near anything with them, and close to their entire roster is good. But I also don't feel that they are broken or anything, in fact the balance at release is remarkably better than WH1's at release, there aren't that many broken OP or useless units.

Skaven also lack cavalry.

Lizardmen have great monsters, but from briefly looking at their roster, they seem to have few ranged units other than those blowgun guys

[Deleted]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZFiuwrGiSI

This is so great

[ParanoiD84]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZFiuwrGiSI

This is so great

Gonna be even sweeter with Blood&Gore.

[Jastall]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZFiuwrGiSI

This is so great

Yeah I saw that a few days ago. The Kroxigor, Tyrion and Mazdamundi ones are my favorites. And yeah, with gore they're going to be even more glorious.

I also remember a CA rep guy saying most of these were implemented by developers on their own time, as the budget didn't allow for sync kills. That's some dedication to their product.

[Verdugo]

I hope they add more to the blood and gore, like burning or choking on the poison. I dont want to see units explode into chunks when hit by flamethrowers.

[ParanoiD84]

I hope they add more to the blood and gore, like burning or choking on the poison. I dont want to see units explode into chunks when hit by flamethrowers.

Indeed would be awesome if they added spell executions for burning, freezing etc

[Deleted]

I just wish there would be a less bloody version of it.

the one for TWW1 was way over the top and reminded me of Carmageddon.

[Omerta26]

I just wish there would be a less bloody version of it.

That's a grudgin'

[Derah]

I just wish there would be a less bloody version of it.

the one for TWW1 was way over the top and reminded me of Carmageddon.

o_O seriously?

you kiddin' me? IMO it wasn't bloody enough.

When 5 units of archers pour a torrential rain of arrows on unarmored and unshielded muscled men wearing thongs, there should be more than a few barely noticeable spurts of blood here and there. Which is what I got when I installed it.

As for graphical improvements, I wish all races had a variation of what some of the other races have when they take settlements. Specifically, in Warhammer 1, the wood elves, orcs, vampires, beastmen, norscans, and chaos warriors, alter the landscape as they take territory (its only cosmetic, with no actual gameplay attached in the case of orcs and elves, but its a nice touch nonetheless) customizing the land as they conquer the map.

Its a nice feature that would encourage me more to conquer the map as one race or the other.

[Deleted]

o_O seriously?

you kiddin' me? IMO it wasn't bloody enough.

When 5 units of archers pour a torrential rain of arrows on unarmored and unshielded muscled men wearing thongs, there should be more than a few barely noticeable spurts of blood here and there. Which is what I got when I installed it.

It's cartoony blood splatter. It's not grim in the slightest and actually comical and doesn't fit the franchise.

[cudomix]

It's cartoony blood splatter. It's not grim in the slightest and actually comical and doesn't fit the franchise.

Wot? It's Warhammer mate, where self propagating fungoid football hooligans are fighting Holy Roman Empire expies who follow Conan the Barbarian version of Jesus. There are also undead pirates, bronze age egyptian mummies and magic lizards riding bigger lizards. Very few parts of Warhammer universe are actually serious, and most grim parts are so over the top that they are actually hilarious.

[Airlick]

Every other faction has holes in their roster; HEs lack solid low and mid tier infantry as well as AP ranged, Lizards lack good skirmishers, Skaven lack good magic (apart from broken summons) and good AP infantry. So I think DEs are the best faction generally because you can build damn near anything with them, and close to their entire roster is good. But I also don't feel that they are broken or anything, in fact the balance at release is remarkably better than WH1's at release, there aren't that many broken OP or useless units.

Sea Guards are stupidly strong, they tear through anything that walks into their range. You can also use bolt throwers' single target mode. How do HEs lack AP ranged? Spearmen are near unbreakable, they'll hold until archers run out of arrows, and by then the enemy army will be gone. White Lions are very good mid tier infantry with no additional buildings requirements, they definitely fill the flanking infantry niche well until you get late game units. I've even used them later on with Alastar.

Lizardmen are supposed to be all about magic, infantry and monsters. Their warriors are supposed to be extremely strong, so it is only fitting they lack ranged units. Problem is, saurus units aren't very strong, considering their upkeep. There might be some room for small buffs or upkeep reductions for them.

