What options are available for the nightborne?

[digichi]

Yeah, if they did sub races, nightbourne would be a too-ez pick for night elves.

Like others are wondering- what the hell would forsaken get? Forsaken are dead humans, correct? (i'm not too big on lore so i can't talk about the lore aspect of why they're undead in the first place, but i am interested.)
So... we would get undead... trolls? A further-decayed forsaken perhaps? (with extra bones popping out/rotting off face... maybe not PG enough tho).

How would they work?

[Mace]

Yeah, if they did sub races, nightbourne would be a too-ez pick for night elves.

Like others are wondering- what the hell would forsaken get? Forsaken are dead humans, correct? (i'm not too big on lore so i can't talk about the lore aspect of why they're undead in the first place, but i am interested.)
So... we would get undead... trolls? A further-decayed forsaken perhaps? (with extra bones popping out/rotting off face... maybe not PG enough tho).

How would they work?

Well, Forsaken could get a less decayed version with a twist, i.e. vampires. It gives them a unique alternative human model, as these guys would not look like your alliance human but built differently, like skinny but pretty looking types with the dark vibe to them. They'd probably have a vampire mode, where there face/eyes and probably hands transform in a similar way to series like Twilight or Vampire diary series.

It's unique because these can be based on an upright whole flesh looking forsaken model, with adapted forsaken animations. But it also brings a pretty option to the horde that is horde like because they are Forsaken and they are undead, they're just not ghouls/zombies. People often forget the forsaken are human also, and don't often consider them as equals and appropriate counters to the alliance humans.

This perception can shift, as vampires would give a real sense of Lordaeron as a nation again but firmly linked to the horde as they are ruled by the undead. There is much they can do with this. I also think it would be healthy overall for the game to have a nearer human option on the horde, but lets not kid ourselves, this is sub-race material not full race.

Although you could make a full race out of them like they did for worgen, with a combo of the new vampire model and look including his vampiric mode.

For a visual idea, take a look at these pictures of the Diablo 3 Necromancer: As you can see, these humans look very different from your stormwind human, and have that vampire feel and look to them, now imagine they had a vampire mode where their face gains a controtion, with fangs, red eyes and claws when about to feed or attack.
https://www.pcinvasion.com/wp-conten...red_5-Shot.jpg
https://thumbs.mic.com/MDliZTViMTQyZ...0wbTkuanBn.jpg
https://static.gamespot.com/uploads/...3255-necro.jpg



This is just an example, which highlights you can have something good, it's near human but not anything like alliance human. It has a forsaken and vampirish vibe to it. The males and females are obviously skinnier than the sturdy stormwind humans, and they have that dark vibe to them that fits the forsaken. Afterall if Sylvannas herself can be a dark queen that looks whole and not ghoulish at all, surely she can have an elite pack non-ghoul undead forsaken with a vampire twist to them.

[digichi]

Well, Forsaken could get a less decayed version with a twist, i.e. vampires. It gives them a unique alternative human model, as these guys would not look like your alliance human but built differently, like skinny but pretty looking types with the dark vibe to them. They'd probably have a vampire mode, where there face/eyes and probably hands transform in a similar way to series like Twilight or Vampire diary series.

It's unique because these can be based on an upright whole flesh looking forsaken model, with adapted forsaken animations. But it also brings a pretty option to the horde that is horde like because they are Forsaken and they are undead, they're just not ghouls/zombies. People often forget the forsaken are human also, and don't often consider them as equals and appropriate counters to the alliance humans.

This perception can shift, as vampires would give a real sense of Lordaeron as a nation again but firmly linked to the horde as they are ruled by the undead. There is much they can do with this. I also think it would be healthy overall for the game to have a nearer human option on the horde, but lets not kid ourselves, this is sub-race material not full race.

Although you could make a full race out of them like they did for worgen, with a combo of the new vampire model and look including his vampiric mode.

For a visual idea, take a look at these pictures of the Diablo 3 Necromancer: As you can see, these humans look very different from your stormwind human, and have that vampire feel and look to them, now imagine they had a vampire mode where their face gains a controtion, with fangs, red eyes and claws when about to feed or attack.
https://www.pcinvasion.com/wp-conten...red_5-Shot.jpg
https://thumbs.mic.com/MDliZTViMTQyZ...0wbTkuanBn.jpg
https://static.gamespot.com/uploads/...3255-necro.jpg



This is just an example, which highlights you can have something good, it's near human but not anything like alliance human. It has a forsaken and vampirish vibe to it. The males and females are obviously skinnier than the sturdy stormwind humans, and they have that dark vibe to them that fits the forsaken. Afterall if Sylvannas herself can be a dark queen that looks whole and not ghoulish at all, surely she can have an elite pack non-ghoul undead forsaken with a vampire twist to them.

interesting. a withered human with a vampire vibe would suit the undead subrace pretty well i think.
also goes with that whole gothic aesthetic they have going on there.

[DeicideUH]

Yeah, if they did sub races, nightbourne would be a too-ez pick for night elves.

Like others are wondering- what the hell would forsaken get? Forsaken are dead humans, correct? (i'm not too big on lore so i can't talk about the lore aspect of why they're undead in the first place, but i am interested.)
So... we would get undead... trolls? A further-decayed forsaken perhaps? (with extra bones popping out/rotting off face... maybe not PG enough tho).

How would they work?

