Austria bans the burqua

[Deleted]

"Man Germany is so evil for making it illegal to be a Nazi, haven't they ever heard of free speech?"
"Austria tells people what they can and can't wear? Wooo hooo! About time!"
-Frequently the same people.

Making it illegal to "be" or say something specific isn't the same as making it illegal to cover up your face in public. For everyone.

[Pannonian]

"Man Germany is so evil for making it illegal to be a Nazi, haven't they ever heard of free speech?"

"Austria tells people what they can and can't wear? Wooo hooo! About time!"

-Frequently the same people.

As Austria has similar laws regarding Nazis and a lot of people on MMOC get this wrong, let me explain: it isn't illegal to be a Nazi in either country.

Happy to help.

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How many women are affected by the burqua law here in Austria? Maybe 100-300? Minority of the population and so much attention...

here something funny yesterday: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...burka-ban-law/

Turns out this was actually a publictiy stunt. The same company that hired the shark obviously called the police, which then had to act... well played... a lot of attention (all around the world) for free. At least the law made a profit for someone...

Only found links in german so far: http://diepresse.com/home/kultur/med...wohl-selbst-an
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Making it illegal to "be" or say something specific isn't the same as making it illegal to cover up your face in public. For everyone.

But to be fair, this law was brought up as a burqa ban, was debated as a burqa ban, was sold as burqa ban, but only was made into law banning face covers, because banning religious garments specifically would never hold before the constitutional court. The original intent is quite clear on the law, and no politician involved ever denied it. Kinda infuriating if politicians make laws they know are against the constitution, but word them in a way to find a legal loophole.


Though its still a bad comparison, as being a Nazi isn't illegal.

[Ahovv]

1) Burqa ban is retarded.

2) Anyone wearing a burqa in a free society is either brainwashed or trolling.

[Mormolyce]

As Austria has similar laws regarding Nazis and a lot of people on MMOC get this wrong, let me explain: it isn't illegal to be a Nazi in either country.

Happy to help.

Oh, I'm not trying to imply that they're right about any of it.

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Making it illegal to "be" or say something specific isn't the same as making it illegal to cover up your face in public. For everyone.

Incorrect, they are both First Amendment issues.

[Freighter]

Incorrect, they are both First Amendment issues.

USA isn't Austria so how is first amendment even relevant there?

[Mormolyce]

USA isn't Austria so how is first amendment even relevant there?

He didn't say he was only talking about Austria:

Making it illegal to "be" or say something specific isn't the same as making it illegal to cover up your face in public. For everyone.

[Xarkan]

He didn't say he was only talking about Austria:

Regardless both can be freedom of expression issues..

[Deleted]

Looks like Denmark is going to do the same:


Denmark burka ban: country poised to ban Islamic face veils in crackdown on 'masking'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a3653526.html

Switzerland is looking into it as well:

Switzerland announces referendum on whether to ban the burka
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...urkan-ban.html

[melodramocracy]

<-- ok with this.

[Pannonian]

Austria doesn't exactly have the best record when it comes to religious tolerance.

Are you talking about the people or the laws? If you meant people, no further question. If you're talking about laws, please elaborate.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but looks like the law could be challenged.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...d/2016/austria

As mentioned 4 or 5 times already, while they wanted to target religious veils, they're aware they cannot just ban religious clothings, but they banned covering your face in public generally. On which base do you think it will get challenged?

[Deleted]

How many women are affected by the burqua law here in Austria? Maybe 100-300? Minority of the population and so much attention...

here something funny yesterday: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...burka-ban-law/

I'm sure there are more than 300. The law has less to do with religion, and more with the modern threat of terrorism. Islamic and domestic alike (yeah, black bloc people aka Antifa). Also it helps against medical and welfare fraud.

[Deleted]

I'm sure there are more than 300. The law has less to do with religion, and more with the modern threat of terrorism. Islamic and domestic alike (yeah, black bloc people aka Antifa). Also it helps against medical and welfare fraud.

It's estimated that around 150 women in Austria wear full-face veils.

[Edge-]

I'm sure there are more than 300. The law has less to do with religion, and more with the modern threat of terrorism. Islamic and domestic alike (yeah, black bloc people aka Antifa). Also it helps against medical and welfare fraud.

How many of the known terror attacks in the West were carried out by masked attackers?

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm legitimately curious.

[Mayhem]

I'm sure there are more than 300. The law has less to do with religion, and more with the modern threat of terrorism. Islamic and domestic alike (yeah, black bloc people aka Antifa). Also it helps against medical and welfare fraud.

Well, you sure are wrong.

[Deleted]

@Endus

Ruh Roh - looks like YOUR country (well at least Quebec) is heading down the same path - at least it is the start.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/19/quebec-lawmakers-pass-religious-neutrality-law-requiring-citizens-to-uncover-faces.html

"Quebec lawmakers pass bill requiring citizens to uncover faces"

Lawmakers in the Canadian province of Quebec adopted a religious neutrality law Wednesday that would require citizens to uncover their faces during state services. But critics say the bill unfairly targets Muslim women.

The law -- said to be the first of its kind in North America -- calls for a ban on any face coverings for people giving or receiving a service from the state and it also proposes guidelines on how authorities should go about making accommodations based on religious beliefs.

The Quebec National Assembly passed Bill 62 in a 66-to-51 vote.

[Zython]

Making it illegal to "be" or say something specific isn't the same as making it illegal to cover up your face in public. For everyone.

"Authoritarianism is only bad if it's targeted at white people."

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It's estimated that around 150 women in Austria wear full-face veils.

If the "problem" is that small, why even make the law to begin with?

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Interesting. Gotta love the progressive Euros. The US should follow their lead.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...too/699273001/

Nothing screams "progressivism" like secular authoritarianism.

[Deleted]

If the "problem" is that small, why even make the law to begin with?

Because for most people who are in favour of the law, it's a matter of principle I suppose. Especially since numbers can change.
Plus, like I wrote earlier: Austria had elections last weekend, and pushing for the ban was a good way of appealing to potential voters given how popular the general idea was/is.

[Endus]

@Endus

Ruh Roh - looks like YOUR country (well at least Quebec) is heading down the same path - at least it is the start.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/19/quebec-lawmakers-pass-religious-neutrality-law-requiring-citizens-to-uncover-faces.html

"Quebec lawmakers pass bill requiring citizens to uncover faces"

You expect me to back that because it's in Canada, or something?

It's wrong, and likely to get overturned by the Supreme Court, much as an earlier case in 2006 was; https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/sc...em/15/index.do

A 12-year old Sikh boy was told he couldn't wear his kirpan to school (it's a knife), because it was a "dangerous weapon", according to Quebec law. The Supreme Court overturned that, rightly, because religious freedoms could not and should not be so restricted.

The same will likely apply here, since there's even less justification for this burqa/niqab ban. It's not Quebec's first time at this rodeo, and they don't have a good history of winning, when push comes to shove.

The fact remains; the only real reason people take issue with burqa/niqap is the "women are forced to wear it, by their family/culture". Well, forcing them to NOT wear it is the same damn oppression, just in the other direction.

[Deleted]

You expect me to back that because it's in Canada, or something?

LOl - fuck no. I expect nothing of the sort from you. Just pointing out it is happening in your backyard

[Endus]

LOl - fuck no. I expect nothing of the sort from you. Just pointing out it is happening in your backyard

So your entire point for bringing it up was to effectively shout "Hey, Endus, NEENER NEENER!"

Okay, I guess. It's more than a little silly.