Skaven magic is situational and can be ineffective (though they have very good spells that will always get some worth), but can also turn the battle with a single cast. It's similar to how they played in tabletop, or that's what a friend told me. Have you tried MfB + Warp Bomb into a clumped up stack of 5 saurus warrior units? You should. I haven't laughed this hard for a long time and fell in love with Skaven.

Point is, the different factions are supposed to have holes in their roster. They are supposed to play different from each other, and players are supposed to adapt to this. It's much better than WH1, anyway, since you actually can adapt your armies, there don't seem to be any hard counters like mammoths vs. orks.

[Jastall]

Sea Guards are stupidly strong, they tear through anything that walks into their range. You can also use bolt throwers' single target mode. How do HEs lack AP ranged? Spearmen are near unbreakable, they'll hold until archers run out of arrows, and by then the enemy army will be gone. White Lions are very good mid tier infantry with no additional buildings requirements, they definitely fill the flanking infantry niche well until you get late game units. I've even used them later on with Alastar.

Lizardmen are supposed to be all about magic, infantry and monsters. Their warriors are supposed to be extremely strong, so it is only fitting they lack ranged units. Problem is, saurus units aren't very strong, considering their upkeep. There might be some room for small buffs or upkeep reductions for them.

Skaven magic is situational and can be ineffective (though they have very good spells that will always get some worth), but can also turn the battle with a single cast. It's similar to how they played in tabletop, or that's what a friend told me. Have you tried MfB + Warp Bomb into a clumped up stack of 5 saurus warrior units? You should. I haven't laughed this hard for a long time and fell in love with Skaven.

Point is, the different factions are supposed to have holes in their roster. They are supposed to play different from each other, and players are supposed to adapt to this. It's much better than WH1, anyway, since you actually can adapt your armies, there don't seem to be any hard counters like mammoths vs. orks.

I'm talking more about multiplayer. Every faction can be highly effective vs the AI; Dwarfs and Chaos were absolute monsters in campaign despite being the worst multiplayer factions for basically all of game 1's history.

But MP is a game of counterpicks. If your opponent can pick an army that you can't effectively counterpick, you're in big trouble. So for instance, Lizards struggle vs Halberds and Nets (so HEs do well against them). Skaven get rekt by well used cavalry and Terror causing units. HEs lacking armor piercing ranged units leaves them at the mercy of a lot of dangerous monsters unless they counter them with their own, more expensive monsters. They can't sic Darkshards, Globadiers or cost-effective Carnosaurs on them like other factions can.

DEs don't have these weaknesses. They have basically no holes in their roster, they're the Empire of game 2 except they also have good monsters.

Not that the balance is terrible, it's a lot better than in game 1 and you can win as any faction against any faction. The only matchups that are really tough are Lizards vs HEs, and Skaven vs Lizards.

[I Push Buttons]

DEs don't have these weaknesses. They have basically no holes in their roster, they're the Empire of game 2 except they also have good monsters.

Range

High Elf archers (180 range) can get two, perhaps even three volleys into Darkshards (125 range) before they can even shoot back. Even if they have shields, that will mess them up.

For example (9 archers vs 9 shielded dark shards):


This is with equally sized armies, just as an example... The Dark Elf army was like 1250 gold more expensive. So if this was actual MP you could get more units of archers for the same price and make this result even more pronounced.

[Jastall]

Range

High Elf archers (180 range) can get two, perhaps even three volleys into Darkshards (125 range) before they can even shoot back. Even if they have shields, that will mess them up.

For example (9 archers vs 9 shielded dark shards):


This is with equally sized armies, just as an example... The Dark Elf army was like 1250 gold more expensive. So if this was actual MP you could get more units of archers for the same price and make this result even more pronounced.

Range may be an advantage in a pure ranged duel (mostly because it allows you to focus fire) but against anything else it's not really that good. When a Carnosaur or Black Dragon (or several) is bearing down on your backline at speed 75+, you're much rather have armor piercing missiles than 55 extra range which lasts for all of 2-3 seconds against fast units. Same deal with elite infantry or cavalry which are almost invariably well armored and will take, far from damage from Darkshard volleys than from archers. And if you're wasting arrows targeting enemy ranged units while ignoring priority targets, you're going to lose anyways.