Forsaken actually have two possibilities: forsaken elves (like Sylvanas' Dark Rangers) and Nathanos-like "human" Forsaken. Beyond Nathanos, you see human-looking undead vampires in Stormheim.

[ravenmoon]

Forsaken actually have two possibilities: forsaken elves (like Sylvanas' Dark Rangers) and Nathanos-like "human" Forsaken. Beyond Nathanos, you see human-looking undead vampires in Stormheim.

it's the human looking forsaken that i would give the vampire twist too, it spices them up a bit and gives them an edge almost like there is more to them than just human.

[digichi]

Forsaken actually have two possibilities: forsaken elves (like Sylvanas' Dark Rangers) and Nathanos-like "human" Forsaken. Beyond Nathanos, you see human-looking undead vampires in Stormheim.

Oooooh okay. that sounds pretty sick actually. i could see some cool customization options with those.

[Pony Soldier]

Well if they ever add sub-races the Nightborne would be a cool option. Other than that I have no idea. They need that mana fruit to survive so I can't see how they will live in other lands without it unless Blizzard pulls something out of their ass that lets them.

[DeicideUH]

Well if they ever add sub-races the Nightborne would be a cool option. Other than that I have no idea. They need that mana fruit to survive so I can't see how they will live in other lands without it unless Blizzard pulls something out of their ass that lets them.

The fruit cures them, they do not need it constantly.

[ravenmoon]

Oooooh okay. that sounds pretty sick actually. i could see some cool customization options with those.

although undead elves would be a blood elf sub-race not a forsaken one. Remember forsaken is a particular faction of undead. Free-willed undead humans even though it's led by an undead elf. Other undead groups and factions are not loyal to it although they can ally with them. You have the scourge still bound by the current lich king, the San'layn darkfallen elves who are probablyfree doing their own thing after Arthas died. You also have the Ebon Blade the faction of DKs, the DK being loyal to the Ebon Blade, their original race and the faction of their race.

So undead elves on the forsaken rosta would make a species shift for the group, which is not what they are. People probably confused because Sylvannas is their leader and she's an elf, but it's a playable undead human group not the undead group. I admit, they would be cool though.

[Pony Soldier]

The fruit cures them, they do not need it constantly.

Oooh I thought it was just another source of energy to feed on. TIL.

[digichi]

although undead elves would be a blood elf sub-race not a forsaken one. Remember forsaken is a particular faction of undead. Free-willed undead humans even though it's led by an undead elf. Other undead groups and factions are not loyal to it although they can ally with them. You have the scourge still bound by the current lich king, the San'layn darkfallen elves who are probablyfree doing their own thing after Arthas died. You also have the Ebon Blade the faction of DKs, the DK being loyal to the Ebon Blade, their original race and the faction of their race.

So undead elves on the forsaken rosta would make a species shift for the group, which is not what they are. People probably confused because Sylvannas is their leader and she's an elf, but it's a playable undead human group not the undead group. I admit, they would be cool though.

ok, limited to -humans-. thats the thing i wasn't sure about yeah. if they did subraces, humans like nathanos(? i think thats his name) would still be nice to see. however, because he uses the standard human-alliance model, i think that a larger portion of the playerbase would go 'humanz on the horde side!?! hhuuuuahh?????' lol.

also i think blizz explains that race-class combinations rely heavily on the lore of what faction that race comes from. (i heard thats how dwarves got to be shamans. the playable dwarf races are from the wildhammer clan, and cant be shamans, but they 'learnt' it from another clan during the cataclysm..) so in theory, if we got subraces, would their class combos be different from the main race? or would they be 'similar' enough that there's no reason to prune/add classes to a subrace... i feel like im going down a rabbit hole of design here ive never thought about lol.

[ravenmoon]

that's all true, but lets not forget they also wanted their people whole again, that Dire Maul is not lost and they got the re-enforcements to claim it back. Afterall don't we the adventurers free Dire Maul for Estulan . The future is not in being apart from their people but together has a whole, the same logic can extend to the nightborne who gain a lot more from connecting with the night elves than they do with the blood elves, and the night elves gain a lot more from the nightborne than the blood elves do too

Indeed and that's because of the events 10k years ago, already we have the druids recognising highborne like Estulan and Evenshade as uncorrupted, which shows that while some of MAiev's ilk are still suspicious .. i guess it's natural for policeman types to always be so, most of the more stable minded recognise times have move d on - and being suspicious towards the shen'dralar highborne doens't mean the same suspicion would extend to the nightborne or the moonguard or the farondis highborne. REmember the nighborne weren't all highborne, and their history is not the same as the Eldre'thalas night elves or the Zin'Azshari ones, Suramar rebelled against the Queen across the board, and it was from their the army that marched on her came from.

Embracing or allying with highborne or nightborne doesn't mean kaldorei culture will revolve around the arcane. If you look at kaldorei culture it is actually quite segregated, the druids are totally separate from the priests/hunters, and the mages would be too. The highborne/nightborne would revolve around the arcane, but the druids won't and the priests won't either. They've largely functioned like that, it's jsut htat now a large numbe rof kaldorei are druids so you see that influence, with the arcane numbers boosting significanlty with the nightborne, you willl that influence too, but only in the urban areas, they still won't mix, each has their own puruists.. these guys are very fixated on what theya re called to do which is why they have gained such phenomenal mastery over magic whether arcane, nature or divine.


Allying with the night elves is not logical, you speak as if reconciliation would be some strenous and difficult task where it actually feels the organic thing to do. The influence and presence of the highborne, the shift in attitudes towards mmagic and the genereral segregation of night elf osciety make it rather easy.

And character wise, any dobuts or hesitation or questions about the Shal'dorei worthiness to stand tall amongst their kaldorei kin have been emphatically ansered by their behaviour dealing with teh legion culminating in the decision to drain the nightwell, they've acted eactly in theway thier kaldorei other half acted in the war of the ancients, so i don't think it would be hard tfor any night elf even the most reluctant to trust the shal'dorei. And Farodin is a druid Valewalker, you have mage ones too, they are an order made of the primitive druids (the night elf nature users in the time before Malfurion found Cenarius and highborne mages). That was only at their formation, obviously as more than 10k years have passed, the lieks of Farodin's druidc knoweldge would have grown and he likely would have at some point learnt and extended his knowledge under Cenarius or Malfurion. Valewalker is an order not a class, an order of druids and mages.

Suramar being a soverign nation doesn't predispose it to be more suited or a better fit to sIlvermoon , ti's a night and day difference, one is nocturnal the other dirunal, both are arcane and elven tha'ts what they share, but one belongs to the night the other to the day , Blodo elves aren't rembracing night ways and kaldorei empreire ways, night elvs though are embracing their arcane heritage and have highborne amognst them who follow the empire traditions and cultures, the blood elves do not. They have more for them in terms of similarities, what htey are use to, in terms of history and in terms of new things and opporutnieis for growth alongside the night elves than they do the blood elves.

it doesn't mean they will or shoudl hate the blood elves, no. I think one of the nice things about 7.1 onwards is showing that the nightborne can also get along with the blood elves and aren't necessarily enemies to them like they are with the night elves. I also don't think the nightborne allying with the night elves would make them automatic enemies of the blood elves. I see it better and actually far more happening amongst the night elves/nightborne than with nightborne and blood elves, but just because the nightborne night elves are becomingwhole again doesn't mean the nightborne or highborne have to hate the blood elves. And lore has shown us they do not. THe highborne taught the blood elves reforging. Tyrande may not approve, but it shows that they are not goverened by her, even though they work alongside her. (night elf segregated society remember? - it's what make sthem unique..

what i like about the nightborne is the dark elf arcane fantasy that was part of the kaldorei empire in the early lore. I really wanted this to come back to the night elves, as its a part of them i like the most. Now in honesty, it doesn't have to be a part of the alliance, it just has to be, but i think its nicer that the 3 sides of the night elves are finally working together rather than fighting or hating each other like has happened for the last 10k years.

I also view the nightborne as blizzard giving the night elf arcane option properly because blood elves can never fill that role, nor high elves if they are to maintain the night elf - blood elf hate that is based on the exile. This meant that you had to give the night elves their own magic users back.. which works out great, because the blood elves would never restore a night kingdom or empire, they would promote a day one after their own fashion.

And it's faster to resurrect the night elf empire like they did by brining Suramar back and its people rather than have the night elves start some rapid building /development program .. i'd rather an additional city than only doing up an existing one like Dire Maul, because then we acn get two at some point when Dire Maul is done up properly.

- - - Updated - - -

ok, limited to -humans-. thats the thing i wasn't sure about yeah. if they did subraces, humans like nathanos(? i think thats his name) would still be nice to see. however, because he uses the standard human-alliance model, i think that a larger portion of the playerbase would go 'humanz on the horde side!?! hhuuuuahh?????' lol.

also i think blizz explains that race-class combinations rely heavily on the lore of what faction that race comes from. (i heard thats how dwarves got to be shamans. the playable dwarf races are from the wildhammer clan, and cant be shamans, but they 'learnt' it from another clan during the cataclysm..) so in theory, if we got subraces, would their class combos be different from the main race? or would they be 'similar' enough that there's no reason to prune/add classes to a subrace... i feel like im going down a rabbit hole of design here ive never thought about lol.

personally, I would make them different, and probably fewer, it helps make their identity a bit more unique and distinctive. While they may be allied with the main race, they are their own people - and you would have varying degrees of co-operation between from very chummy, open to on the border of hostile.

[Mace]

Talking about options for the nightborne, has me thining of the overall direction the night elves as a whole (which includes the nightborne) should be going.

Malfurion and Tyrande, Night elves need new and progressive leaders for their plot to progress in any way.

Tyrande and Malfurion need to go back to leading their orders rather than a night elf nation, as night elves are actually seggregatedinto their orders that only come together for big threats rather than some big nation or organisation. The druids are involved with nature and the world balancing/healing, the priests with the will of Elune and the prusuits she leads them to tackle, they also governed the night elf government, which didn't need anything big, because the people weren't centralized. Until now, which is why the arcane night elves (i.e nightborne and highborne) again will live their own lives too with their leaders, only coming together for big threats - it's almost clan like but not quite, as they've far evolved past tribalsm, past unilateralism and empire, to this state that works, bound by the common sense of good. The arcane night elves are back, and they are quite progressive.. Thalyssra and the nightborne, the handful of Shen'dralar, Farondis the highborne, night elves have some exciting options from their past to drive them forward, not to mention Illidan sparking new admirers amongst his people pushing htem to new limits.