[Deleted]

Wot? It's Warhammer mate, where self propagating fungoid football hooligans are fighting Holy Roman Empire expies who follow Conan the Barbarian version of Jesus. There are also undead pirates, bronze age egyptian mummies and magic lizards riding bigger lizards. Very few parts of Warhammer universe are actually serious, and most grim parts are so over the top that they are actually hilarious.

What you describe has nothing to do with what I said.

And the last sentence is pretty much just an opinion... when I played Warhammer online, Vermintide, Deathwing and Gothic Armada - it was certainly not "amusing" but grim and sinister - same deal with TWW.

When a monster splashes into a group of people (or even zombies, which splash just as much) and I see quake-like splatter effects it doesn't fit. It takes all the credibility of these monsters and units away

Range

High Elf archers (180 range) can get two, perhaps even three volleys into Darkshards (125 range) before they can even shoot back. Even if they have shields, that will mess them up.

For example (9 archers vs 9 shielded dark shards):


This is with equally sized armies, just as an example... The Dark Elf army was like 1250 gold more expensive. So if this was actual MP you could get more units of archers for the same price and make this result even more pronounced.

You just tested missle infantry vs missle infantry....how about you send some chosen or 140 armor dinosaurs into both of these and see which volley will deal more damage and see if the additional range will still help you after the first 2 volleys.

[I Push Buttons]

You just tested missle infantry vs missle infantry....what's the point.

To illustrate that Dark Elf missile units need to get dick deep into the battle before they can do any damage, all the while being fired at by High Elf missile infantry.

[Deleted]

To illustrate that Dark Elf missile units need to get dick deep into the battle before they can do any damage, all the while being fired at by High Elf missile infantry.

So I tested the same thing.... the Darkspears demolish the Archers in AI vs AI.

Still not sure what you were testing there.

811 units deployed each - 200 DE losses vs 400 HE losses - Darkelf race ability just started right before the end of the battle (which buffs the race a ton).

Range is simply not a weakness for Dark Elves... they could also use Shades, with have stalk (so range is useless because you don't see them as HE), are good against infantry in melee combat and are even stronger in range than Darkspears.

Range v Range duel is kinda useless because you don't/shouldn't have time to focus range units with your own in MP unless you are winning. Both you and your enemy should be busy focusing down something that is in your backline/big/important

[Derah]

So, Mortal Empires finally has a release date. October 26th.

Now we just need a release date for the Blood and Gore DLC.

Source

(Disclaimer: Though apparently that's a "soft date". Meaning, they hope to have it out by then, but it could be pushed back another week or two if shit goes sideways.)

[Jastall]

To illustrate that Dark Elf missile units need to get dick deep into the battle before they can do any damage, all the while being fired at by High Elf missile infantry.

And again, that's kind of irrelevant in an actual battle against a smart opponent. If you have Malekith overhead casting Blade Winds and breaths, a pack of Cold Ones raping your backline, and a Hydra plowing through your White Lions, targeting the Darkshards with your archers is the last thing you want to do. Missile units are best used to take down priority targets which are usually monsters, cavalry and heavy infantry. And at that job, Darkshards are just better than Archers thanks to their AP damage. The extra range is nice, don't get me wrong, but I'd exchange it for AP in a heartbeat.

Also had a pretty epic last stand in my HE campaign. A ritual spawned 4 armies, 2 Chaos and 2 Skaven, next to an army that was building up. A 14 unit army + 7 unit garrison beat off a Chaos 18 stack filled with Chosen and Chaos Knights, then two separate Skaven 16-17 stacks, all in the same enemy turn. Thankfully it wasn't 4 Chaos stacks because then I'd have been trounced; Skaven stacks are far easier to deal with once you've taken out their artillery and Lord. At the end of the last battle I was literally chasing the last unit of Gutter Runners around with the 300 or so Elves left in my army, including archers which had all used up their arrows, a Bolt Thrower crew and my MVP Lord with 300 hp left. Sadly the other Chaos stack attacked another settlement and rolled over its garrison. Fortunately Teclis is right next and has Dragon Princes, Swordmasters and a Star Dragon in his army. This will be entertaining.