Night elves should be ruled by the 3 orders, Thalyssra represnting the arcane encompassing the nightborne and highborne with their capital in Suramar and Eldre'thalas. Tyrande the High Priestess, from either the Cathedral of Eternal Night or Darnassus, and Malfurion the druids from either Hyjal, Moonglade or Vals'harh. There is also Mordant Evenshade of the Highborne althoguh the highborne and their new apprentices aren't that many, unlessthey incorporate the remaining surviors and Prince Totheldrin, but if they do, it would likely mean Totheldrinn ruling them especially now that the demon Imolthar is dead and he seems to be rid of its influence.

MAlfruion and Tyrande don't need to die, they need to become more useful. I liiked seeing them in action, but there was so much more we can see and have use of Tyrande in Suramar and the Borken shore.. blizzard really don't seem to like writing her.She returns to her home city as High priestess, to a people who've been locked away from the light of mother moon for 10k years, desperately in need of help and the compassion and healing a priesthood can bring as well as the avenging power of the moon to rip the demons apart, inspiring a following to return to Elune, something many of them would have remembered fondly from before the sundering. Instead we see her as alliance commander, where it should have been Shandris, with Tyrande settling into a far more neutral role, following the trend in Val'sharah. So to progress forward they should now show this part of what happened, strenghting the connection and influence on the nightborne and from the nightborne and Suramar that goes both ways and produces this new future.

then the Broken shore should then see the Sisterhood and the grateful new converts really having a much larger role with regards to the shore and the tomb of Sargeras which is the Cathedral of eternal night. The official excuse is that the patch focused on the player hero's order halls, but this was also going on at the same time, just not shown in game.

So much stuff for her, we've seen the druidd side of the night elves, we've seen the martial side to the order ofElune and we've seen the arcane kaldorei empire side tot he night elves, we haven't seen what the priesthood was like before the sundering, when they oprated far more as priests than as huntresses/sentinels and scouts.

There is much use left for both Tyrande and Malfurion, we just need to se more of the other sides of the night elves too, like the nightborne/highborne, and the other characters and people.. there is the Moonguard, there are the Watchers - with Jarod and Maiev - how are they reacting returning to Suramar their home city? or Even Shandris, does she have any relatives that survived in the city amongst the nightborne.

Certainly there is a new and exciting dimension to the night elves, and Tyrande and Malfurion still have roles there. Not to mention we needt o see the effect Illidan's return, and the truths bout the legion, and magic that all expose their imprisonment of him to be wrongul, his actions that were reviled and critcised would now be seen as showing great vision and being right. This would inspire a lot of night elves to a more effective and aggressive apporach to their combat, inpsiring them, and at the same time also giving them a lot more confidence to re-adopt their arcane heritage, whcih it so conveniently turns out that an entire city of their ancietn empire, full of their kin who never stopped wielding it has returned. They, (the nightborne) are desperatly in need of numbers, resources to replenish, and the isle is full of night elves inspired to seice their desitny and wield their birthright to extinguish the evil of the legion or new threats like the void. Which i'd love to see the nightborne play a role in spotting since night elven arcane magic is all about the stars and moon, and we see that they've been abe to peer into worlds with their heavenward focus, (look at the Etraeus fight - but while he gave in to the darkness and the void, the nightborne are using their magic to fight it, and the night elves recently inspired by the return of their city, cure ofr magical addiction and the knoweldge to heal the scars of the past where they wrongly blamed the WEll and magic should inpsire a whole oad of help to pursue those fronts.

With the night well dissipated, the night elvs now have the determination but also the wisdom and sense of balance to handle wielding the Well of Eternity, Malfruion should object to this, but Tyrande and Illidan and Mordant Evenshade should point out how the night elves and the nightborne have proven their mastry over magic by being willing to give up the nightwell and by going 10k years without magic (Kaldorei) now they can embrace their heritagewith cconfidence, and conviction, which should be an awesome sight to behold... and give a galvanisation similar to what we saw in the blood elves when the Sunwell was restored or the DRaenei when they found a new home and strong allies in Azeroth and her denizens. Or the orcs when they foudn their purpose and their ancestral roots after the slavery of the intermittent camps - it's like a reboot, with freshenergy and zeal, one that shouuld see the arcane element /aspects of the night elvs grow to the same level of influence as the priesthood and the druids.. which with the nightborne and Suramar, they should have the numbers to make that happen.

It's not Tyrande and Malfurion that are the problem, and they don't need to die to have any of this happen, in fact they are essential part in the diversity and development of the group, just no longer the only parts to it, with Illidan, Thalyssra, Farondis all playing major roles.

There is also Elune - Elune could work miracles, like restoringthe Court of Farondis to life, and/or rre-firing the nightwell into a font of pure silver arcane energy, telling the nightborne and the night elves that thier actions (dissipating the nightwell and going 10k years without magic) have proved that they are no longer slaves to it, but now true masters of it, their training is complete, and they should embrace every talent and aspeact of their heritage for the war against the shadow to come.

[Destinas]

Considering the fact that we saw the major elven factions working together with Thalyssra in Suramar, it's a safe bet that the Nightborne will be playable in one way or another. I'm betting they'll be a shared subrace to both Night Elves and Blood Elves. Which makes sense - they are related to both through the Highborne, and their customs and beliefs are similar to both modern-day cultures. They even have characters to justify druids (High Botanist Tel'arn), demon hunters and warlocks (the Felborne), hunters (Syrenne), and even - as a stretch - shamans (Spellblade Aluriel). We also, of course, see mages, rogues, and warriors.

Of course, in this instance, subraces would have their own set of classes they could and could not be. Obviously, blood elves aren't druids or shamans. Night elves don't have playable shamans or warlocks. We don't see any examples of Nightborne priests, as well.

[ravenmoon]

Considering the fact that we saw the major elven factions working together with Thalyssra in Suramar, it's a safe bet that the Nightborne will be playable in one way or another. I'm betting they'll be a shared subrace to both Night Elves and Blood Elves. Which makes sense - they are related to both through the Highborne, and their customs and beliefs are similar to both modern-day cultures. They even have characters to justify druids (High Botanist Tel'arn), demon hunters and warlocks (the Felborne), hunters (Syrenne), and even - as a stretch - shamans (Spellblade Aluriel). We also, of course, see mages, rogues, and warriors.

Of course, in this instance, subraces would have their own set of classes they could and could not be. Obviously, blood elves aren't druids or shamans. Night elves don't have playable shamans or warlocks. We don't see any examples of Nightborne priests, as well.

whiles what you are saying makes sense, I have to object to how you phrased the relationship. it's not that nightborne are related to both night elves and blood elves, NIGHTBORNE ARE the night elves of Suramar. They are not related to them, they are the same people who started their lives fully night elven, but have been altered a little bit by the nightwell. They are not descendants or some different group, they are the original Kaldorei empire group. They were not all highborne either, some of them were, but know that this is the night elf the highborne still consider as night elf.

It's important in recognises that though the larget night elf group has followed a very different path to the arcane culture, this culture is not dead but still very much alive in the highborne of Dire Maul and the nightborne of Suramar. IT is a night elven arcane culture. I add the arcane to distinguish it from the night elves you play who are now reforming their society from a purely nature one as elements from their past return to them free of their corruption but not of their convictions. This is an important statement.

Important because it helps frame the identity of the nightborne and highborne as every bit night elven as the alliance kaldorei. Know that it is a facet and identity of the night elves and shows you that there is more than one way that night elves live. This is something wow didn't show. It seldom showed you the non-druid lifestyle of the night elves as the priesthood and sneintel life was rarely ever seen. The arcane side was only briefly touched upon in cataclysm. In Legion we see a lot more of the other parts. We see the arcane side, the kaldorei empire in its glory state in Suramar and the nightborne show you what living kaldorei arcane culture is like - this is not blood elf culture, the blood elves are descended from night elves, but after their exile from Malfurion's surviving group they built their own culture. You see similarities to the kaldorei empire, because they were originally kaldorei empire elves so although manything changed, there are also many similarities, and blizzard has to show this, because there is a link.

But because there is a link and you see how they are connected, shouldn't cuse you to think that nightborne are blood elves or nightborne are related to night elves like blood elves are. It's more intimate than that, nightborne are the arcane night elves, whereas Azsuna shows you the effects of the devastation of the sundering on the night elves in an updated form, far more detail than deoslace or ashenvale r Feralas showed you. Legion doesn't stop with the arcane presenation of the night elves because it greatly expands on the Wardens which were completely absent from wow, even during the Hyjal zone done in cataclysm. We also see the sentinels in action largely in SUramar 7.1 but a little bit in Val'sharah in the Ysera death scene. Finally we see greatly expanded the demon hunter side of the night elves, and whiles this is not really presented as part of the night elves ( it has blood elves too remember), it very much is much larger than earlier presentations (the 1 guy in nagrand, the 1 guy in Felwood and the 1 guy in Blasted lands) they are now full fledged group that is shaping the destiny of th world, like the Wardens, the nightborne, the court of FArondis and to a lesser extent the Moonguard.

- - - Updated - - -

Priests and druids I can easily see happening for the nightborne. Certainly priests, I can understand why they've had no preists for 10k years, seeing that the High Priestess took all of them from Suramar to march on Azshara, so there were none left to guide those who were under the shield when it went up and stayed up.

Now its down, and the high priestess herself has returned, along with the Cathedral of Eternal Night being liberated, it's fair to say that the faith nightborne interested in religion would pick up again would be Elune and the actions would have inspired afew totake thatpath. It is worth also noting that the nightborne have the ELune faith, they just don't have anyone dedicated to worshipping her as the priests do. It's just like our society where many people are Christian but are not Christian like the church folk are, they believe in the reality of God and Jesus but are not active followers.

Occuleth mentions with longing in his voice about remembering the prayers that use to go up to Elune at the temple of Falanaar. Whiles he is not a religious elf, it doesn't mean he does not believe in Elune. The nightborne are night elves remember, they did not cast off anything Kaldorei like the high elves did when Malfurion exiled them. They basically continued exactly in the state the kaldorei empire was butunder Elisande's leadership instead of Azshara's (so a political re-organization, with an order head, like a university Chancellor leading them instead of a monarch). The exact same attitudes good, bad, ugly or beautiful can stil be seen here 10k years later, it is safe to assume belief but not necessarily devotion to the goddess still remains. Her shrines are still beautifully decorated and tended, with flowers and a lot of reverence to those lost in the war of the anceitns defending Suramar and fighting Azshara and the demons.

This speaks to belief in Elune still there, just not any devotion. Something the return of the high priestess will facilitiate.

As for druids, well we can see that too, the like of high botanist Tel'am is not isolated, we saw a ton of nature loving nightborne in that section, and if those were the evil ones, there must be tons of good ones too in the rest of the populace. They'd be very thrilled about being able to see the outdoors, the stars, and the forests, and would be very much interested in the Valewalker order which is a mix of druids and mages. I can see them also fascinated and eager to learn from the druids especially when they hear of the world shifting feats their mastery of magic has achieved (like growing Teldrassil, regrowing entire forests, cloaking an entire continent in mist, suppressing arcane magic continent wide) these aren't small feats, and add to that winning the 2nd burning legion invasion by defeating Archimonde.

Talking about options for the nightborne, has me thining of the overall direction the night elves as a whole (which includes the nightborne) should be going.



Tyrande and Malfurion need to go back to leading their orders rather than a night elf nation, as night elves are actually seggregatedinto their orders that only come together for big threats rather than some big nation or organisation. The druids are involved with nature and the world balancing/healing, the priests with the will of Elune and the prusuits she leads them to tackle, they also governed the night elf government, which didn't need anything big, because the people weren't centralized. Until now, which is why the arcane night elves (i.e nightborne and highborne) again will live their own lives too with their leaders, only coming together for big threats - it's almost clan like but not quite, as they've far evolved past tribalsm, past unilateralism and empire, to this state that works, bound by the common sense of good. The arcane night elves are back, and they are quite progressive.. Thalyssra and the nightborne, the handful of Shen'dralar, Farondis the highborne, night elves have some exciting options from their past to drive them forward, not to mention Illidan sparking new admirers amongst his people pushing htem to new limits.

Night elves should be ruled by the 3 orders, Thalyssra represnting the arcane encompassing the nightborne and highborne with their capital in Suramar and Eldre'thalas. Tyrande the High Priestess, from either the Cathedral of Eternal Night or Darnassus, and Malfurion the druids from either Hyjal, Moonglade or Vals'harh. There is also Mordant Evenshade of the Highborne althoguh the highborne and their new apprentices aren't that many, unlessthey incorporate the remaining surviors and Prince Totheldrin, but if they do, it would likely mean Totheldrinn ruling them especially now that the demon Imolthar is dead and he seems to be rid of its influence.

MAlfruion and Tyrande don't need to die, they need to become more useful. I liiked seeing them in action, but there was so much more we can see and have use of Tyrande in Suramar and the Borken shore.. blizzard really don't seem to like writing her.She returns to her home city as High priestess, to a people who've been locked away from the light of mother moon for 10k years, desperately in need of help and the compassion and healing a priesthood can bring as well as the avenging power of the moon to rip the demons apart, inspiring a following to return to Elune, something many of them would have remembered fondly from before the sundering. Instead we see her as alliance commander, where it should have been Shandris, with Tyrande settling into a far more neutral role, following the trend in Val'sharah. So to progress forward they should now show this part of what happened, strenghting the connection and influence on the nightborne and from the nightborne and Suramar that goes both ways and produces this new future.

then the Broken shore should then see the Sisterhood and the grateful new converts really having a much larger role with regards to the shore and the tomb of Sargeras which is the Cathedral of eternal night. The official excuse is that the patch focused on the player hero's order halls, but this was also going on at the same time, just not shown in game.

So much stuff for her, we've seen the druidd side of the night elves, we've seen the martial side to the order ofElune and we've seen the arcane kaldorei empire side tot he night elves, we haven't seen what the priesthood was like before the sundering, when they oprated far more as priests than as huntresses/sentinels and scouts.

There is much use left for both Tyrande and Malfurion, we just need to se more of the other sides of the night elves too, like the nightborne/highborne, and the other characters and people.. there is the Moonguard, there are the Watchers - with Jarod and Maiev - how are they reacting returning to Suramar their home city? or Even Shandris, does she have any relatives that survived in the city amongst the nightborne.

Certainly there is a new and exciting dimension to the night elves, and Tyrande and Malfurion still have roles there. Not to mention we needt o see the effect Illidan's return, and the truths bout the legion, and magic that all expose their imprisonment of him to be wrongul, his actions that were reviled and critcised would now be seen as showing great vision and being right. This would inspire a lot of night elves to a more effective and aggressive apporach to their combat, inpsiring them, and at the same time also giving them a lot more confidence to re-adopt their arcane heritage, whcih it so conveniently turns out that an entire city of their ancietn empire, full of their kin who never stopped wielding it has returned. They, (the nightborne) are desperatly in need of numbers, resources to replenish, and the isle is full of night elves inspired to seice their desitny and wield their birthright to extinguish the evil of the legion or new threats like the void. Which i'd love to see the nightborne play a role in spotting since night elven arcane magic is all about the stars and moon, and we see that they've been abe to peer into worlds with their heavenward focus, (look at the Etraeus fight - but while he gave in to the darkness and the void, the nightborne are using their magic to fight it, and the night elves recently inspired by the return of their city, cure ofr magical addiction and the knoweldge to heal the scars of the past where they wrongly blamed the WEll and magic should inpsire a whole oad of help to pursue those fronts.

With the night well dissipated, the night elvs now have the determination but also the wisdom and sense of balance to handle wielding the Well of Eternity, Malfruion should object to this, but Tyrande and Illidan and Mordant Evenshade should point out how the night elves and the nightborne have proven their mastry over magic by being willing to give up the nightwell and by going 10k years without magic (Kaldorei) now they can embrace their heritagewith cconfidence, and conviction, which should be an awesome sight to behold... and give a galvanisation similar to what we saw in the blood elves when the Sunwell was restored or the DRaenei when they found a new home and strong allies in Azeroth and her denizens. Or the orcs when they foudn their purpose and their ancestral roots after the slavery of the intermittent camps - it's like a reboot, with freshenergy and zeal, one that shouuld see the arcane element /aspects of the night elvs grow to the same level of influence as the priesthood and the druids.. which with the nightborne and Suramar, they should have the numbers to make that happen.

It's not Tyrande and Malfurion that are the problem, and they don't need to die to have any of this happen, in fact they are essential part in the diversity and development of the group, just no longer the only parts to it, with Illidan, Thalyssra, Farondis all playing major roles.

There is also Elune - Elune could work miracles, like restoringthe Court of Farondis to life, and/or rre-firing the nightwell into a font of pure silver arcane energy, telling the nightborne and the night elves that thier actions (dissipating the nightwell and going 10k years without magic) have proved that they are no longer slaves to it, but now true masters of it, their training is complete, and they should embrace every talent and aspeact of their heritage for the war against the shadow to come.

I'd like to see much more of that too. Blizzard haven't properly represented the night elves in wow, and there is definitely a place for the nightborne amongst them. Take stormwind, what are druids doing in a city anyway? They are outdoor folk, and the Priesthood would either be in the Cathedral of Stormwind mixing with the other priests, or the sentinel/huntresses with the city guard. Not lopped up in the park. No the ideal night elf representation in Stormwind would be the nightborne now they've returned, they are the ones that love cities, have a civilization and can be the face of the night elves in Dalaran, Stormwind and other cities. This they can do both in the horde and alliance.

Ideally this is the role the highborne should be playing, because I strongly feel the nightborne arefar more night elf thing. Naga-elf should that thing ever happen or the naga themselves, that's more a blood elf thing given how Suramar Elves (Elisande, Malfurion, Tyrande, Jarod, Thalyssra etc) all stood against Azshara and Zin'Azshari. Whereas the high elves are Zin'Azshari palace highborne cescendants, same as the naga. Meanwhile its the highborne of Dire Maul who are a pure highborne group (unlike the nightborne) that should be building bridges between night elf and blood elf.

still I don't see why the nightborne should or would hate the blood elves. The best way for this to work, is for the Broken Isle night elven group be led by the Nightborne in Suramar, and continue in the neutral vein all the night zones have been in. i.e. a neutral night elven kingdom separate to the alliance one. Out of this a few nightborne can join either the alliance or the horde or both. But the story development of the Suramar kingdom is neutral and it is concerned with rebuilding the Kaldorei civilization and helping the world. I can see the Wardens, Demon hunters, Court of Farondis, Dreamers all being a part of this neutral night elven kingdom that has dealings with both the alliance and the horde.

Just because it is night elven doesn't mean it has to be firmly with either of the factions. Ultimately it is awesome to have night elf option that is beyond the petty squabbles of the horde and alliance. THe alliance night elves may have needed the alliance to survive, but the Suramar Isles ones do not - they are a far more balanced group as they have the arcane (nightborne), nature (dreamers), the divine (priesthood incl Cathedral of eternal night), martial (wardens), and fel/chaos wielders for good (demon hunters).

it's far more balanced, and the majority of the people there are 10k year old ancients and would have a far more mature and pragmatic approach to the horde/alliance conflict which they do not know and have not been caught up in

[Destinas]

-yeah right, snip-

Yeah, I'm aware of elven lore. In this case I could have been a bit more clear, though you analyzed my meaning of the word "related" a bit too literally. I meant "related" in a non-familial way. As in, "they have a connection due to the Night Elves and Shen'dralar Highborne being part of the Alliance as well as the Blood Elves once being Highborne themselves, so they easily have a way to be integrated into either culture as a neutral subrace." But okay.

[mingarrubia]

they will be just another faction that will disappear next expansion

Exactly

/10chars

[ravenmoon]

nah, they are too important to disappear

[Al Gorefiend]

it's the human looking forsaken that i would give the vampire twist too, it spices them up a bit and gives them an edge almost like there is more to them than just human.

"Human" as a Forsaken subrace would be amazing!

I pictured this before actually. My headcanon is that they are ex-Cult of the Damned members, throwing their lot in with Sylvanas

[Mace]

whiles what you are saying makes sense, I have to object to how you phrased the relationship. it's not that nightborne are related to both night elves and blood elves, NIGHTBORNE ARE the night elves of Suramar. They are not related to them, they are the same people who started their lives fully night elven, but have been altered a little bit by the nightwell. They are not descendants or some different group, they are the original Kaldorei empire group. They were not all highborne either, some of them were, but know that this is the night elf the highborne still consider as night elf.

It's important in recognises that though the larget night elf group has followed a very different path to the arcane culture, this culture is not dead but still very much alive in the highborne of Dire Maul and the nightborne of Suramar. IT is a night elven arcane culture. I add the arcane to distinguish it from the night elves you play who are now reforming their society from a purely nature one as elements from their past return to them free of their corruption but not of their convictions. This is an important statement.

Important because it helps frame the identity of the nightborne and highborne as every bit night elven as the alliance kaldorei. Know that it is a facet and identity of the night elves and shows you that there is more than one way that night elves live. This is something wow didn't show. It seldom showed you the non-druid lifestyle of the night elves as the priesthood and sneintel life was rarely ever seen. The arcane side was only briefly touched upon in cataclysm. In Legion we see a lot more of the other parts. We see the arcane side, the kaldorei empire in its glory state in Suramar and the nightborne show you what living kaldorei arcane culture is like - this is not blood elf culture, the blood elves are descended from night elves, but after their exile from Malfurion's surviving group they built their own culture. You see similarities to the kaldorei empire, because they were originally kaldorei empire elves so although manything changed, there are also many similarities, and blizzard has to show this, because there is a link.

But because there is a link and you see how they are connected, shouldn't cuse you to think that nightborne are blood elves or nightborne are related to night elves like blood elves are. It's more intimate than that, nightborne are the arcane night elves, whereas Azsuna shows you the effects of the devastation of the sundering on the night elves in an updated form, far more detail than deoslace or ashenvale r Feralas showed you. Legion doesn't stop with the arcane presenation of the night elves because it greatly expands on the Wardens which were completely absent from wow, even during the Hyjal zone done in cataclysm. We also see the sentinels in action largely in SUramar 7.1 but a little bit in Val'sharah in the Ysera death scene. Finally we see greatly expanded the demon hunter side of the night elves, and whiles this is not really presented as part of the night elves ( it has blood elves too remember), it very much is much larger than earlier presentations (the 1 guy in nagrand, the 1 guy in Felwood and the 1 guy in Blasted lands) they are now full fledged group that is shaping the destiny of th world, like the Wardens, the nightborne, the court of FArondis and to a lesser extent the Moonguard.

- - - Updated - - -

Priests and druids I can easily see happening for the nightborne. Certainly priests, I can understand why they've had no preists for 10k years, seeing that the High Priestess took all of them from Suramar to march on Azshara, so there were none left to guide those who were under the shield when it went up and stayed up.

Now its down, and the high priestess herself has returned, along with the Cathedral of Eternal Night being liberated, it's fair to say that the faith nightborne interested in religion would pick up again would be Elune and the actions would have inspired afew totake thatpath. It is worth also noting that the nightborne have the ELune faith, they just don't have anyone dedicated to worshipping her as the priests do. It's just like our society where many people are Christian but are not Christian like the church folk are, they believe in the reality of God and Jesus but are not active followers.

Occuleth mentions with longing in his voice about remembering the prayers that use to go up to Elune at the temple of Falanaar. Whiles he is not a religious elf, it doesn't mean he does not believe in Elune. The nightborne are night elves remember, they did not cast off anything Kaldorei like the high elves did when Malfurion exiled them. They basically continued exactly in the state the kaldorei empire was butunder Elisande's leadership instead of Azshara's (so a political re-organization, with an order head, like a university Chancellor leading them instead of a monarch). The exact same attitudes good, bad, ugly or beautiful can stil be seen here 10k years later, it is safe to assume belief but not necessarily devotion to the goddess still remains. Her shrines are still beautifully decorated and tended, with flowers and a lot of reverence to those lost in the war of the anceitns defending Suramar and fighting Azshara and the demons.

This speaks to belief in Elune still there, just not any devotion. Something the return of the high priestess will facilitiate.

As for druids, well we can see that too, the like of high botanist Tel'am is not isolated, we saw a ton of nature loving nightborne in that section, and if those were the evil ones, there must be tons of good ones too in the rest of the populace. They'd be very thrilled about being able to see the outdoors, the stars, and the forests, and would be very much interested in the Valewalker order which is a mix of druids and mages. I can see them also fascinated and eager to learn from the druids especially when they hear of the world shifting feats their mastery of magic has achieved (like growing Teldrassil, regrowing entire forests, cloaking an entire continent in mist, suppressing arcane magic continent wide) these aren't small feats, and add to that winning the 2nd burning legion invasion by defeating Archimonde.


I'd like to see much more of that too. Blizzard haven't properly represented the night elves in wow, and there is definitely a place for the nightborne amongst them. Take stormwind, what are druids doing in a city anyway? They are outdoor folk, and the Priesthood would either be in the Cathedral of Stormwind mixing with the other priests, or the sentinel/huntresses with the city guard. Not lopped up in the park. No the ideal night elf representation in Stormwind would be the nightborne now they've returned, they are the ones that love cities, have a civilization and can be the face of the night elves in Dalaran, Stormwind and other cities. This they can do both in the horde and alliance.

Ideally this is the role the highborne should be playing, snip

I like the idea of nightborne having a separate night elf kingdom of the broken isle night elven groups, and those guys continuing to be neutral to both horde and alliance. And if they become playable, have only a small group of individuals align themselves, and that they can go both ways, or the alliance, just not only the horde. Still I think it would be good that their horde/alliance alignment is a minor aspect, - something like the group only going into the horde and alliance to actually bring the elves together and watch oer the younger races so that they don't repeat the mistakes of the nighte ls and to make ure they are rady to fight bigger threats rather than themselves..

I would like to see a council involving Thalyssra, Ly'leth Lunastre, Valewalker Farodin, Jarod Shadwsong, Prince Farondis along with Mordant Evene from thealliance and Liadrin from the horde - where they seek to watch over the races Azeroth to protect Azeroth from them ld they go bad, and to inspire them to fight the evil forces long before they grow as large as Azshara did or example.

To this effect, the nightborne who lead the night elves of the Broken Isles, said representatives to join both the horde and alliance via the night elves and the blood elves.

This keeps the focus of the nightborne as t elven focus and not a horde and alliance focus, this the vein the night elves should have been in, and I feel the nightborne broken isle night elves are the group to continue on in this vein or dedicated to this vein.